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Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 2 Pens vs. Sabres

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:01 PM
  #76
Nietzsche Zone Play
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Kaleta is still garbage and Ott had his stone hands on display the one time he was noticeable near the puck. I hope those two rot away on a crappy team for a couple more years.

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10-05-2013, 10:03 PM
  #77
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+ Structure......Martin's doing?

Anywayz, Seems weird to enjoy a game and wondering if and when its going blow up the way your use to seeing.
Well, it sure as **** isn't Bylsma's doing.

I think you want to see how it holds at Philly. At home against the Isles. And, then later against the highest octane offensive teams. That's going to be the true test. In a way, though, it's good that they're getting this chance to build the good habits early against lesser opponents.

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10-05-2013, 10:04 PM
  #78
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Seconded. I mean, Jesus Christ, our top six didn't even make it to the season healthy.

I think Sutter might be the expendable player right now if anything.
Seriously. Who fills in at center if Crosby and/or Malkin get injured, which isn't exactly a far fetched scenario? Joe Vitale? Brandon Sutter? Come on now.

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10-05-2013, 10:05 PM
  #79
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Screw Z. Adams scores at the NHL level.
Conner is pushing for a spot!

Also, Deslauriers got the start in net, which I'm sure will make somebody mad.

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10-05-2013, 10:05 PM
  #80
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Seconded. I mean, Jesus Christ, our top six didn't even make it to the season healthy.

I think Sutter might be the expendable player right now if anything.

KCD needs to die a swift death and Dupuis might be the one to do it, eventually even Bylsma's thick skull may be penetrated. Adams has more goals than Dupuis and equal points, FFS.
As crazy as it sounds, Sutter is playing like he wants it to end up that way. One or two good plays a game, but if he didn't have that last name and if he wasn't part of the return in the Staal trade, I really do wonder if we wouldn't be mentioning him right after Glass.

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10-05-2013, 10:06 PM
  #81
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wow, Niskanen/Scuderi had an unbelievable combined Corsi of 54 to 17. those are the most dominant numbers I've seen of any game so far this year for a defensive pair. I knew they were tilting the ice but had no idea it was that extreme.

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10-05-2013, 10:08 PM
  #82
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Seriously. Who fills in at center if Crosby and/or Malkin get injured, which isn't exactly a far fetched scenario? Joe Vitale? Brandon Sutter? Come on now.
Any option is far fetched. You can survive for a stint without one, but you're not winning a cup without both healthy. After those two, you've got 4 centers, Sutter, JJ, Jeffrey, and Vitale. You've got Adams, who can play center in a pinch. It's not like one of those guys can't be moved. And, as I said, on the merits, the guy least deserving of the minutes he's getting should be thankful for his last name and the circumstances by which he became a Penguin.

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10-05-2013, 10:08 PM
  #83
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As crazy as it sounds, Sutter is playing like he wants it to end up that way. One or two good plays a game, but if he didn't have that last name and if he wasn't part of the return in the Staal trade, I really do wonder if we wouldn't be mentioning him right after Glass.
I wasn't a fan of Sutter being the main NHL return but he at least is useful defensively which this team did and still does need.

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10-05-2013, 10:09 PM
  #84
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1. BB shouldn't take a shift without Sid (which sadly won't happen) or Geno (which even with Neal out is a question mark sometimes). What I wouldn't give to have two or three of him littered in this lineup, guys who can make plays when a good defensive team collapses on Sid or Geno.

2. Are you really surprised by Maatta? He's going to improve with each game. There will be a few more softies, but, if memory serves, the last four (up to the 10th game) are home against Vancouver, Isles, and Colorado and at Philly. He'll some some talent guys and some talented guys with size. Am really anxious to see how he holds up. IMO, another really impressive thing is how he and Borts complement one another. They accentuate each others strengths.
It's just fun to see a guy besides Crosby or Malkin who can actually pull off sick dekes. Watching The other top sixers handle the puck like a composite hand grenade is really, really tiresome.

