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Who would you like to see as the next coach of the Nashville Predators?

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Old
10-08-2013, 02:07 AM
  #26
sparkle twin
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Laviolette ... ... we need his fire.
Can someone tell me if he was this fiery in Carolina? If he was I honestly don't remember him being like that.

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10-08-2013, 05:38 AM
  #27
PredsV82
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All of you people itching to replace Trotz need to realize that this team was built to play Trotz style hockey. There isn't a coach in the world that is going to come in and transform our current roster into an offensive powerhouse. So if Trotz goes, the only logical replacement will be another "defense first" type coach.

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10-08-2013, 05:59 AM
  #28
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If we replaced him now, we're looking at a complete rebuild of 3 to 4 years. IMHO.

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10-08-2013, 06:41 AM
  #29
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
If we replaced him now, we're looking at a complete rebuild of 3 to 4 years. IMHO.
We are looking at that any ways why not get a coach that does not kill young player's skill and doghouse them while vets are allows infinite mulligans

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10-08-2013, 07:06 AM
  #30
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Let's just say I disagree.

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10-08-2013, 08:46 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
All of you people itching to replace Trotz need to realize that this team was built to play Trotz style hockey. There isn't a coach in the world that is going to come in and transform our current roster into an offensive powerhouse. So if Trotz goes, the only logical replacement will be another "defense first" type coach.
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If we replaced him now, we're looking at a complete rebuild of 3 to 4 years. IMHO.
Completely agree with both.

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10-08-2013, 10:47 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
I guess we better hope they grow a pair then.
After going to all that trouble to get the kvetch thread up and running again, one has to wonder why you're using this one instead.

* * *

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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
We are looking at that any ways why not get a coach that does not kill young player's skill and doghouse them while vets are allows infinite mulligans
I promise you there'll be such a coach on the market as soon as you fire Trotz.

Seriously, his reputation for young-player-murder is really badly overstated. Particularly when games aren't going well and certain Lord And Savior forwards are somehow not being instant superstars (imagine that).

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10-08-2013, 01:52 PM
  #33
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Laviolette is an intriguing option, but I'll stand by Trotz.

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10-08-2013, 03:43 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Seriously, his reputation for young-player-murder is really badly overstated. Particularly when games aren't going well and certain Lord And Savior forwards are somehow not being instant superstars (imagine that).
Look at the post Trotz careers of Santorelli. Hartnell, Peverley. All these young kids were never given a chance under "two way" Trotz. He will never let a talented offensive player develop. gotta make them solid "two-way" players which means defense 1st and bench/scratch them if the take chances and try to score. Wilson would be further along if he played somewhere else, and he know it. This is why no one signs here and why young forwards just count down their days to UFA.

Wonder what Trotz's odds are

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...ed-this-season


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10-08-2013, 04:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Look at the post Trotz careers of Santorelli. Hartnell, Peverley. All these young kids were never given a chance under "two way" Trotz. He will never let a talented offensive player develop. gotta make them solid "two-way" players which means defense 1st and bench/scratch them if the take chances and try to score. Wilson would be further along if he played somewhere else, and he know it. This is why no one signs here and why young forwards just count down their days to UFA.
If this is the extent of Trotz's damaging development, we should count ourselves lucky.

Hartnell played at a .59 and .61 PPG pace his last two seasons here. His PPG as a Philadelphia Flyer has inflated to a whopping .62, which is a whole 1-3 points more, over an 82 game season. Trotz didn't stifle his development, and probably did much to mold Hartnell into the player he became. It also doesn't hurt Hartnell's numbers that Philadelphia has played a rather more offensive system than the Preds, and that he has also played alongside players like Richards, Carter, Giroux, and Briere, among others.

Santorelli had one good season for Florida. He was subpar after that, was unimpressive in Winnipeg, and is now in Vancouver. We'll see what he does this season.

Peverley had a great season...playing with Ilya Kovalchuk. He also had a solid season on a Cup winning team. He is a good offensive player, but just can't seem to stick with a franchise, for whatever reason. Maybe a Trotz failure, or maybe Peverley just finally figured it out.

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10-08-2013, 04:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Look at the post Trotz careers of Santorelli. Hartnell, Peverley. All these young kids were never given a chance under "two way" Trotz. He will never let a talented offensive player develop. gotta make them solid "two-way" players which means defense 1st and bench/scratch them if the take chances and try to score. Wilson would be further along if he played somewhere else, and he know it. This is why no one signs here and why young forwards just count down their days to UFA.

Wonder what Trotz's odds are

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...ed-this-season
Hartnell averaged 20+ in his last three years as a Pred while surpassing 64 games played only once in those years. Adam Hall averaged over 14 goals per season as a Pred.

Santorelli had one good year in Florida after leaving the Preds. Pevs has two good seasons after leaving then settled down considerably.

Who is next in your parade of Trotz kills offense hyperbole?

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10-08-2013, 04:45 PM
  #37
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Wasn't Peverley given a chance with Paul Kariya? Yeah, that isn't a good opportunity

For as much as we hear about how Trotz doesn't give players their chance, more often than not players are called up because of their particular skillset meshing with the need at the time. We don't often bring up skilled players to fill in for grinder roles. Players bust all of the time. It isn't always the coach's fault, and I would venture to guess it rarely is.

