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Old
09-01-2013, 10:53 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
DLC... when will people ever learn...

  1. Plekanec is NOT far superior to Dubinsky. I'd take Dubs well before Pleks even if I like him.
  2. Comparing Galchenyuk's production with Johansen is being ill intent and dishonest. Look at the teams they play for.
  3. Scott Howson is no longer in Columbus as he's the assistant-GM in Edmonton. Jarmo Kekalainen is the GM in Columbus. The fact that you don't know that shows me that you know little about that franchise which raises serious questions about your knowledge of the players on that team as well.
  4. You can find late round picks in every draft that will produce more than first rounders, especially in the short term. There's a strawman if I've ever seen one!
So unless it's against the rules on this board, I was simply stating that I'd love to have him in Montreal. What's wrong with that?
1) again, fired. Really man? Dubinsky over pleks? Holy ****. This goes a long way in showing why you'd trade him for Johansen, though. At least you're consistent with your undervaluing.

2) I didn't mention point production wrt galchenyuk v. johansen. If you don't think galchenyuk isn't superior, well alright.

3) Ah yes. I slipped up on the name of the GM, despite my post history being filled with posts on how columbus will see a turnaround due to Jarmo coming in. Jarmo who was my pick for Habs GM. But slipping up a name surely implies that I A) don't know anything about their franchise and B) don't watch them play games. Surely.

The fact that you ignore any point I made in my post and mostly focused on this says more about you than it does about me.

4) I thought it was quite obvious that my mentioning gallagher's draft rank was only in response to you talking about Johansen's. Where they were drafted is pretty much irrelevent now that a few years have gone by. Next time I'll try to make it more obvious.

Who said it was against the rules? What a childish thing to say. And I'd be just as childish for asking whether disagreeing about a proposed hockey trade on a hockey forum, no less, was against the rules. I'll spare everyone else the unnecessary high school drama.

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Old
09-01-2013, 11:09 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Who said it was against the rules? What a childish thing to say. And I'd be just as childish for asking whether disagreeing about a proposed hockey trade on a hockey forum, no less, was against the rules. I'll spare everyone else the unnecessary high school drama.

And it's pretty ironic that you will save the high school drama by sparing to say that disagreeing about proposed hockey trades is not against the rules, isn't it? How do you save it and say it in the same breath?

What I'm saying is that Johansen would form a great one-two punch down the line with Galchenyuk. Both young future centermen, one left handed, the other right handed with Johansen better on faceoffs. How hard is that to understand, really? Someone suggested Plekanec, I'm saying that Columbus wouldn't do that, unless Mike Milbury becomes their GM.


Last edited by overlords: 09-01-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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09-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post

And it's pretty ironic that you will save the high school drama by sparing to say that disagreeing about proposed hockey trades is not against the rules, isn't it? How do you save it and say it in the same breath?

What I'm saying is that Johansen would form a great one-two punch down the line with Galchenyuk. Both young future centermen, one left handed, the other right handed with Johansen better on faceoffs. How hard is that to understand, really? Someone suggested Plekanec, I'm saying that Columbus wouldn't do that, unless Mike Milbury becomes their GM.
I don't think Columbus would do that either, they have a good young core and Johansen is going to be a good player for them in the long run. They have no need for Pleks as they're not contenders right now, also Plekanec is much better than Dubinsky. Whether it's defensively or offensively, Dubinsky would never be able to play the same type of minutes and produce as well as Pleks does.


Last edited by overlords: 09-01-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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Old
09-01-2013, 11:33 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
And it's pretty ironic that you will save the high school drama by sparing to say that disagreeing about proposed hockey trades is not against the rules, isn't it? How do you save it and say it in the same breath?

What I'm saying is that Johansen would form a great one-two punch down the line with Galchenyuk. Both young future centermen, one left handed, the other right handed with Johansen better on faceoffs. How hard is that to understand, really? Someone suggested Plekanec, I'm saying that Columbus wouldn't do that, unless Mike Milbury becomes their GM.
Again, I never said anything about Columbus wanting or accepting any deal. My original post was concerning how it would be awful for the habs, which you then proceded to quote and claim I was wearing rose colored glasses in my evaluation of Johansen because I wasn't in favor of it.

You haven't backed up that claim with anything other than a hilarious statement where you said you'd take dubinsky over pleks. Which would be very Milburyesque in itself.

And handedness and faceoffs are your arguments? Weak. Johansen will complement Galchenyuk because he shoots from the opposite side and is decent at faceoffs. Okay. Even if that wasn't an awful evaluation, it's still moving the goalposts on the original argument, which was whether or not pleks for johansen was an intelligent move for the habs.

