HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 2 Pens vs. Sabres

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-06-2013, 11:31 AM
  #251
LetangInTheSO
Registered User
 
LetangInTheSO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country:
Posts: 2,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
the problem with sutter is that he has zero intensity.
You know, I've been an ardent Sutter supporter in the wake of a lot of criticism heaped upon him by HF, but I think this is a fair criticism. It's clear that he's often not engaged physically/mentally out there. When he is, he is a very strong 3C but when he's not he's a very mediocre one.

LetangInTheSO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 11:34 AM
  #252
ColePens
Global Moderator
Lounge Hero
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 42,152
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
Disagree with you, Degan. His speed/tenacity definitely is needed on this team. He's been hitting lately, too.

ColePens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 11:37 AM
  #253
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 38,964
vCash: 500
Dupuis is, simply put, better than everyone else in that bottom 6. He would upgrade the third line no matter which of them he replaced.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #254
DegenX
#FireMorehouse
 
DegenX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Disagree with you, Degan. His speed/tenacity definitely is needed on this team. He's been hitting lately, too.
I'm not saying that Duper sucks. And I agree, Duper does have that combination of speed and tenacity that makes him a valuable asset. I'm talking more about how he fits in the line up.

I think we agree that BB should be with Sid, correct? So if we take Duper off that line, where do we put him?

JJ is working well with Geno, and Duper hasn't really meshed with Geno the few times it's been tried. JJ also has the extra motivation of being in a contact year and wanting to make the Olympic team, so I see him doing whatever it takes to stick to that line. I don't think he'll be back next season though ... which is fine. I'm curious to see how Zlobin does when he comes back from his injury, he might be a good fit for Geno and Neal. And, of course, there's the ever popular Kulemin option. He's having a good start to the season, though, so he may price himself out of our range if he keeps it up.

So, no Duper on the top two lines. Jeffrey, Sutter, and Kobasew have been playing well together. Jeffrey and Sutter especially seem to click. We've yanked Jeffrey around enough, and I think Sutter will only benefit from having consistent line mates. The line is not the old Staal line, no, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I'd rather leave that line alone. And Kobasew's on a one year deal. He has the motivation to play well. Hopefully, Das Kuhn can stick in that spot next year, or maybe on Geno's line in place of JJ.

Fourth line, then? I just don't think he really fits in the line up. We could shuffle him to the third, and Kobasew to the fourth, but what about next season? Right now, Duper's value is good, we need the cap space and there's other player's who just fit in the line up better.

*Ninja Edit* Also, as long as Duper is on the team, he'll be on Sid's line, we both know that. And we've debated that issue all summer long.


Last edited by DegenX: 10-06-2013 at 12:13 PM.
DegenX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 12:27 PM
  #255
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 34,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
Ok what happened to our Penguins? 2 games played and 1goal against?

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #256
MonsterSurge
Registered User
 
MonsterSurge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,387
vCash: 500
Random question: How many teeth did Jeffrey lose after that fall?

MonsterSurge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 01:02 PM
  #257
alcanalz
whys and wherefores
 
alcanalz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,788
vCash: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Our team has locked it down in the past, so you can't just point to JM for every good thing we do defensively. We also played two bad teams, and MAF has been really solid so far.

alcanalz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 01:44 PM
  #258
orby
Registered User
 
orby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh/Edinboro
Posts: 1,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
Our team has locked it down in the past, so you can't just point to JM for every good thing we do defensively. We also played two bad teams, and MAF has been really solid so far.
As excited as I want to get about Fleury and the defense looking solid, I think you can chalk up their total dominance in these past two games to the awful quality of their opponents. If they can play this well against contending teams then I'll be satisfied, but for now it's tough to say whether any serious improvement has been made.

orby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #259
Nac Bomb
Registered User
 
Nac Bomb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 23
vCash: 500
Sutter looks good out there, he seems to be skating a lot better than he did last year, minus a couple spurts in the playoffs. He back checks well and gets in good position. He's still not a perfect 3rd line C, but already he looks like an improvement over last year.

IMO, the same complaints we give to Sutter about not being a physical presence can be given to Jeffrey. I liked Jeffrey's game, but there were times when he laid off finishing checks.

Adams and Glass, hate 'em if you want, and there's no doubt they have their limitations, but as fourth line players they have shown good compete these first two games. Glass, in particular, has finished every check that he can.

Love Maata, would like to see him get PP time on the top unit, looks so smooth out there. Depending on Pouliot's PP capabilities, i could see Maata being the QB of the future. Wouldnt be heart broken if he gets sent down, like many of you have touched on, the true test will be how he does against bigger, tougher forwards. I'm extremely curious to see how he defends against the cycle from a team with a more accomplished offense.

