HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

[TOR] Maple Leafs extend Phil Kessel (8 years, $8M AAV) [Mod Warning Post #737]

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-03-2013, 01:30 PM
  #726
GordieHoweHatTrick
Registered User
 
GordieHoweHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 13,133
vCash: 500
Even if Ryan were grittier, its not enough to make up for the fact that Phil Kessel is a superior offensive weapon. Ryan seems to have stagnated at 60-70 point player while Kessel has evolved into a PPG player capable of scoring goals, or drawing defenders and making plays for his teammates. I have no doubt Ryan will have a great statistical season if he plays with a healthy Spezza all year but hes the type of player that needs to play with a superior player like Spezza to elevate his point totals to around the PPG mark. Otherwise hes a 30+ goal, 60-70 point guy, which isn't bad at all.

GordieHoweHatTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 05:50 PM
  #727
Quares27
Registered User
 
Quares27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,975
vCash: 500
Ryan is gritty now? people have ripped him for years for being soft as dog ****

Quares27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 01:31 AM
  #728
Joe Sakic
Goodbye ROR
 
Joe Sakic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 3,860
vCash: 500
How can people complain or say this is a bad deal? This is what top players are getting paid under the new CBA - just look at the Getzlaf and Perry deals.

Besides, if the Leafs didn't pay him this, someone else certainly would have and they weren't about to just let their nest player walk.

Joe Sakic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 06:44 AM
  #729
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 29,642
vCash: 500
Jvr and ryan, the two #2picks, have been pretty comparable the past couple years.

The sen to compare kessel to is spezza, except 5 yrs younger and without a degenerative back problem.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 11:05 AM
  #730
LordRamsay
Come out and flay
 
LordRamsay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 905
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsFan20 View Post
Besides, if the Leafs didn't pay him this, someone else certainly would have and they weren't about to just let their best player walk.
Welp, this just about sums it up.

LordRamsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 01:29 PM
  #731
Ballgarath
Registered User
 
Ballgarath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 238
vCash: 500
i really didnt think kessel would sign in toronto but im obviously wrong. good on nonis for getting it done and good on phil for signing on with a great canadian team " still hate the leafs". its a lot of money but players like kessel dont come around much so you pay them and worry about the rest later i guess.

Ballgarath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 01:33 PM
  #732
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Jvr and ryan, the two #2picks, have been pretty comparable the past couple years.

The sen to compare kessel to is spezza, except 5 yrs younger and without a degenerative back problem.

Oh, please. How many 30 goal seasons has JVR had? In fact, how many seasons has he had with over 40 points? Ryan had 4 consecutive 30+ goal seasons before the lockout year. JVR's career high is 20. Saying they are comparable is an absolute joke.

Heck, Ryan has scored more goals than Kessel in two of the last four seasons, and he would have done it in a third season if he was not injured. In Kessel's breakout year, Ryan was on pace for over 40.

Speeza's career high is 92 points. Remind me again - how many 90 point season has Kessel had?


But, I guess I must be posting all these actual statistics because I am another Leaf hater.


Kessel is a gifted young offensive player with huge upside. I would easily put him at the same level as John Tavares and Matt Duchene as far as longterm potential is concerned. But, to have him in an entirely different league than Ryan and equate him to Speeza is way beyond the actual facts.

__________________
Man, do I ever miss Oleg Kvasha. If Oleg was here, everything would be OK.

Last edited by Darth Milbury: 10-04-2013 at 01:44 PM.
Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:13 PM
  #733
Brewsky
King Of The Ice Mugs
 
Brewsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: King County
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,098
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Brewsky Send a message via AIM to Brewsky Send a message via MSN to Brewsky Send a message via Yahoo to Brewsky Send a message via Skype™ to Brewsky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Oh, please. How many 30 goal seasons has JVR had? In fact, how many seasons has he had with over 40 points? Ryan had 4 consecutive 30+ goal seasons before the lockout year. JVR's career high is 20. Saying they are comparable is an absolute joke.

