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Eller vs Turris

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have?
Lars Eller 221 57.85%
Kyle Turris 161 42.15%
Voters: 382. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #51
Micklebot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Sometimes I wonder why Bylsma don't put Crosby on the 4th line with Joe Viatle and Tanner Glass. He'd definitely break Gretzky's records that way...

I mean, seriously? I did bring up their Corsi QoC from last year, which seem fairly similar. Eller simply produced at a higher clip while playing 5 friggin' minutes less per game, including about 2 minutes less per game on the PP.

I'm not saying he would have challenged for the Art Ross had he played the same kind of minutes Turris did, but it's a pretty fair assessment to think his production would have been even better had he played about 33% more per game (and 3 to 4 times his current PPTOI/G).

Eller simply outperformed Turris last season in worse conditions. Based on that simple fact, I don't really see how Turris can be considered better or more of a "2nd line center" than Eller right now.
Let forget that Turris' team was decimated by injuries leaving his line as the sole focus for opponents top defenders. Yep, he had such an awesome situation it's some wonder he couldn't do more.

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10-06-2013, 01:16 PM
  #52
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Reading this thread you got to wonder why 1st line forwards usually outproduced 3rd line forwards on their own team.

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10-06-2013, 01:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
Reading this thread you got to wonder why 1st line forwards usually outproduced 3rd line forwards on their own team.
Interesting point. Turris was 1st in pts on his team, reading this thread you'd think he was 5th or 6th.

Maybe if Turris was racking up 2nd assists like Eller he'd of done better, but not everybody can be top 20 in 2nd assist /60mins league wide.

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10-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Sometimes I wonder why Bylsma don't put Crosby on the 4th line with Joe Viatle and Tanner Glass. He'd definitely break Gretzky's records that way...

I mean, seriously? I did bring up their Corsi QoC from last year, which seem fairly similar. Eller simply produced at a higher clip while playing 5 friggin' minutes less per game, including about 2 minutes less per game on the PP.

I'm not saying he would have challenged for the Art Ross had he played the same kind of minutes Turris did, but it's a pretty fair assessment to think his production would have been even better had he played about 33% more per game (and 3 to 4 times his current PPTOI/G).

Eller simply outperformed Turris last season in worse conditions. Based on that simple fact, I don't really see how Turris can be considered better or more of a "2nd line center" than Eller right now.
Turris played all season playing in a role way above his head on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. That said, he did lead a team that went to the 2nd round, THROUGH your team, in goals and points in both the regular season and the playoffs. I'm not saying that Turris is more of a 2nd line C than Eller, because I believe both are, but I am saying that in no way can we assume that Eller would have outperformed Turris in the similar situation. As I said, Eller is one of my favorite players in the league, definitely more of a fanboy than I am for Turris, but I doubt Eller would have filled the role that Turris did last year.

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10-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
Interesting point. Turris was 1st in pts on his team, reading this thread you'd think he was 5th or 6th.
Everyone knows the state of your team last year with the big guns out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
Maybe if Turris was racking up 2nd assists like Eller he'd of done better, but not everybody can be top 20 in 2nd assist /60mins league wide.
Wow, now it's the 2nd assists vs 1st assists arguments. You guys are trying hard.

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10-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGV View Post
Reading this thread you got to wonder why 1st line forwards usually outproduced 3rd line forwards on their own team.
Just goes to show you how good # 1 centers really are, they have be matched up against 1st lines and top pairing defenders every game.

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10-06-2013, 01:55 PM
  #57
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Also, Eller did not outproduce Turris last year. Eller had 30 points in 47 games, Turris had 38 in 58 games. Eller was 6th on his team in scoring, on a team with 10 guys scoring over 25 points. Turris led his team in scoring and only 2 other players topped 25 points. Lets use a little perspective. Eller would have scored more if he had the minutes and opportunities that Turris did, but he would have scored much less because of the team he was on. Ends up pretty even...

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10-06-2013, 02:33 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Absolutely no logical reason to go with Turris at this point in time.

In 2012/2013, Turris had in average 19:38 minutes of ice time/game, with 2:44 PPTOI/G and 1:25 SHTOI/G. Due to the injury to Spezza, he was basically put in the best possible situation to produce by having plenty of ice time/PP time.

Eller had 14:49 TOI/G on average (almost a whole 5 minutes less per game than Turris), only 0:42 PPTOI/G and played slightly more on the PK, playing on average 1:28 SHTOI/G.

Despite all that, Eller finished with one more point than Turris in two less games while also having a better +/- differential.

Eller was also the 40th ranked center in PPG (some notable names in these waters: Carter, Seguin, M. Richards, Krejci, J. Staal, Marleau, Pavelski, Plekanec...) in the league despite being used as a third line center and is still improving his game constantly as of today. To me, he has the potential to become a very solid two-way 2nd line center and more.
You forgot to mention that Turris was playing against top pairings and top defensive units whereas Eller was playing against 3rd fiddles.

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10-06-2013, 02:35 PM
  #59
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I'm excited for Turris to prove EVERYONE wrong this season. All the debbie downers, of course.

He'll be playing his first full season with OTT, finally. His results will surprise a lot of people.

