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The Perfect Player, According to Some of the All-time Greats

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Old
01-15-2004, 10:17 AM
  #1
Trottier
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The Perfect Player, According to Some of the All-time Greats

The perfect player
Even The Great One follows Gordie 'Mr. Hockey' Howe

Bob McManaman
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 15, 2004

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...tmain0115.html

***

Interesting read.

Funny, #99, Howe, etc. seem to differ with a few experts here regarding Forsberg's talent. And Pavel Datsuyk gets high marks from Mr. Hockey himself.

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01-15-2004, 11:53 AM
  #2
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Thanks for sharing the link/article it was good read. I think if I was building the perfect player my focal point would be on 'Heart'. You can have all the skills in the world but w/o heart & desire forget it. I want the player who wants to be the best who ever played the game. Who shows emotion... is willing to play through pain & do whatever it takes to win. So just give the Flyers Kovalchuk & I'll call it even... ;-).

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Old
01-15-2004, 12:14 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
And Pavel Datsuyk gets high marks from Mr. Hockey himself.
A former Wing praises a current one. Now there's a shocker.

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Old
01-15-2004, 12:16 PM
  #4
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Interesting read. Really liked it.

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Old
01-15-2004, 01:00 PM
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Bobby Orr was the PERFECT player, bar none.

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Old
01-15-2004, 03:12 PM
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These words warms a Forsberg-fan :

"Ask Lemieux what makes a perfect player, and he will tell you hands, great vision and heart.

His picks for perfection in those three areas?

"Well, the vision would be Gretz, for sure. The heart would have to be Forsberg.

"And I'll take the hands," he said, laughing.

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01-15-2004, 04:48 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
A former Wing praises a current one. Now there's a shocker.

Other Dave
Expected this predictable comment. Gordie Howe was a Wing before Datsyuk's parents were born. And he is no great Wing shill today, nor is he ever been one who has hesitated to speak his mind.

Maybe, just maybe, he really likes the kid. More likely than the fact that he is trying to make friends at his advanced age.

The cynicism never ends here!

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01-15-2004, 04:53 PM
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Several players excel in two or three areas, but it would take a combination of several players to build the perfect model, someone who embodies strength, speed and endurance, mental and physical toughness, hockey skills and vision, along with intangibles such as leadership and desire.


For a while, Eric Lindros was basically just that. What a package. If only...

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01-15-2004, 04:53 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BF_Sweden
These words warms a Forsberg-fan :

"Ask Lemieux what makes a perfect player, and he will tell you hands, great vision and heart.

His picks for perfection in those three areas?

"Well, the vision would be Gretz, for sure. The heart would have to be Forsberg.

"And I'll take the hands," he said, laughing.
I wonder where Mario sees Jagr

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Old
01-15-2004, 04:55 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady41
I wonder where Mario sees Jagr
At the bank, cashing his check..... but seriously, I would be curious as well, I can see one of two approaches either

A) A world class player among the likes of himself or Gretzky or Howe

or B) Just a decent but still good player (Like Sakic or Roenick or Selanne) with his stats boosted by the talent around him

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01-15-2004, 05:01 PM
  #11
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Forsberg is the most complete!

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Old
01-15-2004, 05:05 PM
  #12
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Iginla has the scoring, the speed, the leadership, the tenacity, the toughness, the endurance, the durabilty and the heart to be as close to howe in today's nhl.

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01-15-2004, 06:31 PM
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Iginla isn't good enough. Forsberg is really the only person playing in the NHL right now who I would say is close to a perfect player. Thornton has a chance to be close and when healthy, you can't ignore Pronger.

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Old
01-15-2004, 06:39 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by DaveyCrockett
Iginla isn't good enough. Forsberg is really the only person playing in the NHL right now who I would say is close to a perfect player. Thornton has a chance to be close and when healthy, you can't ignore Pronger.
forsberg is nothing like howe. howe managed to play in 4+ decades while forsberg been averaging 60 games a season ever since he came into the nhl. way to undurable and unreliable to starta franchise with

thornton would be my #2 choice but i don't get the impression that he is good leadership material. i don't know too much about the bruins locker room but thornton isn't liked by the media, other nhl players and nhl fans. he also takes quite a couple of dumb penalties.

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01-15-2004, 07:11 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Expected this predictable comment. Gordie Howe was a Wing before Datsyuk's parents were born.
And he's obviously still a big fan.

Or wait, maybe Howe picked Datsyuk because he really *is* better than Thornton, Forsberg, or Naslund!

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Old
01-15-2004, 07:25 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
And he's obviously still a big fan.

Or wait, maybe Howe picked Datsyuk because he really *is* better than Thornton, Forsberg, or Naslund!

Other Dave
Perhaps you read a different version of the story? Here's Howe's quote (emphasis added):

"Skating and hockey sense are at the top of my list," Howe said recently from Detroit, where the Coyotes play on Friday. "And I'll tell you a kid out there right now who's as good in those two areas as anyone. Pavel Datsyuk. The kid's just amazing."