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Old
09-01-2013, 12:17 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Again, I never said anything about Columbus wanting or accepting any deal. My original post was concerning how it would be awful for the habs, which you then proceded to quote and claim I was wearing rose colored glasses in my evaluation of Johansen because I wasn't in favor of it.

You haven't backed up that claim with anything other than a hilarious statement where you said you'd take dubinsky over pleks. Which would be very Milburyesque in itself.

And handedness and faceoffs are your arguments? Weak. Johansen will complement Galchenyuk because he shoots from the opposite side and is decent at faceoffs. Okay. Even if that wasn't an awful evaluation, it's still moving the goalposts on the original argument, which was whether or not pleks for johansen was an intelligent move for the habs.
I think that saying that my argument is weak or that the move would be Milburyesque is a very childish thing to say.

And I'd be just as childish for saying that thinking that Columbus would even entertain the notion of trading Johansen for Plekanec would make any sense. I'll spare everyone else the unnecessary high school drama.

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Old
09-01-2013, 12:39 PM
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
[LIST=1][*]Plekanec is NOT far superior to Dubinsky. I'd take Dubs well before Pleks even if I like him.
You might take Dubs before Pleks, but he's not even arguably the better of the two right now, and definitely never has been. I try to avoid absolutes around this board whenever possible, because so rarely do we "know for sure", but I'm droppin' one on you right there.

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09-01-2013, 02:11 PM
  #757
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Wow. Wild day on hf

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Old
09-01-2013, 03:22 PM
  #758
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Someone would take Dubinsky over Pleks?

Is this real life?

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Old
09-01-2013, 03:45 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
There is no way that Columbus trades Johansen for Plekanec one for one and if we take our rose glasses off, we should be able to recognize that. Johansen is a 6'3" top notch prospect still at the tender age of 21 (he just turned 21 in July). Former 3rd overall pick, he's defensively responsible and not bad on faceoffs. It's almost like asking if we'd take Dubinsky for Galchenyuk.
So they expect how many points by Johansen next season?
For now, his first season had a pace of 26 points and his second season is a pace of 25 points (12 points).

As far as defensive is concerned, he got 5 seconds per game on PK (12th among forwards in Columbus) but 2:19 of PP.
I guess his coach does not want to exploit his defensive skills.
Among the worst +/- of his team (-7): played often with Umberger (+3) and Foligno (+6): both have more points than him.
11th in 5-5 per 60 minutes and other numbers (Corsi, Fenwick) are worst.
Among forwards of his team: 10th in hits, 9th in blocked shots.
He got the most faceoffs in his team (at a tender age of 21) but Dubinsky is way better (and has a higher % of his team FO).

Nothing to make him great two-way player until now.
He is a good forechecker, often first in the offensive zone.
Skates well and has a good shot.

Would he still be picked 3rd if the draft would be done again (before Skinner, Fowler, Faulk, Tarasenko)?
For now, his .31 ppg is ahead of Tinordi (.25 ppg) but he has way more TOI per game than Tinordi (with significant PP TOI).

He has 5 points more than Gallagher (.63 ppg) with 63 more games.
I know that ppg is not the only stats but Gallagher +10 is third in his team.

Plekanec has 29 points in 67 games on his first NHL season (22 years old).
Career wise, has similar points as Sharp, Hemsky, Koivu and Weiss among the players drafted in 2001.
Seems that many would trade Plekanec (398 points in 598 games) for Sharp (405 points in 595 games) but both have similar stats and Plek is much better in defense.
Back in 2001, Svitov was picked third overall (6'4", 245lbs).

We may has rose glass as you say, and maybe next season will prove CLB were right to pick him in third.

Would you trade Gallagher or Galchenyuk or even Eller for Johansen?
Eller is better than Johansen in: scoring, hitting, blocking shots, PK and defensive.

To me Dubinsky <= Plekanec (BD scored 44 points once and 54 points once but great FO and tougher) but Galchenyuk >>> Johansen.

On the other hand, Johansen SCap is much lower than Plekanec.

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09-01-2013, 05:42 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You might take Dubs before Pleks, but he's not even arguably the better of the two right now, and definitely never has been. I try to avoid absolutes around this board whenever possible, because so rarely do we "know for sure", but I'm droppin' one on you right there.
Haha this post has so much irony in it.

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Old
09-01-2013, 05:56 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
DLC... when will people ever learn...

  1. Plekanec is NOT far superior to Dubinsky. I'd take Dubs well before Pleks even if I like him.
  2. Comparing Galchenyuk's production with Johansen is being ill intent and dishonest. Look at the teams they play for.
  3. Scott Howson is no longer in Columbus as he's the assistant-GM in Edmonton. Jarmo Kekalainen is the GM in Columbus. The fact that you don't know that shows me that you know little about that franchise which raises serious questions about your knowledge of the players on that team as well.
  4. You can find late round picks in every draft that will produce more than first rounders, especially in the short term. There's a strawman if I've ever seen one!
So unless it's against the rules on this board, I was simply stating that I'd love to have him in Montreal. What's wrong with that?
You're about the only one.

