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Old
10-05-2013, 03:54 PM
  #126
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About Grigorenko's skating - skating coaches can help but you have to be realistic, there's more to skating than technique, he's been skating probably since he's 4 years old, 16 years of skating the way he does, you can't expect a big improvement. Speed can't be coached, yes sprinters and skaters do get coached to improve their speed, the increases are small, in the world of sprinting a small increase can make you an Olympic medalist rather than an 8th place finisher.

Mathew Coller on WGR mentioned Patrick Kane was not a good skater when he arrived in the NHL - I have no memory of Kane being slow the way Grigorenko is. Grigorenko has long legs, he'll always appear to be slower than he actually is.

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10-05-2013, 04:04 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by FanboySlayer View Post
Can't believe the **** Ennis takes on here, some of it deserved, while Slowly Hodgson, of the 6 year contract, basically goes unscathed.

AT LEAST Ennis is fast and skilled enough to get his stick on the puck, Hodgson is an empty uniform.
They're both awful right now.

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10-05-2013, 04:04 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanboySlayer View Post
About Grigorenko's skating - skating coaches can help but you have to be realistic, there's more to skating than technique, he's been skating probably since he's 4 years old, 16 years of skating the way he does, you can't expect a big improvement. Speed can't be coached, yes sprinters and skaters do get coached to improve their speed, the increases are small, in the world of sprinting a small increase can make you an Olympic medalist rather than an 8th place finisher.

Mathew Coller on WGR mentioned Patrick Kane was not a good skater when he arrived in the NHL - I have no memory of Kane being slow the way Grigorenko is. Grigorenko has long legs, he'll always appear to be slower than he actually is.
Speed isn't the problem. Grigorenko needs to strengthen his legs and work on his skating technique to improve his acceleration and balance. Having stronger legs will let him battle along the boards and in front of the net more effectively. Better acceleration will let him catch up to plays and get in on puck battles more frequently. There's about 0 doubt that he can improve his acceleration.

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10-05-2013, 04:15 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Speed isn't the problem. Grigorenko needs to strengthen his legs and work on his skating technique to improve his acceleration and balance. Having stronger legs will let him battle along the boards and in front of the net more effectively. Better acceleration will let him catch up to plays and get in on puck battles more frequently. There's about 0 doubt that he can improve his acceleration.
He's a hockey player his entire life, he's skated a million miles, his legs are plenty strong - genes are genes.

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10-05-2013, 04:16 PM
  #130
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He's a hockey player his entire life, he's skated a million miles, his legs are plenty strong - genes are genes.
He's 19 years old. Are you even being serious here?

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10-05-2013, 04:18 PM
  #131
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He's 19 years old. Are you even being serious here?
Yes of course I'm serious, show me a player who came into the NHL as a poor skater who developed into a good skater.

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10-05-2013, 04:20 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by FanboySlayer View Post
Can't believe the **** Ennis takes on here, some of it deserved, while Slowly Hodgson, of the 6 year contract, basically goes unscathed.

AT LEAST Ennis is fast and skilled enough to get his stick on the puck, Hodgson is an empty uniform.
Are you sure you don't have two accounts? You're about as dramatic as Layne.


Cody Hodgson led all NHL Sophomores and finished second on the Sabres in points. Holds five franchise records for the Brampton Battalion. Won Gold with 2009 Canada WJC. Was the top overall scorer.

But yea, Cody Hodgson who was just extended for 6 more years.... Is an empty uniform. Not even Stokes would go that far off the reservation.


Get a grip.


This isn't Ennis vs. Hodgson anyway. Although you'd love to make it that way.

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10-05-2013, 04:23 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanboySlayer View Post
Yes of course I'm serious, show me a player who came into the NHL as a poor skater who developed into a good skater.
Who says he's a "poor skater" and needs to turn into a "good skater"? Such generalizing is pointless. Most players improve their skating, specifically their acceleration, which is what Grigorenko needs to improve.

If you're seriously asking for an example of a player who notably improved his skating, I don't know what to tell you, because there are examples on every team. A fairly clear example we had here was Pominville.

I don't know what is running through your mind during this conversation, but no one is suggesting Grigorenko's skating will turn into Stamkos. Joe Thornton is the more apt benchmark.

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10-05-2013, 04:39 PM
  #134
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Yes of course I'm serious, show me a player who came into the NHL as a poor skater who developed into a good skater.
Tavares

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10-05-2013, 04:43 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post


Cody Hodgson led all NHL Sophomores and finished second on the Sabres in points. Holds five franchise records for the Brampton Battalion. Won Gold with 2009 Canada WJC. Was the top overall scorer.