Nac Bomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 01:48 PM
  #260
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by orby View Post
As excited as I want to get about Fleury and the defense looking solid, I think you can chalk up their total dominance in these past two games to the awful quality of their opponents. If they can play this well against contending teams then I'll be satisfied, but for now it's tough to say whether any serious improvement has been made.
We will have to wait a little longer, our next game is the Canes. Hope we blast them out of the water. Also the thing about that is Pens normally looked bad against bad teams because they "look past" them, they are not doing that. Call it bad teams or not but Pens are not looking past these "bad teams". This might just be Martin's doing because if there was no martin we would have been freaking out at how we have been playing. Preseason was different, it's mostly about looking at rookies then any team part.


Last edited by 66-29-33: 10-06-2013 at 02:02 PM.
66-29-33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:01 PM
  #261
ColePens
Global Moderator
Lounge Hero
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 42,152
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
I noticed on the bench JM doesn't even really stand next to the defense. I don't know if we can just celebrate him. There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes we will never know.

ColePens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:01 PM
  #262
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,218
vCash: 500
A bit off topic, but I wonder if Zatkoff will get the start against Florida on Friday.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #263
ColePens
Global Moderator
Lounge Hero
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 42,152
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
And remember folks, regular season has NEVER been an issue. This is why last year going all-in was tough. If we lose, the eyes stay focused on what they do in the playoffs. The Pens could win 82 games 8-0 every single game. If they get knocked out of the postseason, heads will roll.

Is it a realistic expectation? Absolutely not. Unfortunately they got themselves in this position. And truthfully, it ain't too shabby of a position.

Let's enjoy this and then we are all going to be an emotional wreck come playoff time.

ColePens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:07 PM
  #264
vabm8
Injured Reserve
 
vabm8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 15,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
We will have to wait a little longer, our next game is the Canes. Hope we blast them out of the water. Also the thing about that is Pens normally looked bad against bad teams because they "look past" them, they are not doing that. Call it bad teams or not but Pens are not looking past these "bad teams". This might just be Martin's doing because if there was no martin we would have been freaking out at how we have been playing. Preseason was different, it's mostly about looking at rookies then any team part.
I've noticed that and it's a good thing. I don't think they're going full tilt, whether that be because it's early or because of weak teams, but it's a marked improvement. It looks like a bad habit is being corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
A bit off topic, but I wonder if Zatkoff will get the start against Florida on Friday.
I've been wondering when they'd give him a shot, the offensively anemic teams are a good place to ease him in. It would also be helpful for assessing Fleury.

vabm8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:12 PM
  #265
ColePens
Global Moderator
Lounge Hero
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 42,152
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
This is such a random thought, but it was an immediate reaction:

When Fleury has been in the post-game interviews, it almost seems like he doesn't care. Almost as if he is half-assing it and almost wants to show Pittsburgh he can really play goalie. Even like we are the enemy for booing him and cheering Vokoun so hard. When he raised the Jolly Roger he did it quickly and put it down.

Anyone else get this vibe? It was the 2nd time I've noticed it. Maybe I'm just tricking my own mind to think it. Figured if it's happening, someone else noticed it.

ColePens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:15 PM
  #266
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 38,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
This is such a random thought, but it was an immediate reaction:

When Fleury has been in the post-game interviews, it almost seems like he doesn't care. Almost as if he is half-assing it and almost wants to show Pittsburgh he can really play goalie. Even like we are the enemy for booing him and cheering Vokoun so hard. When he raised the Jolly Roger he did it quickly and put it down.

Anyone else get this vibe? It was the 2nd time I've noticed it. Maybe I'm just tricking my own mind to think it. Figured if it's happening, someone else noticed it.
I don't get to watch post game stuff on center ice, but I hope so. I hope he got seriously talked to in the offseason. I hope he feels the burner on his ass. I want to see what he can do when he is playing to prove people wrong instead of being happy go lucky with everyone telling him how good he is. We've seen that every year. It doesn't work.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:18 PM
  #267
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
This is such a random thought, but it was an immediate reaction:

When Fleury has been in the post-game interviews, it almost seems like he doesn't care. Almost as if he is half-assing it and almost wants to show Pittsburgh he can really play goalie. Even like we are the enemy for booing him and cheering Vokoun so hard. When he raised the Jolly Roger he did it quickly and put it down.

Anyone else get this vibe? It was the 2nd time I've noticed it. Maybe I'm just tricking my own mind to think it. Figured if it's happening, someone else noticed it.
The guy's work ethic is on par of Penners. He clearly does not care, he didn't even wanna improve his game after that Flyer series after Shero telling him to, he probably would not have if Shero told him to do it and probably threatened to buy him out if he does not but even then he didn't have the greatest of showings, Shero just said it was "OK" for him training, so pretty "meh".