As for Maatta, am I surprised? Somewhat. I thought he looked timid last game and nothing like the guy I'm used to seeing. Tonight he looked like himself.

I honestly am not sure if he is ready or not and didn't expect him to get a 9 game look TBTH.

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10-05-2013, 10:09 PM
  #85
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Any option is far fetched. You can survive for a stint without one, but you're not winning a cup without both healthy. After those two, you've got 4 centers, Sutter, JJ, Jeffrey, and Vitale. You've got Adams, who can play center in a pinch. It's not like one of those guys can't be moved. And, as I said, on the merits, the guy least deserving of the minutes he's getting should be thankful for his last name and the circumstances by which he became a Penguin.
Well then imagine what happens when you remove Jeffrey and/or Jokinen from the equation.

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10-05-2013, 10:10 PM
  #86
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As crazy as it sounds, Sutter is playing like he wants it to end up that way. One or two good plays a game, but if he didn't have that last name and if he wasn't part of the return in the Staal trade, I really do wonder if we wouldn't be mentioning him right after Glass.
aside from his overall dominant defensive game since he got here, you mean? he plays some of the toughest minutes in the league and still comes out on the better half of 50% possession numbers. his defensive metrics come out way ahead of Staal's over the past 3 years. he doesn't hit people (though he did flatten someone tonight behind the net) and isn't fancy with the puck though, so a lot of people don't notice him going about his business very effectively.

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10-05-2013, 10:10 PM
  #87
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I wasn't a fan of Sutter being the main NHL return but he at least is useful defensively which this team did and still does need.
Sure. JJ also is useful, as are Vitale and Jeffrey. I'll put it this way: If you asked me which player out of Sutter, JJ, Vitale, and Jeffrey the team could least afford to lose, I'm not sure the answer is Sutter.

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10-05-2013, 10:10 PM
  #88
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the 3rd line has been good offensively, Sutter isn't dominant in that end, but he's not near the top of my complaint list

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10-05-2013, 10:11 PM
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If we have BB on the third line with Kobe and Sutter, then that line can do some damage, and we have 3 legit scoring lines. No way I am giving that up for an at best marginal improvement in the 2nd line. You really can't say that BB with Geno and Neal is THAT much better than JJ on that line. But BB/Sutter/Kobe can be a monster third line, especially if Sutter can bring his game along.

I'm not as resigned as Sutter being awful as everyone else, his regular season last year was solid, he needs to gain confidence in the new system and familiar with linemates, and games like tonight will do that for him.

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10-05-2013, 10:11 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
aside from his overall dominant defensive game since he got here, you mean? he plays some of the toughest minutes in the league and still comes out on the better half of 50% possession numbers. his defensive metrics come out way ahead of Staal's over the past 3 years. he doesn't hit people (though he did flatten someone tonight behind the net) and isn't fancy with the puck though, so a lot of people don't notice him going about his business very effectively.
Yes, Sutter is dominant defensively, and Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis are the best line in hockey against tough defensive teams in the playoffs that don't even bother to use their top two defensemen against it. Exactly.

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10-05-2013, 10:11 PM
  #91
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It's just fun to see a guy besides Crosby or Malkin who can actually pull off sick dekes. Watching The other top sixers handle the puck like a composite hand grenade is really, really tiresome.

As for Maatta, am I surprised? Somewhat. I thought he looked timid last game and nothing like the guy I'm used to seeing. Tonight he looked like himself.

I honestly am not sure if he is ready or not and didn't expect him to get a 9 game look TBTH.
He could make Despres expendable in managements eyes.

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10-05-2013, 10:11 PM
  #92
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the 3rd line has been good offensively, Sutter isn't dominant in that end, but he's not near the top of my complaint list
That's because Glass monopolizes your list (and mine).

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10-05-2013, 10:12 PM
  #93
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Sure. JJ also is useful, as are Vitale and Jeffrey. I'll put it this way: If you asked me which player out of Sutter, JJ, Vitale, and Jeffrey the team could least afford to lose, I'm not sure the answer is Sutter.
The Penguins could have aggressively reshaped the team this off-season if they had decided to move Sutter and some others.