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10-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newerabegins View Post
You forgot to mention that Turris was playing against top pairings and top defensive units whereas Eller was playing against 3rd fiddles.
He already posted their corsi thing and it was almost the exact same

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10-06-2013, 02:45 PM
  #61
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Ah Corsi, when you have nothing else to base your point on.

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10-06-2013, 02:55 PM
  #62
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Eller pretty easily. Better player that is getting better, meanwhile Turris continues to leverage his draft position.

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10-06-2013, 03:01 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newerabegins View Post
I'm excited for Turris to prove EVERYONE wrong this season. All the debbie downers, of course.

He'll be playing his first full season with OTT, finally. His results will surprise a lot of people.
Funny because Eller is outproducing Turris. Eller was also the C with the most ice time yesterday (more than Plekanec).

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10-06-2013, 03:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by newerabegins View Post
Ah Corsi, when you have nothing else to base your point on.
So the only thing he's basing his point on is actual stats, and that's a bad thing?

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10-06-2013, 03:04 PM
  #65
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Eller, and it's not that close to me.

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10-06-2013, 03:05 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Funny because Eller is outproducing Turris. Eller was also the C with the most ice time yesterday (more than Plekanec).
It's funny cause Turris had the most ice time of any senator forward last night ( more than Spezza)Over 20 minutes. And yes Eller has 1 more point. The ignorance in this thread is something else.

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10-06-2013, 03:19 PM
  #67
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Kyle Turris has been the best Ottawa Senator in his team's first two games.
He looks energetic, engaged, and creative.

Lars Eller can be a gamebreaker at times, but he has long 8-12 game stretches where he disappears.

While Turris was guilty of this a lot in the second half last year, there's no doubt in my mind that Kyle Turris has more potential to develop into a first-line player than Lars Eller does.

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10-06-2013, 03:19 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Andre Benoit Bawls View Post
Also, Eller did not outproduce Turris last year. Eller had 30 points in 47 games, Turris had 38 in 58 games. Eller was 6th on his team in scoring, on a team with 10 guys scoring over 25 points. Turris led his team in scoring and only 2 other players topped 25 points. Lets use a little perspective. Eller would have scored more if he had the minutes and opportunities that Turris did, but he would have scored much less because of the team he was on. Ends up pretty even...
Turris had 29 pts in 48 games. Eller had 30 pts n 46 games. Playoff stats arent included into a players season stats

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10-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by samsquanch9 View Post
Turris had 29 pts in 48 games. Eller had 30 pts n 46 games. Playoff stats arent included into a players season stats
Personally, I count the playoffs... they are a sort of important part of a players season and I have no clue why one wouldnt include them.

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10-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #70
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Reading this thread it would seem like Eller is head and shoulders above Turris. They are close, but Turris just stepped it up big time in the playoffs last year. He's also started this season off smoothly, and no reason to think he can't put up 60 points while being great defensively.

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10-06-2013, 03:30 PM
  #71
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I'm a neutral- I don't like the Sens or Habs.

Kyle Turris is red-hot going back to last year's playoffs and to me, over the first few games has been a much more dynamic player than Eller.

Since 'captain' Spezza will inevitably get injured at some point, it would not surprise me if Paul MacLean gives Turris a 1st-line opportunity, something I just don't see Eller getting.

The original question I believe was who has the ability to develop more, and I think Turris has a much higher ceiling than Eller, period. Throw all the stats you want at me, Turris is just a more dynamic offensive player.

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10-06-2013, 03:35 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Andre Benoit Bawls View Post
Personally, I count the playoffs... they are a sort of important part of a players season and I have no clue why one wouldnt include them.
Yeah its important but it doesnt add to his season stats. You cant say he scored more points than eller because he had 9 extra playoff games that eller didnt when it isnt even a part of the regular season. Turris was outproduced by eller last year but he had a good playoffs thats just how the nhl works.

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10-06-2013, 03:38 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by samsquanch9 View Post
Yeah its important but it doesnt add to his season stats. You cant say he scored more points than eller because he had 9 extra playoff games that eller didnt when it isnt even a part of the regular season. Turris was outproduced by eller last year but he had a good playoffs thats just how the nhl works.
Okay, it doesnt add to his season stats, it adds to what he accomplished last year. Separate it if you want but it doesnt change a thing.

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10-06-2013, 03:44 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Andre Benoit Bawls View Post
Okay, it doesnt add to his season stats, it adds to what he accomplished last year. Separate it if you want but it doesnt change a thing.
It changes the statment: "turris outproduced eller". He didnt. He had a good playoffs but eller outproduced turris last year thats all im saying

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10-06-2013, 03:46 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsquanch9 View Post
Yeah its important but it doesnt add to his season stats. You cant say he scored more points than eller because he had 9 extra playoff games that eller didnt when it isnt even a part of the regular season. Turris was outproduced by eller last year but he had a good playoffs thats just how the nhl works.
I think (could be wrong) that his point was that they both produced at the same pace over the entire year, i.e. Turris produced at about 30 pts per 46 games just as Eller did. To be honest, I think comparing point production from last year is a bit dicey. 46-48 games is a pretty small sample, and one streak (hot or cold) makes a big difference.

I see no reason for either team to be anything but ecstatic with their respective players, so I honestly find it amusing how many people here seem to think it a clear choice either way.

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