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Old
10-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #76
shinchanyo
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What I see, time and time again, is people complaining about bottom 6 scoring when our top 6 cant score consistently. Why the pass for them? If they produced, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Its bizarre that the top 6, especially anyone outside of Nash and Stepan, can continue to not produce offensively and we still see so many posts complaining about Boyle and Pyatt.
Agreed our top line underperforms by a solid 15-20 goals. We also don't pin teams in their own zone, create breakaways or beat teams up physically. We're too average, we need to become specialists in SOMETHING besides taking pucks to the head. I do think that getting the D involved in the O will start to generate more from each line.

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10-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #77
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Watching the Leafs, I wish we would have picked up Mason Raymond for the 1 mill...he's been outstanding for them so far and he has the speed and skill the Rangers could use right now.

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10-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Pyatt-Boyle-Fast was perhaps our best line against Phoenix. They didn't create good scoring chances, but they outplayed their opposition which is more than what can be said for the other lines. Pyatt earned every second of his 13 minutes of 5v5 ice time. They certainly played closest to their potential compared to the other lines. If they can bring that every night, we have a really good third line no matter what people's opinions are of the individual players.

Miller was OTOH brutal along with D. Moore, that line was constantly stuck in their own end.
Stop with the corsi crap. That line did nothing.

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10-06-2013, 01:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Once Hagelin is back and Fasth is moved back down, the Pack are going to be stacked.

Fasth, Kristo, Kreider, Lindberg, Miller, Hrivik.

That's an elite top 6 I would think.
That's true. Unfortunately the Rangers' bottom six will suck

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10-07-2013, 12:03 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
.. because in your eyes, Boyle is a big guy who doesn't fight...
...or skate well, or score, or hit, or pass...

I think many fans sometimes forget that just because he's good enough to make the Rangers doesn't mean he's any good. To say he's one of the best defensive players is plain silly. He's not even one of the best defensive forwards on this team.


There are many 4th liners I'd rather have than Boyle. Even if he were the BEST 4th liner in the NHL (he's not) there are, at least, 270 players who are better.

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10-07-2013, 12:18 AM
  #81
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Can we just all agree that Boyle is simply a bottom-6 forward and move on?

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10-07-2013, 12:22 AM
  #82
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Can we just all agree that Boyle is simply a bottom-6 forward and move on?
Yea once the top six does some more scoring.

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10-07-2013, 12:28 AM
  #83
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Yea once the top six does some more scoring.
They've played one game.




One.




Uno.






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10-07-2013, 12:28 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 3rdlineglory View Post
Yea once the top six does some more scoring.
That's kinda my point.

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10-07-2013, 12:37 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
They've played one game.




One.




Uno.





I understand, but the issue was pretty much the same last season. Trust me, I want the top six and/or the powerplay to carry the offense while the forward prospects develop in Hartford, but it needs to happen first or else the Rangers are gonna struggle to score again.

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10-07-2013, 12:51 AM
  #86
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That's kinda my point.
Alright, I guess I didn't get that out of your previous post.

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10-07-2013, 12:53 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by WhatThePuck View Post
Watching the Leafs, I wish we would have picked up Mason Raymond for the 1 mill...he's been outstanding for them so far and he has the speed and skill the Rangers could use right now.
Agreed. But from what I gather, AV didn't seem to like him much.

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10-07-2013, 12:57 AM
  #88
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Mason Raymond is incredibly inconsistent and goes through a lot of streaks of doing nothing at all. He drove AV mad in VAN. He won't be playing this well much longer.

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10-07-2013, 01:07 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Gresch04 View Post
...or skate well, or score, or hit, or pass...


Are you even trying?

Quote:
I think many fans sometimes forget that just because he's good enough to make the Rangers doesn't mean he's any good.
Glen Sather went on Edmonton radio and freely acknowledged that a number of teams were interested in Brian Boyle. This being in a summer environment where teams had little room for error with the Salary Cap and guys like Mason Raymond, Mikhail Grabovski, and Damien Brunner struggled to find places to go.