Heck, Ryan has scored more goals than Kessel in two of the last four seasons, and he would have done it in a third season if he was not injured. In Kessel's breakout year, Ryan was on pace for over 40.

Speeza's career high is 92 points. Remind me again - how many 90 point season has Kessel had?


But, I guess I must be posting all these actual statistics because I am another Leaf hater.


Kessel is a gifted young offensive player with huge upside. I would easily put him at the same level as John Tavares and Matt Duchene as far as longterm potential is concerned. But, to have him in an entirely different league than Ryan and equate him to Speeza is way beyond the actual facts.
Even as a Leafs fan I'll admit, Spezza is better than Kessel right now, he's just more consistent, but Spezza hasn't played a full season in how long?

And I'd take Kessel above Ryan easily.

Brewsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:17 PM
  #734
Sportserie
Registered User
 
Sportserie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 2,866
vCash: 500
Congrats Leaf fans for this huge signing!

Sportserie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:17 PM
  #735
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
Even as a Leafs fan I'll admit, Spezza is better than Kessel right now, he's just more consistent, but Spezza hasn't played a full season in how long?

And I'd take Kessel above Ryan easily.
In terms of market value, I would expect Kessel to have more for the exact reason you describe.

I'd take Ryan above Kessel, but I totally respect the logic that others have offered here. There is no doubt that Kessel's offensive upside is higher (or at least I don't doubt it).

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #736
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 29,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Oh, please. How many 30 goal seasons has JVR had? In fact, how many seasons has he had with over 40 points? Ryan had 4 consecutive 30+ goal seasons before the lockout year. JVR's career high is 20. Saying they are comparable is an absolute joke.

Heck, Ryan has scored more goals than Kessel in two of the last four seasons, and he would have done it in a third season if he was not injured. In Kessel's breakout year, Ryan was on pace for over 40.

Speeza's career high is 92 points. Remind me again - how many 90 point season has Kessel had?


But, I guess I must be posting all these actual statistics because I am another Leaf hater.


Kessel is a gifted young offensive player with huge upside. I would easily put him at the same level as John Tavares and Matt Duchene as far as longterm potential is concerned. But, to have him in an entirely different league than Ryan and equate him to Speeza is way beyond the actual facts.
Stop living in the past, man.

Each team has one player that is a consistent threat to finish top-10 in league scoring each year. That's Kessel and Spezza.

Ryan is not challenging for top-10 in league scoring anytime soon, and anyone trying to compare him to the 4th highest scorer in hockey over the past 2 seasons is obviously a homer.

I know you think it's objective of you to believe that both Ryan and Spezza are going to magically have career best years this year, but that's silly homer talk.

And here's how they've done the last 2 seasons, the most relevent recent sample:


C J.Spezza (30): 85gms, 36gls, 89pts, 28ht, 25bk, 19:51 (82gms, 35gls, 86pts, 27ht, 24bk)
W P.Kessel (26): 130gms, 57gls, 134pts, 28ht, 44bk, 19:57 (82gms, 36gls, 85pts, 18ht, 28bk)

W B.Ryan (26): 128gms, 42gls, 87pts, 193ht, 53bk, 17:43 (82gms, 27gls, 56pts, 124ht, 34bk)
W J.VanRiemsdyk (24): 91gms, 29gls, 56pts, 92ht, 33bk, 17:15 (82gms, 26gls, 51pts, 83ht, 30bk)


it's clear which players are most similar at this point in time.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:30 PM
  #737
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Country: Tibet
Posts: 18,449
vCash: 500
Anymore generalizations about fanbases will result in an infraction. Knock it off.

LatvianTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:35 PM
  #738
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Stop living in the past, man.

Each team has one player that is a consistent threat to finish top-10 in league scoring each year. That's Kessel and Spezza.

Ryan is not challenging for top-10 in league scoring anytime soon, and anyone trying to compare him to the 4th highest scorer in hockey over the past 2 seasons is obviously a homer.

