HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Faceoffs remain a weak link

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-05-2013, 09:04 AM
  #1
BobbyJet
Registered User
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,199
vCash: 500
Faceoffs remain a weak link

Try to shelve the sarcasm but faceoffs remain an issue, and a big one ... and Q is well aware as is the team:

From Bleacher report:
" On Thursday, Quenneville turned to one of the NHL’s greatest faceoff players, Yanic Perreault, to instruct the Blackhawks. Perreault, who is a Blackhawks development coach, spent about 20 minutes working with the team’s forwards on faceoffs.
The Blackhawks ranked 11th in the league last regular season with a 50.8 percent faceoff winning percentage, but that was largely due to Jonathan Toews. He won 267 faceoffs and lost 187 for a 58.8 percentage.

Among the other Blackhawks who took at least 100 faceoffs, no one had higher than a 42.5 winning percentage. Andrew Shaw, who was primarily the third-line center, was 99-134 for a 42.5 percentage; Marcus Kruger, the fourth-line center, was 96-142 for a 40.3 percentage; and Dave Bolland, the second-line center, was 95-143 for a 39.9 percentage."

BobbyJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 09:21 AM
  #2
Atomic Punk
Mean Streets
 
Atomic Punk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Panama
Country: United States
Posts: 8,838
vCash: 50
One....flipping......game.

Atomic Punk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 09:23 AM
  #3
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 21,754
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
We've got Toews and Handzus in the top 6. That's two of the best FO% C's in the league.

DisgruntledHawkFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 09:39 AM
  #4
BobbyJet
Registered User
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapjacks View Post
One....flipping......game.
I guess you didn't read the second paragraph.... those stats are for 48 games last season ..... but just keep that head in the sand.

Those stats speak for themselves but what is missing is how each of our centers fare in "key" face-offs. It seems we lose a lot of those, especially on the PK.

BobbyJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 10:24 AM
  #5
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,226
vCash: 500
1 game into the season - that the Hawks won and Toews, Handzus & Krüger were over 50% - this becomes a topic?? REALLY?

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 10:49 AM
  #6
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: Fiji
Posts: 25,468
vCash: 1
The Hawks clearly do need to work on faceoffs, but every team has relative deficiencies and clearly that wasn't enough to sink us last year, so I don't think it's necessarily a critical issue.

And, it's a whole new year, so hopefully they're putting an effort, as the article suggests, on their faceoff effort (and the PP).

__________________

Nerd, don't estimate all humanity by the limitations of your own capability. - Steve Smith, Professor of History, University of China, IL
No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 11:53 AM
  #7
BronYrAur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,259
vCash: 500
For whatever reason it seems like none of our young centers who have come up can win faceoffs. Could be a skill that develops with experience, not sure though. But obviously with Toews out there, if we had another guy (say, Kruger) who could win half his faceoffs that would be a nice plus, especially on the PK.

BronYrAur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 11:55 AM
  #8
zytz
lumberjack
 
zytz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,798
vCash: 500
Kruger seems like he has improved quite a bit from what we have seen so far. I'm not really worried about it

zytz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 12:52 PM
  #9
BobbyJet
Registered User
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
1 game into the season - that the Hawks won and Toews, Handzus & Krüger were over 50% - this becomes a topic?? REALLY?
YEAH REALLY !!

The Hawk coaching staff disagrees with you. Get off your high horse.

We need Kruger, Shaw, Hanzus, whoever hovering at 50 percent or better in KEY face-off situations. Now go ahead and argue with that.

BobbyJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 12:54 PM
  #10
Hawkaholic
Registered User
 
Hawkaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,338
vCash: 500
They definitely need to get better, but we aren't going to lose a cup because of it.

Hawkaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 01:50 PM
  #11
Crazy_Ike
Cookin' with fire.
 
Crazy_Ike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,504
vCash: 500
It's less a problem than it is the Hawks recognizing that when your entire game plan revolves around always having the puck, you kind of want to win the faceoffs as much as possible.

It's basically the only reason Handzus is still in the NHL.