From this knowledge being presented, we have three options.

1. Glen Sather is lying.
2. A number of NHL organizations are really stupid and you, random HF poster, knows better.
3. Brian Boyle, though hardly a super star or even top-six forward, is a quality player who can contribute to a team's success.

You tell me which is most likely here.


Quote:
To say he's one of the best defensive players is plain silly. He's not even one of the best defensive forwards on this team.
Most defensive metrics say otherwise. But hey, screw fancystats. You actually WATCH the game with your own eyes... you know... the same eyes which were certain that Brian Boyle doesn't hit.




Quote:
There are many 4th liners I'd rather have than Boyle. Even if he were the BEST 4th liner in the NHL (he's not) there are, at least, 270 players who are better.
Which means ****-all. There are hundreds of players in the NHL superior to Michal Handzus. Yet the Blackhawks went out of their way to acquire him at the deadline last season. Not because they expected him to play better than those hundreds of players. They didn't need him to be. They just needed him to fill a lesser yet still important role. I don't see what you're trying to prove here. Nobody is claiming Brian Boyle is an All-Star. Nobody is calling for him to center Rick Nash on the top line. He fills a role and statistics show he does it well. Stanley Cup and Jack Adams winner John Tortorella saw his value. Even with Tortorella departing, the Rangers, with all sorts of impressive and experienced hockey minds weighing in, saw it worthwhile to keep him despite other teams calling to acquire him.

But yeah, I get it. The statistics are misleading and these numerous professionals, with all sorts of success and elaborate resumés, don't know what they're talking about. Gresch04 knows the true, empirical ability of Brian Boyle.

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10-07-2013, 01:39 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post


Are you even trying?



Glen Sather went on Edmonton radio and freely acknowledged that a number of teams were interested in Brian Boyle. This being in a summer environment where teams had little room for error with the Salary Cap and guys like Mason Raymond, Mikhail Grabovski, and Damien Brunner struggled to find places to go.

From this knowledge being presented, we have three options.

1. Glen Sather is lying.
2. A number of NHL organizations are really stupid and you, random HF poster, knows better.
3. Brian Boyle, though hardly a super star or even top-six forward, is a quality player who can contribute to a team's success.

You tell me which is most likely here.




Most defensive metrics say otherwise. But hey, screw fancystats. You actually WATCH the game with your own eyes... you know... the same eyes which were certain that Brian Boyle doesn't hit.






Which means ****-all. There are hundreds of players in the NHL superior to Michal Handzus. Yet the Blackhawks went out of their way to acquire him at the deadline last season. Not because they expected him to play better than those hundreds of players. They didn't need him to be. They just needed him to fill a lesser yet still important role. I don't see what you're trying to prove here. Nobody is claiming Brian Boyle is an All-Star. Nobody is calling for him to center Rick Nash on the top line. He fills a role and statistics show he does it well. Stanley Cup and Jack Adams winner John Tortorella saw his value. Even with Tortorella departing, the Rangers, with all sorts of impressive and experienced hockey minds weighing in, saw it worthwhile to keep him despite other teams calling to acquire him.

But yeah, I get it. The statistics are misleading and these numerous professionals, with all sorts of success and elaborate resumés, don't know what they're talking about. Gresch04 knows the true, empirical ability of Brian Boyle.
Way to step up with some facts and back it up with reason. A fan is entitled to displace his feelings regarding a lack of team success on a player, happens all the time, teams always have fan bases that love a good whipping boy, happened with Rosival when he was here, yet he just won a cup excelling in a role that helps a team win, and not as a top pair minute muncher, and it will probably happen with Boyle.

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Old
10-07-2013, 05:20 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
I don't think AV did him any favors playing wing on the 4th line.

I'm sure Fast is next, when Hagelin is back..