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10-05-2013, 04:43 PM
  #136
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Yes of course I'm serious, show me a player who came into the NHL as a poor skater who developed into a good skater.
Yanic Perreault

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10-05-2013, 04:48 PM
  #137
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An interesting thing I noticed about Grigorenko and his skating/stance the other night is that he looks like he's a bit bowlegged. Like he's been riding a horse his whole life. He's tall and skates too upright for my tastes. I'd like to see more knee bend and a shorter stride. He has long legs so leg extension comes naturally but I don't feel that he gets enough power out of his stride.

The bowlegged thing caught me by surprise. He was forechecking near the far corner so his back was to the camera and the play changed direction quickly moving up ice. That's when I observed his "O" stance. He had trouble accelerating when he crossed his right leg over his left....a standard cross over start.... because his left skate was too far out from under him. Maybe he just had his feet too far apart as the result of him closing the distance on the puck. But the lack of a power step over and push out left him chasing the play as a result.

Some of you guys see him up close and in person and can focus on his stride way more than I can via the TV. But he strikes me more as a big lumbering skater. More like Phil Esposito, or Don Saleski (ha ha) than Vinny Lecavalier..

Another guy who had a bowlegged stance - wider than normal distance between his feet and slightly convex legs - was Gil Perreault (my hero). I remember this because I watched him skate up the ice from the oranges in the Aud for 8 seasons and could always see his stance and kickout. Gil had great knee bend and was compact in his stride and could accelerate and change direction at a snap.

Anyways, Grigs skating has a long way to go to match Bert's. I gotta believe this is a priority with the Sabres skating coach.

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10-05-2013, 05:46 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
An interesting thing I noticed about Grigorenko and his skating/stance the other night is that he looks like he's a bit bowlegged. Like he's been riding a horse his whole life. He's tall and skates too upright for my tastes. I'd like to see more knee bend and a shorter stride. He has long legs so leg extension comes naturally but I don't feel that he gets enough power out of his stride.

The bowlegged thing caught me by surprise. He was forechecking near the far corner so his back was to the camera and the play changed direction quickly moving up ice. That's when I observed his "O" stance. He had trouble accelerating when he crossed his right leg over his left....a standard cross over start.... because his left skate was too far out from under him. Maybe he just had his feet too far apart as the result of him closing the distance on the puck. But the lack of a power step over and push out left him chasing the play as a result.

Some of you guys see him up close and in person and can focus on his stride way more than I can via the TV. But he strikes me more as a big lumbering skater. More like Phil Esposito, or Don Saleski (ha ha) than Vinny Lecavalier..

Another guy who had a bowlegged stance - wider than normal distance between his feet and slightly convex legs - was Gil Perreault (my hero). I remember this because I watched him skate up the ice from the oranges in the Aud for 8 seasons and could always see his stance and kickout. Gil had great knee bend and was compact in his stride and could accelerate and change direction at a snap.

Anyways, Grigs skating has a long way to go to match Bert's. I gotta believe this is a priority with the Sabres skating coach.
The bowlegged thing is a good observation, but I don't think there's a correlation between that and why Grigorenko is a pretty poor skater.

To me, the most noticeable thing is stride length. For someone who is not short by any means, he has such a chopped up, short stride. He doesn't edge enough, which leads to a shorter stride and less ground covered while using more energy.

It's nothing that can't be fixed, thankfully. I'm more worried about other aspects of his game.

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10-05-2013, 05:50 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Are you sure you don't have two accounts? You're about as dramatic as Layne.


Cody Hodgson led all NHL Sophomores and finished second on the Sabres in points. Holds five franchise records for the Brampton Battalion. Won Gold with 2009 Canada WJC. Was the top overall scorer.

But yea, Cody Hodgson who was just extended for 6 more years.... Is an empty uniform. Not even Stokes would go that far off the reservation.


Get a grip.


This isn't Ennis vs. Hodgson anyway. Although you'd love to make it that way.
Look at the bright side, only 490 more games.

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10-05-2013, 06:21 PM
  #140
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Well let's see--Peter Mahovlich who had long legs but was awkward as the devil, Dave Andreychuk, Phil Esposito who did not make junior until 19 he was so bad, Jay McKee, Bill Hajt (run Billy run!), ah that's enough. Determination, increased strength and some tweaking with lots of proper technique could go a looong way with Grigs. And yes Tavares--when I saw him at the world juniors he was an awful skater--but he had great vision and knew where to go to get a pass and when and where to put one. He looked like crap but was always on the scoresheet.

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10-05-2013, 06:21 PM
  #141
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Yes of course I'm serious, show me a player who came into the NHL as a poor skater who developed into a good skater.
Wow... I'm embarrassed for you

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