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Old
09-01-2013, 05:57 PM
  #762
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He was actually picked 4th in the 2010 draft, not that it really matters anyways.

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09-01-2013, 05:59 PM
  #763
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You're about the only one.
Well not quite.

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09-01-2013, 06:02 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by drakaar10iemechx2012 View Post
Well not quite.
So there's two that have no idea what they're talking about, excellent.

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09-01-2013, 06:38 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
So there's two that have no idea what they're talking about, excellent.
And you are who exactly to think you know more than me ? Just askin'

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Old
09-01-2013, 08:21 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
So they expect how many points by Johansen next season?
For now, his first season had a pace of 26 points and his second season is a pace of 25 points (12 points).

As far as defensive is concerned, he got 5 seconds per game on PK (12th among forwards in Columbus) but 2:19 of PP.
I guess his coach does not want to exploit his defensive skills.
Among the worst +/- of his team (-7): played often with Umberger (+3) and Foligno (+6): both have more points than him.
11th in 5-5 per 60 minutes and other numbers (Corsi, Fenwick) are worst.
Among forwards of his team: 10th in hits, 9th in blocked shots.
He got the most faceoffs in his team (at a tender age of 21) but Dubinsky is way better (and has a higher % of his team FO).

Nothing to make him great two-way player until now.
He is a good forechecker, often first in the offensive zone.
Skates well and has a good shot.

Would he still be picked 3rd if the draft would be done again (before Skinner, Fowler, Faulk, Tarasenko)?
For now, his .31 ppg is ahead of Tinordi (.25 ppg) but he has way more TOI per game than Tinordi (with significant PP TOI).

He has 5 points more than Gallagher (.63 ppg) with 63 more games.
I know that ppg is not the only stats but Gallagher +10 is third in his team.

Plekanec has 29 points in 67 games on his first NHL season (22 years old).
Career wise, has similar points as Sharp, Hemsky, Koivu and Weiss among the players drafted in 2001.
Seems that many would trade Plekanec (398 points in 598 games) for Sharp (405 points in 595 games) but both have similar stats and Plek is much better in defense.
Back in 2001, Svitov was picked third overall (6'4", 245lbs).

We may has rose glass as you say, and maybe next season will prove CLB were right to pick him in third.

Would you trade Gallagher or Galchenyuk or even Eller for Johansen?
Eller is better than Johansen in: scoring, hitting, blocking shots, PK and defensive.

To me Dubinsky <= Plekanec (BD scored 44 points once and 54 points once but great FO and tougher) but Galchenyuk >>> Johansen.

On the other hand, Johansen SCap is much lower than Plekanec.
Of course...



Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
So there's two that have no idea what they're talking about, excellent.
Ahhhh, the old "you dare disagreeing with me so you have no idea what you're talking about" argument. Clever.

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Old
09-01-2013, 08:43 PM
  #767
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I wonder if there would be a possibility of trading Ryan White+ for Chris Thorburn.

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09-01-2013, 08:48 PM
  #768
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I wonder if there would be a possibility of trading Ryan White+ for Chris Thorburn.
Thorburm mighr be waived at some point. Besides, White can play C. I'd never do that move.

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09-01-2013, 08:53 PM
  #769
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Thorburm mighr be waived at some point. Besides, White can play C. I'd never do that move.
True, but Thorburn is better than White in every other facet.

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09-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #770
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True, but Thorburn is better than White in every other facet.
Thats true but it leaves a hole in our 4th line. Maybe something around Moen for Thorburn and small +?

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10-05-2013, 12:06 AM
  #771
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Thought I'd bump this as I haven't seen it in a while but I have seen lots of proposals in other threads. Hopefully this will keep us from spreading our "great ideas" to the main board without a little bit of discussion first

If I'm looking to make a trade, I'm keeping my eye on the future.

Goals
- Size
- Speed
- Potential chemistry with current core players
- Peak age relative to our core players

Positional Needs
- 1st line RW (or top-6 winger)
- #2 two-way defenceman



PLAYERS I THINK WE SHOULD TARGET:

Simon Despres - LD
(22yo/ 6'4/ 215lbs) - Excellent two-way defender capable of logging big minutes in all situations.

Nino Niederreiter - LW/RW
(21yo/ 6'2/ 208lbs) - A sniper capable of playing a decent physical game, thriving in high-stress environments.