Getting ole Yanic back was a no risk move to try to improve some techniques (cough Kruger) but honestly there's only so much you can do to get better when you've been doing it since you were nine years old (and so has everyone you faceoff against). Either you have it or you don't. What Perreault can do is teach guys like Kruger how not to have draws get obliterated with clean losses.

Crazy_Ike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 05:07 PM
  #12
BobbyJet
Registered User
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
It's less a problem than it is the Hawks recognizing that when your entire game plan revolves around always having the puck, you kind of want to win the faceoffs as much as possible.

It's basically the only reason Handzus is still in the NHL.

Getting ole Yanic back was a no risk move to try to improve some techniques (cough Kruger) but honestly there's only so much you can do to get better when you've been doing it since you were nine years old (and so has everyone you faceoff against). Either you have it or you don't. What Perreault can do is teach guys like Kruger how not to have draws get obliterated with clean losses.
Yes. If clean losses can be held to a minimum it would definitely help the cause, especially on face-offs in our end on the PK (where it happens too often).

BobbyJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 07:42 PM
  #13
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Try to shelve the sarcasm but faceoffs remain an issue, and a big one ... and Q is well aware as is the team:

From Bleacher report:
" On Thursday, Quenneville turned to one of the NHL’s greatest faceoff players, Yanic Perreault, to instruct the Blackhawks. Perreault, who is a Blackhawks development coach, spent about 20 minutes working with the team’s forwards on faceoffs.
The Blackhawks ranked 11th in the league last regular season with a 50.8 percent faceoff winning percentage, but that was largely due to Jonathan Toews. He won 267 faceoffs and lost 187 for a 58.8 percentage.

Among the other Blackhawks who took at least 100 faceoffs, no one had higher than a 42.5 winning percentage. Andrew Shaw, who was primarily the third-line center, was 99-134 for a 42.5 percentage; Marcus Kruger, the fourth-line center, was 96-142 for a 40.3 percentage; and Dave Bolland, the second-line center, was 95-143 for a 39.9 percentage."

The Hawks were 11th in the NHL last year, and it's been 1 game this year.

"Remain" a concern? It hasn't been one yet.

slappipappi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 08:49 PM
  #14
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
 
Marotte Marauder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,570
vCash: 500
Kruger gets walked at the dot in his own zone.

Marotte Marauder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 09:17 PM
  #15
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
 
Marotte Marauder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,570
vCash: 500
Yes, they remain a concern. Please do something w/Kruger.

Marotte Marauder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 09:21 PM
  #16
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
 
Marotte Marauder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,570
vCash: 500
Another lost draw by Kruger, Hawks never touch the puck again. 2-2. Yup draws aren't important nor a concern.

Marotte Marauder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 09:56 PM
  #17
zac
Registered User
 
zac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Try to shelve the sarcasm but faceoffs remain an issue, and a big one ... and Q is well aware as is the team:

From Bleacher report:
" On Thursday, Quenneville turned to one of the NHL’s greatest faceoff players, Yanic Perreault, to instruct the Blackhawks. Perreault, who is a Blackhawks development coach, spent about 20 minutes working with the team’s forwards on faceoffs.
The Blackhawks ranked 11th in the league last regular season with a 50.8 percent faceoff winning percentage, but that was largely due to Jonathan Toews. He won 267 faceoffs and lost 187 for a 58.8 percentage.

Among the other Blackhawks who took at least 100 faceoffs, no one had higher than a 42.5 winning percentage. Andrew Shaw, who was primarily the third-line center, was 99-134 for a 42.5 percentage; Marcus Kruger, the fourth-line center, was 96-142 for a 40.3 percentage; and Dave Bolland, the second-line center, was 95-143 for a 39.9 percentage."
Does this mean there's hope the dumbass will recognize Keith shouldn't be on the PP and we'll finally get our pointmen off their shot sides?

FOs are an issue (Kruger was awful in DZ faceoffs tonight) but I think we piss away far more goals with our horrible PP set up. Q has no justification for doing the things that he does with that unit (or letting his asst. coaches do it).

zac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 10:16 AM
  #18
BobbyJet
Registered User
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
Does this mean there's hope the dumbass will recognize Keith shouldn't be on the PP and we'll finally get our pointmen off their shot sides?