I know you think it's objective of you to believe that both Ryan and Spezza are going to magically have career best years this year, but that's silly homer talk.
It would be nice if you could have an intelligent discussion without stooping to insults or screaming about bias.

I am not a Senator fan. I am Islander fan. I do not like the Sens or the Leafs so its not clear how there is any "homerism" in my post. I am simply looking at two players on opposing teams that I happen to think quite highly of, and identifying the one that I see as being the better overall player.

I don't think Ryan will have more points than Kessel. Ryan is not much of a playmaker, nor will his linemates (like Speeza) be big goal scorers. I do think he can easily have more goals than Kessel and I believe he will display a more rounded game overall. So, if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Ryan.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:40 PM
  #739
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 29,642
vCash: 500
Kessel and Spezza (when he's healthy) consistently challenge for top-10 scoring in the league.

Ryan is nowhere remotely close.

the comparison is awful.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:51 PM
  #740
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Kessel and Spezza (when he's healthy) consistently challenge for top-10 scoring in the league.

Ryan is nowhere remotely close.

the comparison is awful.
Yeah, Kessel "regularly" challenges for the top 10 as in doing it twice.

And, the "not remotely close" Ryan has scored goals at a better pace than Kessel in three of the last five seasons.

Funny, how a guy who can score more goals than Kessel is not even "remotely close" to him offensively.

And, all that gets away from my earlier point. I in now way, shape, or form implied that Ryan would score more points than Kessel. I said he was the better overall player.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 02:55 PM
  #741
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
It would be nice if you could have an intelligent discussion without stooping to insults or screaming about bias.

I am not a Senator fan. I am Islander fan. I do not like the Sens or the Leafs so its not clear how there is any "homerism" in my post. I am simply looking at two players on opposing teams that I happen to think quite highly of, and identifying the one that I see as being the better overall player.

I don't think Ryan will have more points than Kessel. Ryan is not much of a playmaker, nor will his linemates (like Speeza) be big goal scorers. I do think he can easily have more goals than Kessel and I believe he will display a more rounded game overall. So, if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Ryan.
I think that this year will truly define what you have in Bobby Ryan. When Ryan was in Anaheim, he wasn't facing the other teams top shutdown pairing every night. He was getting the 2nd pairing treatment. Now that he's in Ottawa and will get a much bigger role and will be tested.

showtime8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:00 PM
  #742
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
I think that this year will truly define what you have in Bobby Ryan. When Ryan was in Anaheim, he wasn't facing the other teams top shutdown pairing every night. He was getting the 2nd pairing treatment. Now that he's in Ottawa and will get a much bigger role and will be tested.
Yup.

He will be the go to guy in a way he hasn't had to be in the past.

And, btw, this is the exact reason I don't buy the earlier posts that label Kessel soft. Going into a pressure cooker like Toronto, being asked to be the man, and then coming through in grand fashion, is not something a player can do without a lot of mental toughness.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:09 PM
  #743
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 29,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Yeah, Kessel "regularly" challenges for the top 10 as in doing it twice.
hilarious. are you really going with an "he's only finished top-10 in scoring TWICE" argument? you know how silly that sounds, don't you?

do you know how many times spezza has finished top-10 in scoring? Do you know how many players in the league have finished top-10 in scoring MORE than twice?

Quote:
And, the "not remotely close" Ryan has scored goals at a better pace than Kessel in three of the last five seasons.

Funny, how a guy who can score more goals than Kessel is not even "remotely close" to him offensively.

And, all that gets away from my earlier point. I in now way, shape, or form implied that Ryan would score more points than Kessel. I said he was the better overall player.
If you pretend that the last TWO SEASONS never happened, then yes, Kessel and Ryan are very comparable.

Ryan is not remotely close in quality to the 4th highest scorer in hockey over the last 2 seasons.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #744
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Yeah, Kessel "regularly" challenges for the top 10 as in doing it twice.

And, the "not remotely close" Ryan has scored goals at a better pace than Kessel in three of the last five seasons.

Funny, how a guy who can score more goals than Kessel is not even "remotely close" to him offensively.