Luca Sbisa - LD
(23yo/ 6'2/ 204lbs) - Capable two-way defender capable of playing in big situations and logging big minutes.

Michael Grabner - LW/RW
(25yo/ 6'1/ 186lbs) - Incredibly fast sniper capable of changing the pace of a game and creating space with his speed and goalscoring ability.

Brandon Gormley - LD
(21yo/ 6'2/ 198lbs) - Responsible defenceman with good offensive upside and a passable shutdown game.

Kyle Okposo - RW
(25yo/ 6'0/ 212lbs) - Very tenacious skater with a high level of skill and physical ability.

Thoughts? Ideas? Other players we should target? Other age ranges or positions we should target? Potential proposals for these players?

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10-05-2013, 12:35 AM
  #772
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Plekanec >>>> Dubinsky

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10-05-2013, 01:34 AM
  #773
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
PLAYERS I THINK WE SHOULD TARGET:

Simon Despres - LD
(22yo/ 6'4/ 215lbs) - Excellent two-way defender capable of logging big minutes in all situations.

Nino Niederreiter - LW/RW
(21yo/ 6'2/ 208lbs) - A sniper capable of playing a decent physical game, thriving in high-stress environments.

Luca Sbisa - LD
(23yo/ 6'2/ 204lbs) - Capable two-way defender capable of playing in big situations and logging big minutes.

Michael Grabner - LW/RW
(25yo/ 6'1/ 186lbs) - Incredibly fast sniper capable of changing the pace of a game and creating space with his speed and goalscoring ability.

Brandon Gormley - LD
(21yo/ 6'2/ 198lbs) - Responsible defenceman with good offensive upside and a passable shutdown game.

Kyle Okposo - RW
(25yo/ 6'0/ 212lbs) - Very tenacious skater with a high level of skill and physical ability.

Thoughts? Ideas? Other players we should target? Other age ranges or positions we should target? Potential proposals for these players?
I would love to have him on team.. you would get to see like 3 breakaways each game lol

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10-05-2013, 02:30 AM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Thought I'd bump this as I haven't seen it in a while but I have seen lots of proposals in other threads. Hopefully this will keep us from spreading our "great ideas" to the main board without a little bit of discussion first

If I'm looking to make a trade, I'm keeping my eye on the future.

Goals
- Size
- Speed
- Potential chemistry with current core players
- Peak age relative to our core players

Positional Needs
- 1st line RW (or top-6 winger)
- #2 two-way defenceman



PLAYERS I THINK WE SHOULD TARGET:

Simon Despres - LD
(22yo/ 6'4/ 215lbs) - Excellent two-way defender capable of logging big minutes in all situations.

Nino Niederreiter - LW/RW
(21yo/ 6'2/ 208lbs) - A sniper capable of playing a decent physical game, thriving in high-stress environments.

Luca Sbisa - LD
(23yo/ 6'2/ 204lbs) - Capable two-way defender capable of playing in big situations and logging big minutes.

Michael Grabner - LW/RW
(25yo/ 6'1/ 186lbs) - Incredibly fast sniper capable of changing the pace of a game and creating space with his speed and goalscoring ability.

Brandon Gormley - LD
(21yo/ 6'2/ 198lbs) - Responsible defenceman with good offensive upside and a passable shutdown game.

Kyle Okposo - RW
(25yo/ 6'0/ 212lbs) - Very tenacious skater with a high level of skill and physical ability.

Thoughts? Ideas? Other players we should target? Other age ranges or positions we should target? Potential proposals for these players?
Great post. I've been saying for months now that Bergy will have to make some key trades in order to support our core starting next year.

FA market sucks, and drafts are a gamble.

Bergy needs to trade, starters and prospects, starting this deadline.

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10-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  #775
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Originally Posted by Vi Nc E x13x View Post
I would love to have him on team.. you would get to see like 3 breakaways each game lol
My only concern is his lack of a physical game and his defensive commitment. If we're getting him just to score goals, he's a beauty, if we're wanting to keep balancing our forward group with size, then he doesn't really help us that way. I think we've got room for him in the future to be a good speed guy, we don't look like we're going to be very small in the coming years.

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Grabner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Great post. I've been saying for months now that Bergy will have to make some key trades in order to support our core starting next year.

FA market sucks, and drafts are a gamble.

Bergy needs to trade, starters and prospects, starting this deadline.
Thanks, it looks like we're on the same page! It seems the only way to compete for the cup these days is to create a strong core and have a cup window, there aren't really many other options or lucky breaks. I think step one should be to get our core in place by whatever means necessary and then (or during this process) cultivate draft picks to supplement our future core. It could be as simple as trading away one veteran forward and/or defenceman at this year's trade deadline to bring in the missing pieces.

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