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10-05-2013, 07:25 PM
  #76
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whats our winning % with johnc as head coach?
Better than AV's!!!!

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10-05-2013, 07:25 PM
  #77
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The brainwashing of being a "winner", a "leader", and "tough" are why we have threads like this. People get brainwashed by these buzz words and stop living in reality. That's why a lot of players go too high in the draft, people are enamored with intangibles. So this spills over into coaching where being a "winner" and "leader" as a player makes you a better coach than an actual coach.
Exactly this. It's ridiculous.

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I can sympathize with the OP.

A lot of you may be sick of Messier because MSG Network force feeds us 1994 but he is still the preeminent New York Ranger of the modern era, and is now associating with different franchise. I have no idea if Messier is qualified; it would have been cool to give him a shot. I think he earned it in the sense that he's been a warrior and a good ambassador for the organization for so long. After his interview on NHL Network about leaving the organization, I believed Messier interviewed for the Rangers head coaching position for sincere and selfless reasons, and that he genuinely felt unappreciated when they brought someone outside the family to take the reigns.
The issue I have with Messier, and it has nothing to do with his playing days because he is one of my favorite players of all time not just because of 1994, is that we all saw this coming if he was passed over for the head coaching job. If he didn't get what HE wanted he'd leave, instead of taking a lesser role.

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10-05-2013, 07:25 PM
  #78
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Therein lies the problem. No one has anything on Messier because he has 0 coaching bullet points on his resume. Why can't Mess go through the ropes like all these other coaches? What makes him so special that he can skip steps and take the reigns?
If experience is a requisite then don't ask him to interview in the first place. Sather approached Messier, not the other way around.

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10-05-2013, 07:26 PM
  #79
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If experience is a requisite then don't ask him to interview in the first place. Sather approached Messier, not the other way around.
I wish Sather didn't. The fact that he was even considered was a joke in my opinion.

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10-05-2013, 07:27 PM
  #80
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Yeah and that's awesome that you're a long time fan but that doesn't automatically means you know what's best for them.
why does this forum exist then?

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10-05-2013, 07:27 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
If experience is a requisite then don't ask him to interview in the first place. Sather approached Messier, not the other way around.
Probably approached him as a sign of respect. Respect gets you the interview but not the job.

Considering the way Messier reacted to not getting the job, imagine if he didn't get an interview?

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10-05-2013, 07:28 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post


Not sure if serious, but not for people to claim that because they're a fan longer, they already know more than the org itself.

Crease, I understand what you're saying, and back when we were looking for a coach, I tried kicking around the idea of having him first as an assistant to start smaller so he can gain some traction. But I don't think that anyone should lose sleep over this because the guy we hired has experience and coaching knowledge..
please. Hyperbole much?

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10-05-2013, 07:32 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Crease, I understand what you're saying, and back when we were looking for a coach, I tried kicking around the idea of having him first as an assistant to start smaller so he can gain some traction. But I don't think that anyone should lose sleep over this because the guy we hired has experience and coaching knowledge..
I'm happy with AV but I'm bummed Messier is no longer with the organization. I feel like I can't have nice things because the organizational leaders keep pissing off our legends. Trading Park and Ratelle away like it was nothing. Leetch sent packing on his birthday. Pissing Messier off to the point that he's leaving NYC for Edmonton. A 90 year old franchise and nothing is sacred.

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10-05-2013, 07:33 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I'm happy with AV but I'm bummed Messier is no longer with the organization. I feel like I can't have nice things because the organizational leaders keep pissing off our legends. Trading Park and Ratelle away like it was nothing. Leetch sent packing on his birthday. Pissing Messier off to the point that he's leaving NYC for Edmonton.
What did the Rangers do to piss Messier off? They didn't hand him the HC job? Thats literally all that happened. This is AFTER they handed him the "Assistant GM" or whatever his title was when he was here.

If Messier is upset by that, then I refer to the gif posted above.

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10-05-2013, 07:35 PM
  #85
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What did the Rangers do to piss Messier off? They didn't hand him the HC job? Thats literally all that happened. This is AFTER they handed him the "Assistant GM" or whatever his title was when he was here.

If Messier is upset by that, then I refer to the gif posted above.
We have no idea what happened or what was said behind closed doors. All I know is Messier is gone and he's clearly not happy with Sather.