And, all that gets away from my earlier point. I in now way, shape, or form implied that Ryan would score more points than Kessel. I said he was the better overall player.
Thats not entirely fair, players like Clarkson can score 20-25 goals but are only 40 point players, they arent necessarily strong offensive players despite their high goal totals. Therefore you cant say Ryan scores similar amount of goals therefore he is an equivalent offensive talent, because that simply isnt true, Ryan doesnt have the vision, playmaking or speed that Kessel has. In more recent years, Kessel has been a Spezza comparable while Ryan is slightly behind as a fringe 1st line solid 2nd liner.

The Podium is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:22 PM
  #745
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Thats not entirely fair, players like Clarkson can score 20-25 goals but are only 40 point players, they arent necessarily strong offensive players despite their high goal totals. Therefore you cant say Ryan scores similar amount of goals therefore he is an equivalent offensive talent, because that simply isnt true, Ryan doesnt have the vision, playmaking or speed that Kessel has.
Ryan doesn't have vision, speed, or playmaking as Kessel, that is true.

He has been a better goal scorer over the last five seasons though, is better defensively, and is far more physically active.

He is the better overall player. Essentially, the only domain in which Kessel is superior is playmaking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
In more recent years, Kessel has been a Spezza comparable while Ryan is slightly behind as a fringe 1st line solid 2nd liner.
We will see how it goes in the coming year. I think Ryan will probably have more goals than Kessel, maybe 10 to 15 fewer points overall, and be the better overall player.

That's pretty consistent with the pattern for both guys over the last years.

And, I don't see the Clarkson comparison as remotely relevant. Ryan doesn't score 40 points a year, he is annually in the 60 - 70 point range, and at his best approaches a 70 point pace. At his best, Kessel has been in the 80 point range. The 10 to 15 point difference between the two guys (which is all about Kessel's superior playmaking) does not make-up for Ryan's slightly better goal scoring, more physical game, and better defense.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:33 PM
  #746
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Ryan doesn't have vision, speed, or playmaking as Kessel, that is true.

He has been a better goal scorer over the last five seasons though, is better defensively, and is far more physically active.

He is the better overall player. Essentially, the only domain in which Kessel is superior is playmaking.




We will see how it goes in the coming year. I think Ryan will probably have more goals than Kessel, maybe 10 to 15 fewer points overall, and be the better overall player.

That's pretty consistent with the pattern for both guys over the last years.

And, I don't see the Clarkson comparison as remotely relevant. Ryan doesn't score 40 points a year, he is annually in the 60 - 70 point range, and at his best approaches a 70 point pace. At his best, Kessel has been in the 80 point range. The 10 to 15 point difference between the two guys (which is all about Kessel's superior playmaking) does not make-up for Ryan's slightly better goal scoring, more physical game, and better defense.
I dont necessarily agree with the better goal scoring, the difference is negligible and can be accounted for by the better linemates. His goal scoring dropped below Kessels (albeit slightly) when he was moved off Getzlafs line, so we can assume that with a true #1 C Kessel could amass an additional 4-5 goals putting him in line with Ryans totals. At the very least the two are equal calibre goal scorers.

Ryans defensive game and grittiness is overblown, sure he is better but hes not among the league leaders in these categories and these strengths are not utilized by the team (PK for example), so it isnt some game breaking aspect of his games that will make up the gap between offensive output.

Clarkson was used to prove that goal scoring doesnt always suggest a strong offensive player which was sort of what you argued in your previous post

The Podium is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:35 PM
  #747
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 29,642
vCash: 500
Most top-10 scoring finishes, active leaders:

1. J.Jagr (41): 11
2. T.Selanne (43): 7
3. A.Ovechkin (28): 6
4. S.Crosby (26): 5
4. J.Thornton (34): 5
4. M.St.Louis (38): 5
7. S.Stamkos (23): 4
7. J.Iginla (36): 4
9. E.Malkin (27): 3
9. D.Heatley (32): 3
9. H.Sedin (33): 3
9. B.Richards (33): 3
9. P.Datsyuk (35): 3
9. P.Elias (37): 3
9. D.Alfredsson (41): 3
16. P.Kane (25): 2
16. P.Kessel (26): 2
16. N.Backstrom (26): 2
16. R.Getzlaf (28): 2
16. J.Spezza (30): 2
16. V.Lecavalier (33): 2
16. M.Hossa (34): 2
16. T.Bertuzzi (38): 2

That is the complete list of active players that have finished top-10 in scoring twice or more in their careers. 23 players in all of hockey right now. 14 of them are 32 or older and clearly well past their best before date.

Only Stamkos and Kane are younger than Kessel.

The only players to finish top-10 in scoring in each of the last two seasons? Stamkos and Kessel.


And you actually are going to try and pretend that finishing top-10 in scoring the past two years isn't a huge deal?


Last edited by Kane One: 10-04-2013 at 07:39 PM.
zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:39 PM
  #748
T M L
Sense of Entitlement
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 500
Kessel will score 40+ goals this season.

Book it!

T M L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:47 PM
  #749
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
I dont necessarily agree with the better goal scoring, the difference is negligible and can be accounted for by the better linemates. His goal scoring dropped below Kessels (albeit slightly) when he was moved off Getzlafs line, so we can assume that with a true #1 C Kessel could amass an additional 4-5 goals putting him in line with Ryans totals. At the very least the two are equal calibre goal scorers.
Oh, I don't think the two are very different. I believe they'll both get in the 30 - 40 range next season. The point is that the idea that Kessel is in an entirely different league offensively doesn't hold up. Ryan is as good or better a goal scorer, and Kessel is a better playmaker. Because there are two assists handed out for every goal,playmakers always have more points than scorers. So, to me, the points difference between the players is not all that meaningful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Ryans defensive game and grittiness is overblown, sure he is better but hes not among the league leaders in these categories and these strengths are not utilized by the team (PK for example), so it isnt some game breaking aspect of his games that will make up the gap between offensive output.

He isn't a league leader, for sure. But, a big strong winger who has over a hundred hits a year, can play in his own zone, and also score 30+ a season is a pretty rare commodity in the NHL. Kessel is simply not that well rounded a player.

I don't buy the one-dimensional soft label that some here are applying to Kessel but I also don't think he is a very complete player. At best, he is OK defensively and doesn't have any real physical game.

Kessel is "mentally tough" he is just not a power forward, and I think Ryan can play that game when he needs to.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 03:55 PM
  #750
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Oh, I don't think the two are very different. I believe they'll both get in the 30 - 40 range next season. The point is that the idea that Kessel is in an entirely different league offensively doesn't hold up. Ryan is as good or better a goal scorer, and Kessel is a better playmaker. Because there are two assists handed out for every goal,playmakers always have more points than scorers. So, to me, the points difference between the players is not all that meaningful.





He isn't a league leader, for sure. But, a big strong winger who has over a hundred hits a year, can play in his own zone, and also score 30+ a season is a pretty rare commodity in the NHL. Kessel is simply not that well rounded a player.

I don't buy the one-dimensional soft label that some here are applying to Kessel but I also don't think he is a very complete player. At best, he is OK defensively and doesn't have any real physical game.

Kessel is "mentally tough" he is just not a power forward, and I think Ryan can play that game when he needs to.
The thing is your not comparing a goal scorer to a playmaker, your comparing a goal scorer to a goalscorer who is a significantly better playmaker. A player that is just as good at passing as he is at scoring is also a rare commodity and not many players can split their points as well as Kessel can.

What I'm trying to say is that Ryan isnt a Lucic type power forward where he is physically dominant, or a Backes type power forward where he will receive Selke votes perennially, he is just average at both much like JVR is a power forward that is average at both. His defensive game and physical games are almost a non-factor as they arent to the level where it is a game-breaking aspect which is why i dont consider it as much of an advantage as Kessel's playmaking.

The Podium is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.