I know some of these kids aren't totally NHL ready, but a couple of them are better options than Pyatt. I mean our 3rd line is, Boyle and Pyatt. That's not cup caliber. When you consider the top 6 is good, not great.
Well... this team isn't "cup caliber" so... there ya go. What better options do we have in our system than Boyle and Pyatt? Surely if we had better options we would be using them, no?

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10-07-2013, 07:14 AM
  #92
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J.T. Miller, the 20-year-old winger who played with Moore and Dorsett (and on the first power play unit) in the 4-1 defeat to the Coyotes, scored two goals for the AHL Wolf Pack on Sunday after having been demoted on Saturday.

The return to health of Ryan Callahan, who will make his season debut against the Kings, prompted the decision.

“After talking with [general manager Glen Sather and assistant GM Jeff Gorton] about the numbers situation, we felt with J.T. being such a young player, he needed to play,” Vigneault said. “Having two extra forwards didn’t make a lot of sense and I knew Arron would be in the lineup sooner rather than later.

A lot of times at the start of the season, veterans get a longer look and longer opportunity.”
http://nypost.com/2013/10/06/asham-p...e-for-rangers/

Those guys better produce.

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10-07-2013, 07:49 AM
  #93
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Nash – Stepan – Cally
Pouliot – Brassard – MZA
Boyle – Richards - Pyatt
Asham – Moore - Dorsett



Waiting 2 games for a smaller team: Fast

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Old
10-07-2013, 07:55 AM
  #94
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That third line looks awful. If that's the fourth line, I hope they go with

Richards - Stepan - Nash
Zuccarello - Brassard - Callahan
Pouliot - Boyle - Pyatt
Asham - Moore - Dorsett

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10-07-2013, 08:13 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
That third line looks awful. If that's the fourth line, I hope they go with

Richards - Stepan - Nash
Zuccarello - Brassard - Callahan
Pouliot - Boyle - Pyatt
Asham - Moore - Dorsett
Statistically I cannot agree

Bucky Richards 993 GP – 284 G – 610 A – 894 PTs 0,91 PPG / $6,666,667 Cap hit
Taylor Pyatt 873 GP – 146 G – 153 A – 299 PTs 0,34 PPG /$1,550,000 Cap hit
Byron Boyle 343 GP – 52 G – 41 A – 93 PTs 0,27 PPG / $1,700,000 Cap hit

But in reality you are most likely right
All 3 are also in a contract year (Richards in a different way...)
Could mean that they wanna prove something
Entitlement or Suckage???

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Old
10-07-2013, 08:39 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
You took what he meant to seriously. The bottom line is Boyle makes this team better because of his defensive play. He skates well enough, is solid on the dot, and PKs very well. He was great in the opener. You just don't see those things and never will because in your eyes, Boyle is a big guy who doesn't fight...
Willie Huber(RIP) syndrome.

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10-07-2013, 08:54 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post


Are you even trying?



Glen Sather went on Edmonton radio and freely acknowledged that a number of teams were interested in Brian Boyle. This being in a summer environment where teams had little room for error with the Salary Cap and guys like Mason Raymond, Mikhail Grabovski, and Damien Brunner struggled to find places to go.

From this knowledge being presented, we have three options.

1. Glen Sather is lying.
2. A number of NHL organizations are really stupid and you, random HF poster, knows better.
3. Brian Boyle, though hardly a super star or even top-six forward, is a quality player who can contribute to a team's success.

You tell me which is most likely here.




Most defensive metrics say otherwise. But hey, screw fancystats. You actually WATCH the game with your own eyes... you know... the same eyes which were certain that Brian Boyle doesn't hit.






Which means ****-all. There are hundreds of players in the NHL superior to Michal Handzus. Yet the Blackhawks went out of their way to acquire him at the deadline last season. Not because they expected him to play better than those hundreds of players. They didn't need him to be. They just needed him to fill a lesser yet still important role. I don't see what you're trying to prove here. Nobody is claiming Brian Boyle is an All-Star. Nobody is calling for him to center Rick Nash on the top line. He fills a role and statistics show he does it well. Stanley Cup and Jack Adams winner John Tortorella saw his value. Even with Tortorella departing, the Rangers, with all sorts of impressive and experienced hockey minds weighing in, saw it worthwhile to keep him despite other teams calling to acquire him.