How that translates into Datsyuk being better than the players you mention is fascinating. Anyhow, those of us who have been raving about Datsyuk for the last couple of years take some pleasure in knowing that Gordie Howe agrees (as opposed to some of the naysaying experts on this board).

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Old
01-16-2004, 12:16 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Perhaps you read a different version of the story? Here's Howe's quote (emphasis added):

"Skating and hockey sense are at the top of my list," Howe said recently from Detroit, where the Coyotes play on Friday. "And I'll tell you a kid out there right now who's as good in those two areas as anyone. Pavel Datsyuk. The kid's just amazing."

How that translates into Datsyuk being better than the players you mention is fascinating. Anyhow, those of us who have been raving about Datsyuk for the last couple of years take some pleasure in knowing that Gordie Howe agrees (as opposed to some of the naysaying experts on this board).

Thing is...
the complete players = the best player

And while he's correct about Datsyuk's skating and hockey sense, he isn't close to being a complete player...

Lindros was,
Forsberg is,
Thornton will be?

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Old
01-16-2004, 03:51 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyCrockett
Iginla isn't good enough.
Holy smokes, not only does he hit,fight and make great plays,he has scored the most goals of anyone the last 3 years,and he managed to do this without a true top line centre...if anyone is a modern day Gordie Howe it's Iginla.

Are you a eastern hockey writer by any chance?:p

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Old
01-16-2004, 04:11 AM
  #19
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Forsberg, is the most complete player in the NHL today.He was dynamite last night scoring 2 nice goals.

I think Jagr is the most talented player in the world, yet he still plays below his talent.Jagr has to be the smoothest skater I have ever seen live.(I've seen him about 6 times in Buffalo , most of them with Pittsburgh, and I sat in the 1st row always where the opposing team starts the period and skate around, and he was so slick.I'm really hoping for Jagr to pull through and return to his dominant ways.If Jagr turns back to the days of 1995-1996(I think that's the year Lemieux was out),Washington will become very very good.

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Old
01-16-2004, 09:33 AM
  #20
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For all of Forsberg's talent, head for the game, balance (when he's not flopping on the ice like a big floppa), ability to play mean, and his great touch, you have to take away marks for the diving and the durability. Peter's balance and hockey sense are top notch, and it's shocking to see him flop on the ice... which is why the diving is so bad.

Would you expect Gordie to dive in front of the Rocket or any Canadiens player? No. Would you expect Floppa to take a dive in front of a Red Wings/Ducks/Stars/Windsor Spitfires player? Yes, and we've seen it again and again - so that's where Forsberg could never live up to Howe's legacy. This is not to say that "Mr. Elbows" was 100% clean... but he would simply lay the smack down on you, and not dive/whine/pout at the refs like Peter (who can also lay the smack down if he chooses to not act like he's been shot).

Joe Thornton was given the C out of expectations rather than reality. Maybe he's not a good fit as captain of the Bruins right now, but he has a long road ahead. The expectations of Steve Yzerman were sky high too, and the Red Wings were a long-suffering team before Bowman... not many people are like Steve Yzerman, though, and I wouldn't compare Thornton to him.

I think we remember the past couple years with Steve Yzerman (bad knee, limping, old man)... but I just read that he's only a couple points from passing Mario's career point total, which is remarkable (Yzerman 1699, Lemieux 1701... Forsberg 722, Sakic 1363, Howe (NHL) 1850, Messier 1869, Gretzky 2856!!!). And Yzerman played with his bad knee at a high level, whereas Forsberg took a year off from hockey (he earned his rest, but what does that say about heart?).

I wouldn't put Steve Yzerman in the same category as Mario, but Steve is in rare company & deserves some mention in the whole "best player" argument (in spite of the image you might have of Yzerman today). For the best NHLer, I would take Yzerman or Sakic or Messier's heart before I would take Forsberg's.

 
Old
01-16-2004, 11:12 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Loco_Avs
Thing is...
the complete players = the best player

I disagree.
Complete in my mind means extremely well rounded and is good in ALL respects, it doesn't necessarily mean he's an incredible standout player in the NHL.

Wayne Gretzky is the greatest hockey player of all time IMHO, but he wasn't close to be 'complete'.
Nicklas Lidstrom has one multiple Norris Trohies in a row, but isn't close to being 'complete'.
Forsberg won the Hart trophy last year, and is often regarded as the best in the NHL right now (My own opinion also)... yet I believe he is mediocre to average in some respects.

Goal scorer, playmaker, agility, speed on skates, balance, endurance, checking ability, toughness, fighting, leadership, heart, hockey sense, offensive instincts, defensive instincts, shot blocking, accurate/hard shot/quick release, wrist/slap/backhand shot, size, health, vision, etc etc.

The above are only a few quick examples of aspects the 'complete' player would be good in.

Perfect would imply that one was the best in all aspects of the game, complete would seem to imply one is at least good in all aspects.

Greatness doesn't necessarily mean one is either of the above.

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Old
01-16-2004, 11:43 AM
  #22
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So based on Rand's description, then possibly John Madden? (who's definitely one of my favorite players)

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