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10-05-2013, 07:36 PM
  #86
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my only Rangers Idol is Jean Ratelle.
Who was traded for Carol Vadnais, my idol. Imagine playing in the NHL with that name? It's almost like #42 in baseball.

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10-05-2013, 07:36 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I'm happy with AV but I'm bummed Messier is no longer with the organization. I feel like I can't have nice things because the organizational leaders keep pissing off our legends. Trading Park and Ratelle away like it was nothing. Leetch sent packing on his birthday. Pissing Messier off to the point that he's leaving NYC for Edmonton. A 90 year old franchise and nothing is sacred.
Didn't say I didn't like it. But I'm just not going to really react on it.It's a crappy crappy way it's ran, yes. (If that's what we're talking about let's do it ) But I think him leaving for Edmonton is a little much. As I did when he left cause he didn't get the gig. But the important thing now is that AV does well with the guys. Sure I'm a little annoyed about the sequence of events but not enough.

Kind of OT but I think Leetch handled it better. Even though it happened he came back into the org... I believe he's still here, I'm unsure.

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10-05-2013, 07:37 PM
  #88
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What were we supposed to do to appease Mark Messier? Short of handing him the coach or GM job, what else can you do? The organization has treated him extremely well.

I love Mess to death and always will. He has an ego. It's part of what made him as great as he was. Not surprising that he left though. Ah well, it is what it is.

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10-05-2013, 07:37 PM
  #89
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We have no idea what happened or what was said behind closed doors. All I know is Messier is gone and he's clearly not happy with Sather.
I suppose we do not but I'd rather go on what we do know rather than assuming Sather/Rangers did *something* worthy of him being so jilted.

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10-05-2013, 07:40 PM
  #90
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10-05-2013, 07:42 PM
  #91
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Who was traded for Carol Vadnais, my idol. Imagine playing in the NHL with that name? It's almost like #42 in baseball.
clicked on wrong Quote. I'm still impressed that Vads is your idol.

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10-05-2013, 07:43 PM
  #92
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why does this forum exist then?
This forum exists for Rangers/Hockey fans to discuss hockey. Not to argue who's opinions are more legitimate because they've been fans of the sport longer.

My little sisters are diehard Rangers fans (20, 18 and 17 years old) and I've met fans who are in their late 20's, 30's and 40's who know less then they do about the sport and the team.

In fact, a lot of younger fans, I find, actually have a more non-biased opinion because they have seen hockey played only the way it is today. Hockey has changed quite a bit in the past decade or so (less fighting, emphasis on finesse and skill, higher quality of training, defensvie schematics, etc) and a lot of the "older" fans don't relate to the new concepts because they grew up on a different "breed" of hockey.

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I can sympathize with the OP.

A lot of you may be sick of Messier because MSG Network force feeds us 1994 but he is still the preeminent New York Ranger of the modern era, and is now associating with different franchise. I have no idea if Messier is qualified; it would have been cool to give him a shot. I think he earned it in the sense that he's been a warrior and a good ambassador for the organization for so long. After his interview on NHL Network about leaving the organization, I believed Messier interviewed for the Rangers head coaching position for sincere and selfless reasons, and that he genuinely felt unappreciated when they brought someone outside the family to take the reigns.
My opinion has nothing to do with me being forcefed Messier. I absolutely love the guy as a player. I have his picture hanging in my house, proudly. But from the whole leaving for Vancouver debacle, to the way he acted when he wasn't given the coaching job is absurd. I understand the point you made about Sather even interviewing him, but if that's what the powers as be felt was best for the team, then Messier should understand that.

It has been essentially a known fact that Messier is an ego-maniac, which I'm certain is extremely relative to his success as a leader, but having that type of mindset in the front office can be extremely detrimental to an organization.

If he REALLY wanted to be coach, he should have asked to be part of the staff or even the AHL staff. Jumping from sitting upstairs and never having coached a professional game to a head coaching job on a "contending" team, would have been a massive mistake. Those are the kinds of juvenile mistakes I hope the Rangers never succumb to again.

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We have no idea what happened or what was said behind closed doors. All I know is Messier is gone and he's clearly not happy with Sather.

You seem to be relating that directly to Sather. In all honestly, I give the benefit of the doubt to Sather on this one. Messier has ALWAYS been touchy about things.