FOs are an issue (Kruger was awful in DZ faceoffs tonight) but I think we piss away far more goals with our horrible PP set up. Q has no justification for doing the things that he does with that unit (or letting his asst. coaches do it).
Don't count on it. It has been obvious for quite a while. Seabs tries some one timers when he can but it's usually from the wrong angle and some 55 feet from the crease.

BobbyJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 11:18 AM
  #19
hawksfan50
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,839
vCash: 500
In the first game as I pointed out...while we were very good in faceoff wins on the neutral and o-zone areas, we won only 7 of 19 in our d-zone and some of those cost us in allowing the 3 goals on our PK...again in game 2, we lose a key dzone draw on the PK and TB scores a PP goal 31 seconds later after controlling the puck in our zone...it is not so much total faceoff wins or losses that impact the game but rather KEY faceoffs in our Dzone...especially on the PK...and KEY faceoffs in the o-zone to control the puck and create scoring opportunities.. In game 2. ..again only 5 wins of 17 draws in our dzone..Kruger was just 1 win of 8 draws in that dzone fo fail...In gme 1 Toews was only 2 wins of his 6 dzone draws...so clearly our dzone draws. ..many of which can kill us on the PK if we lose control right off the start...ARE a major problem to correct.


Last edited by hawksfan50: 10-06-2013 at 11:44 AM.
hawksfan50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #20
rick hawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
It's less a problem than it is the Hawks recognizing that when your entire game plan revolves around always having the puck, you kind of want to win the faceoffs as much as possible.

It's basically the only reason Handzus is still in the NHL.

Getting ole Yanic back was a no risk move to try to improve some techniques (cough Kruger) but honestly there's only so much you can do to get better when you've been doing it since you were nine years old (and so has everyone you faceoff against). Either you have it or you don't. What Perreault can do is teach guys like Kruger how not to have draws get obliterated with clean losses.
That's so true. Its not like a guy can make the NHL then decide he's going to work on become a skater like Duncan Keith or scorer like Stamkos. Its fine to work on stuff but they have been doing it their whole hockey lives. Improvement is limited at this level.

rick hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 01:01 PM
  #21
Crazy_Ike
Cookin' with fire.
 
Crazy_Ike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,504
vCash: 500
It's easier to say "fix it" than to find a realistic option.

How many defensively responsible centers with high win percentages do you guys think are available?

I think we'll be living with this lineup, more or less, until the trade deadline.

Crazy_Ike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 01:18 PM
  #22
BobbyJet
Registered User
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawksfan50 View Post
In the first game as I pointed out...while we were very good in faceoff wins on the neutral and o-zone areas, we won only 7 of 19 in our d-zone and some of those cost us in allowing the 3 goals on our PK...again in game 2, we lose a key dzone draw on the PK and TB scores a PP goal 31 seconds later after controlling the puck in our zone...it is not so much total faceoff wins or losses that impact the game but rather KEY faceoffs in our Dzone...especially on the PK...and KEY faceoffs in the o-zone to control the puck and create scoring opportunities.. In game 2. ..again only 5 wins of 17 draws in our dzone..Kruger was just 1 win of 8 draws in that dzone fo fail...In gme 1 Toews was only 2 wins of his 6 dzone draws...so clearly our dzone draws. ..many of which can kill us on the PK if we lose control right off the start...ARE a major problem to correct.
And the above stats indicate the issue is bigger than a 2nd , 3rd, or 4th line center hovering around 40 - 45 percent.

BobbyJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:14 PM
  #23
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,226
vCash: 500


not much more to say after 2 games into the season

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:37 PM
  #24
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
 
Marotte Marauder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post


not much more to say after 2 games into the season
Some wouldn't say it after 50 games, especially if they don't see it.

Marotte Marauder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:29 PM
  #25
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,226
vCash: 500
we won the cup last year with the same guys taking the draws... Is it really a problem?

Much like getting outhit, this is a problem that won't lose us games or will make or break our season.
Don't start with they bring in Perreault. That's a smart move but even if every player we have is 70+ % on faceoffs there is ~30% of room to improve.

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.