66-29-33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 02:49 PM
  #268
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
Our team has locked it down in the past, so you can't just point to JM for every good thing we do defensively. We also played two bad teams, and MAF has been really solid so far.
The Penguins locked it down for a lot of those games during the 15-game winning streak last year. Then come playoff time, "HURR DURR! LET'S MAKE BLIND PASSES IN OUR OWN ZONE AND AT THE BLUE LINE! HURR DURR!"

Let's wait until the playoffs to see if Jacques Martin has any effect on the team.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:00 PM
  #269
alcanalz
whys and wherefores
 
alcanalz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,788
vCash: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
The Penguins locked it down for a lot of those games during the 15-game winning streak last year. Then come playoff time, "HURR DURR! LET'S MAKE BLIND PASSES IN OUR OWN ZONE AND AT THE BLUE LINE! HURR DURR!"

Let's wait until the playoffs to see if Jacques Martin has any effect on the team.
And yet our defense wasn't why we lost that series, it was our offense.

For all the *****ing about our D and goaltending, we lost in the ECF last year because of our offense. When people talk about the Pens, it's always "sure they'll score, but can MAF / their D hold its' own?"

I have no idea why that's never brought up.

alcanalz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:07 PM
  #270
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 38,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
And yet our defense wasn't why we lost that series, it was our offense.

For all the *****ing about our D and goaltending, we lost in the ECF last year because of our offense. When people talk about the Pens, it's always "sure they'll score, but can MAF / their D hold its' own?"

I have no idea why that's never brought up.
our defense couldn't support the offense while playing good defense though. Aside from Letang and Martin, they completely stopped supporting the forwards in the O Zone against Boston. That loss was a team effort.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:13 PM
  #271
alcanalz
whys and wherefores
 
alcanalz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,788
vCash: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
our defense couldn't support the offense while playing good defense though. Aside from Letang and Martin, they completely stopped supporting the forwards in the O Zone against Boston. That loss was a team effort.
I definitely agree it was a team effort and you're right. Just wanted to point out our goalscoring was anomalously our downfall.

alcanalz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:19 PM
  #272
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 38,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
I definitely agree it was a team effort and you're right. Just wanted to point out our goalscoring was anomalously our downfall.
absolutely.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:32 PM
  #273
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I have wanted to see 2 powerplay units for years. Not so much Sid, but when Geno has that entire wall to use...the powerplay explodes. We have enough guys to make 2 solid units, and yeah, the competition between the two wouldn't hurt matters at all. The only downside of this theory from what I've seen in the past is that coaches tend to take players in positions that work, and then throw all the best pieces to work expecting it to do the same, and it never does. If we have 2 units, and both units work, you have to keep it two units.
1. What units would you think? Sid-Kunitz-Duper-Martin/Jokinen-Letang and Geno-Neal-Beauner-Jokinen/Martin-Nisky (assuming he's here), with who gets Martin or Jokinen depending upon which unit goes out first?

2. I will say this whole 'one will get more time is a straw man'. Make the rule simple: Fresher unit goes out first. Sid or Geno is first man on from his unit when the change starts. I think you'll see the minutes work out pretty equally (more equally than the ES minutes do ).

3. I do like the suggestion that two units may inadvertently yet productively fuel competition between Sid and Geno.

4. Will Sid and Geno play rocks, paper, scissors to determine who does NOT end up with Letang?

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:36 PM
  #274
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
It's all about what you expect. To me, he looks like a 4th line center. Good defensive responsibilities and he gets eaten alive in any corner. I haven't seen him win a corner battle since before last year's playoffs.
Cole, I want the Brett Sutter I saw in Carolina. His job, last year he was there, was covering Geno. And, he absolutely blanketed him. Getting outmuscled didn't matter. He did anything and everything within and a little outside the rules to get the job done. Played with absolute heart and tenacity. THAT really is what has been missing from his game since he got to Pittsburgh. I don't expect Staal. I think the same thing goes for you. But, I think both of us expect a little of his dad in his game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I have no clue how he has been adopted as the scapegoat. Just all of a sudden people turned on him.

I just don't think the guy can carry the load offensively. I think Kobasew will help him in that regard.
Expecting him to bring the tenacity to his game that he showed in Carolina and judging him for not doing that is NOT scapegoating him.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:42 PM
  #275
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
The guy's work ethic is on par of Penners. He clearly does not care, he didn't even wanna improve his game after that Flyer series after Shero telling him to, he probably would not have if Shero told him to do it and probably threatened to buy him out if he does not but even then he didn't have the greatest of showings, Shero just said it was "OK" for him training, so pretty "meh".
1. I don't think Shero threatens.

2. The Penner comparisons have to stop. First Elmer's buffet work ethic compared to Penner. Now this with Fleury.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.