While we don't know what happened behind closed doors, I can't imagine Sather told him to **** off. On all accounts, it seemed Messier was upset the gig wasn't handed to him on a gold plate.

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10-05-2013, 07:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
This forum exists for Rangers/Hockey fans to discuss hockey. Not to argue who's opinions are more legitimate because they've been fans of the sport longer.
never said any such thing.


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10-05-2013, 07:51 PM
  #94
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never said any such thing.
Just to remind you...this was your exchange:

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Originally Posted by Guess What
Yeah and that's awesome that you're a long time fan but that doesn't automatically means you know what's best for them.
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why does this forum exist then?
So what you said, or at least as it came off, was this forum is for long time fans to express that they know whats best for the organization.

Which is completely untrue.

And if that's not what you meant, then you worded your response incorrectly.

No need to get so snotty. I'm not drinking just for your peace of mind as well.


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10-05-2013, 07:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Just to remind you...this was your exchange:





So what you said, or at least as it came off, was this forum is for long time fans to express that they know whats best for the organization.

Which is completely untrue.

And if that's not what you meant, then you worded your response incorrectly.

No need to get so snotty. I'm not drinking just for your peace of mind as well.
never ever played the "been a fan a lot longer than you" card. go back and read. not my thing. I mentioned how long I've been a fan as a defense mechanism because if you have an opinion that may have been formed before 2008 you get attacked. I love Messier. He brought us the cup after a lifetime. Upset that he left the organization that's all.

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10-05-2013, 08:03 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Just to remind you...this was your exchange:





So what you said, or at least as it came off, was this forum is for long time fans to express that they know whats best for the organization.

Which is completely untrue.

And if that's not what you meant, then you worded your response incorrectly.

No need to get so snotty. I'm not drinking just for your peace of mind as well.
never ever played the "been a fan a lot longer than you" card. go back and read. not my thing. I mentioned how long I've been a fan as a defense mechanism because if you have an opinion that may have been formed before 2008 you get attacked. I love Messier. He brought us the cup after a lifetime. Upset that he left the organization that's all.

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10-05-2013, 08:13 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
never ever played the "been a fan a lot longer than you" card. go back and read. not my thing. I mentioned how long I've been a fan as a defense mechanism because if you have an opinion that may have been formed before 2008 you get attacked. I love Messier. He brought us the cup after a lifetime. Upset that he left the organization that's all.
You played it on the first page of this thread...

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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley
Question, do you know what occurs in the Rangers locker room?

AV not the right coach.. Fan since 1973 (seen it all KIDS). Of course the younger generation knows all. .500 team this year. With Messier as coach .675 and a lot tougher.
That's a sarcastic comment and condescending to the younger generation and you prop yourself up saying you're a fan since 1973.

Definition of playing the "been a fan longer then you card."

Maybe you should re-read what you write prior to posting if you don't want to offend people. You've made multiple remarks in here that are quite offensive to other posters, including myself.

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10-05-2013, 08:19 PM
  #98
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You played it on the first page of this thread...



That's a sarcastic comment and condescending to the younger generation and you prop yourself up saying you're a fan since 1973.

Definition of playing the "been a fan longer then you card."

Maybe you should re-read what you write prior to posting if you don't want to offend people. You've made multiple remarks in here that are quite offensive to other posters, including myself.
Ok, you win. Been a Rangers fan since mid 70s. Seen it all. My opinion rules.

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10-05-2013, 08:21 PM
  #99
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It's as simple as Messier has never been a coach or an assistant--never tried to pay his dues. And that is too important an issue to dismiss. I'm not sure AV is the right guy for us but he at least knows what he's doing and has had a record of some success doing it. This isn't an on the job Ed Olczyk learning experience. We needed a real coach. Messier should never even been considered. And considering things such as shelf life how was his ego going to handle being fired one day?--an inevitability for practically every coach.

And it's not as if the Rangers haven't bent over backwards for Mark numerous times. He should have no ****ing complaints. Every milestone he got something in silver, gold or platinum. They even gave him him a jersey night with more bells and whistles than any such that I can remember along with a ****ing yacht. No other Ranger has ever been showered with so many gifts and freebies. He always got top $ and if that weren't enough to his mind he held out for more $'s and he always got what he wanted in the end.

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10-05-2013, 08:25 PM
  #100
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Ok, you win. Been a Rangers fan since mid 70s. Seen it all. My opinion rules.
How mature...

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