But yeah, I get it. The statistics are misleading and these numerous professionals, with all sorts of success and elaborate resumés, don't know what they're talking about. Gresch04 knows the true, empirical ability of Brian Boyle.
Have to hand it to the man. Boyle hits. This has been proven. But he's still a liability when asked to move much further beyond a 4th line role. But that's not his fault it's the organizations. You have to put your guys in positions to succeed and too often he is taken out of his best roles and is instead put in a position to frustrate and infuriate fans. He was painful to watch at times last year

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Old
10-07-2013, 10:00 AM
  #98
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Have to hand it to the man. Boyle hits. This has been proven. But he's still a liability when asked to move much further beyond a 4th line role. But that's not his fault it's the organizations. You have to put your guys in positions to succeed and too often he is taken out of his best roles and is instead put in a position to frustrate and infuriate fans. He was painful to watch at times last year
Truth be told, the younger players are liabilities too at this point. You hit the nail on the head with this being the organization's fault, not Brian Boyle's.

Sather's consistent failure to build a roster with any plan or vision has seemingly blurred the lines for a lot of fans when they start getting into conversations about roles. In a vacuum, Brian Boyle should be a suitable option for the bottom 6. The fact Sather has built offenses consisting of supposed top 6 players that cannot consistently score goals is the true issue here. How that permeates down to "Brian Boyle shouldn't be on the 3rd line because he can't score goals" is beyond me.

Its not like we have anyone waiting in the wings to bust out offensively in a 3rd line spot -- and even if we did, they'd be in the top 6 around here. Instead, we pat guys on the back like Zuccarello who, judging by this board, is the most dynamic forward thats produced at such a pedestrian rate in league history, while simultaneously chastising Brian Boyle, who has a completely different role, for not scoring.

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10-07-2013, 10:06 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Statistically I cannot agree

Bucky Richards 993 GP – 284 G – 610 A – 894 PTs 0,91 PPG / $6,666,667 Cap hit
Taylor Pyatt 873 GP – 146 G – 153 A – 299 PTs 0,34 PPG /$1,550,000 Cap hit
Byron Boyle 343 GP – 52 G – 41 A – 93 PTs 0,27 PPG / $1,700,000 Cap hit

But in reality you are most likely right
All 3 are also in a contract year (Richards in a different way...)
Could mean that they wanna prove something
Entitlement or Suckage???
Player for player they're not awful. Richards can be great if he bounces back, I like Boyle and don't mind Pyatt. I just think those three on the same line would be a disaster. Boyle and Pyatt aren't bad defensively, but that line would be terribly slow.

Offensively for the Rangers Richards has only looked good when playing with other good passers with some creativity. Neither Boyle nor Pyatt brings any of that. Now you could play Richards with Brass and Zucc, but that line wouldn't be up to scratch defensively.

I don't see it working.

So: You keep Richards on the wing, try to get something going along with Nash and Stepan. You inject Cally on that 2nd line, a clear upgrade over Pouliot. he should be able to get quite a few goals playing alongside those good passers and provide the defensive presence that the line might be missing. The third line isn't optimal - I still think Boyle is best suited at 4C/LW - but until the kids are ready or Moore can do third line duty, he's our best option. So you play him with Pyatt and Pouliot on the wings. BP has more skating speed than Richards and should be better suited for the third line than Richards is anyway.

Richards is the better center, but not on the third line.

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10-07-2013, 10:36 AM
  #100
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I'm glad Miller was sent down, he has had 1 good NHL game in the last 2 years and that was his NHL debut last season. I'm excited to see him play when he is NHL ready - I thought he was great in the World Junior's last year.

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