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10-05-2013, 10:12 PM
  #94
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Sure. JJ also is useful, as are Vitale and Jeffrey. I'll put it this way: If you asked me which player out of Sutter, JJ, Vitale, and Jeffrey the team could least afford to lose, I'm not sure the answer is Sutter.
I don't think we are discussing the same points.

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10-05-2013, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
If we have BB on the third line with Kobe and Sutter, then that line can do some damage, and we have 3 legit scoring lines. No way I am giving that up for an at best marginal improvement in the 2nd line. You really can't say that BB with Geno and Neal is THAT much better than JJ on that line. But BB/Sutter/Kobe can be a monster third line, especially if Sutter can bring his game along.

I'm not as resigned as Sutter being awful as everyone else, his regular season last year was solid, he needs to gain confidence in the new system and familiar with linemates, and games like tonight will do that for him.
Yes, because it makes no difference if Malkin and Neal (when he returns) play with Bennett or Jokinen. With Neal out, Jokinen, not Bennett, is the third wheel with Malkin, and is it any wonder that Malkin's pickup in his play today coincided with his getting consistent shifts with Bennett? You want JJ in the top nine when Neal returns, then play him with Sutter and Kobasew. At long last, it's time for this team's best winger to play with Sid or Geno.

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10-05-2013, 10:14 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
The Penguins could have aggressively reshaped the team this off-season if they had decided to move Sutter and some others.
Well, yes, but what reason could there have been for that?

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I don't think we are discussing the same points.
My bad. Re-read. I follow.

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10-05-2013, 10:15 PM
  #97
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On the first bolded point: Sid looking like 2010 form is good given that his linemates are in their Boston form . . . unless, of course, we play Boston.

On the second bolded point, methinks we'll end up seeing the 2007-2009 defensive Geno if this is, systemically, how the Pens are going to play. Just better suited to that than the run and gun 200 foot style. I think Neal is too, and Bennett.
It's tired and old arguing over KCD. We have to at least bring in another quality top 9 forward who can provide the depth scoring when that line inevitably goes quiet against the best the Cup playoffs has to offer.

Beau/Geno/Neal definitely has the ability to be the best line in the league. Neal's injury may work out for us as long as DB allows Beau to grow with Geno. And if Jeffrey builds some chemistry with Sutter, then maybe you'll get your wish.

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10-05-2013, 10:17 PM
  #98
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Yes, Sutter is dominant defensively, and Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis are the best line in hockey against tough defensive teams in the playoffs that don't even bother to use their top two defensemen against it. Exactly.
Great argument against my point on Sutter there. no use even trying to engage in someone like you.

Sutter sucks, KCD blows in the playoffs, Bennet is the answer, Jokinen and Niskanen are expendable. Every single one of your hundreds of daily posts sheds such illuminating light on one or more of these truths. keep it up!

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10-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #99
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I'll have you all know, Tanner Glass is on pace for 410 hits.

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10-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #100
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It's tired and old arguing over KCD. We have to at least bring in another quality top 9 forward who can provide the depth scoring when that line inevitably goes quiet against the best the Cup playoffs has to offer.

Beau/Geno/Neal definitely has the ability to be the best line in the league. Neal's injury may work out for us as long as DB allows Beau to grow with Geno. And if Jeffrey builds some chemistry with Sutter, then maybe you'll get your wish.
1. What do you do with Jokinen then? Centering Gladams?

2. FYI, in the trade thread, I'm on record saying if you get a Palmieri, put him and Bennett with Sid and let them grow during the regular season and then reap the rewards in the playoffs. Put Kunitz with Geno and Neal. Put Duper with Sutter and Chucky. Jeffrey and JJ on line four. That's the type of line that could chip in, especially when you double shift Sid or Geno. The only reason I'm adamant about Bennett with Geno is it's a given that Bylsma is too dumb to see the merit in playing him with Sid, and wasting him until Dupuis or Kunitz retires isn't the answer.

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