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10-08-2013, 04:46 PM
  #38
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Santorelli had 2 goals last night though




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Old
10-08-2013, 04:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Hartnell averaged 20+ in his last three years as a Pred while surpassing 64 games played only once in those years. Adam Hall averaged over 14 goals per season as a Pred.

Santorelli had one good year in Florida after leaving the Preds. Pevs has two good seasons after leaving then settled down considerably.

Who is next in your parade of Trotz kills offense hyperbole?
Hartnell's 37 goal season would have shattered the team record. Do you really think he would have gotten anywhere near that number playing for Trotz.

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10-08-2013, 05:03 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Hartnell's 37 goal season would have shattered the team record. Do you really think he would have gotten anywhere near that number playing for Trotz.
It's impossible to project what happens if the firesale never happens and Hartnell remains a Pred.

Then again, it took an additional five years of development to reach that 37 goal season. He also had a 14 goal, 81 games played season in Philly ... his lowest since year three. How are you going to blame Trotz for what happened under Stevens and Laviolette? Hartnell had fewer goals last season than Bourque .... how is that possible when Trotz destroys any offense from a young player?

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10-08-2013, 07:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Hartnell's 37 goal season would have shattered the team record. Do you really think he would have gotten anywhere near that number playing for Trotz.
Wasn't the original claim that kids, a handful of them in particular, are not or have not been given a chance? Attempting to make predictions about how a player who hasn't played here in 5 years would be doing now is not even close to relevant. Peverly was given time with the top two lines, even centering a line with Kariya, who was still very productive, for part of the 2006-2007 season. I guess we can always say, "Well, that was only 13 games", but the point is he was given a chance.

The next season his quality of teammates stat is just below that of Alexander Radulov, a player most would consider to be offensively skilled, if not mentally mature. Again we see Pevs getting his shot, but not much coming in the way of production. Hell, Antti Pihlstrom, a kid who wasn't even good enough to be claimed on the waiver wire, was given a pretty good chance to show he has the offensive skill to stick around at this level. He had a higher quality of teammates than everyone except Dumont, Arnott and Bochenski (who played only 8 games compared to Pihlstrom's 53).

So far I'm not seeing much in the way of Trotz making these guys muck it up with the grinders, and, rather, I'm seeing Trotz giving them ice time with the best players our team had to offer.

The guys who were at the lower end of quality of teammates that year? Guys you would expect to be. Bonk, Tootoo, Nichol, Fiddler, etc. Trotz really only moved those guys into higher roles when the kids, who were drafted for their offensive flare, failed to live up to expectations, which happens more often than not when you're talking about guys drafted at the picks we had.

What about Santorelli? Well, again, we see him near the top of the list in terms of quality of teammates. Antti Pihlstrom dropped dramatically down that list, as he showed he simply could not bury the puck. Hornqvist began working his way up the list. Cal O'Reilly as well. And again we see names like Tootoo, Nichol, Fiddler, Ortmeyer, Smithson and Bonk at the bottom of the list. Even Ryan Jones, a guy who was rated as a 7.0B prospect with goal-scoring capability, was given his chance. That didn't work out, either.

Moving along to quality of competition, you see names like Pihlstrom, Santorelli, Arnott, Dumont, Jones, hell even Legwand at the bottom of the pile in 2008-2009. All of those guys were given the majority of their shift starts in the offensive zone as well. 2007-2008? While the quality of competition is more evenly distributed, you still see guys like Peverly, Radulov and Pihlstrom given a good amount of offensive zone starts.

And then there's the eye test. We didn't have the most skilled offensive groups after the 2007 fire sale. The line of Arnott, Dumont and Radulov did pretty well for about half of a season in 2007-2008, but that's essentially all we had. Still, Trotz gave ample opportunity to the guys who were expected to be our offensively gifted prospects and they simply couldn't make it work.

So is it really Trotz demanding these kids earn their TOI by developing a two-way game, or was the need to develop a two-way game more the result of the roster we had after having a pretty damn good roster blown up in 2007? And were the decisions made to release a couple of guys made because they simply were not the right fit to help fix a struggling offense?

Blaming Trotz for things is fine, hell I know I do it my fair share, but instead of asking if X player would put up Y points on our team after they did it on a completely different team isn't much of an argument.

I guess we can bemoan Poile and his lack of ability to construct rosters that allowed certain prospects to shine, but are we then going to ignore other circumstances like the question marks surrounding the viability of the franchise in Nashville for a few years after the messy sale? Or the existence of 29 other markets with their own things to offer? Or the desires of the players who signed elsewhere, things that may not be able to be changes with a slick sales pitch? What about the 2010-2011 team that was top ten in every basic stat? Not a bad turn around from having to sell off good players for nothing, and not being able to re-sign other good players, just a few years before. Does no blame go to the coaching staff in Milwaukee? Are we going to just ignore how the majority of prospects absolutely flame out, a lot of times before even playing a game in the NHL?

It really cannot be all Trotz's fault, and, honestly, this idea that he destroys offensive ability is silly to me.


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10-08-2013, 07:44 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Hartnell's 37 goal season would have shattered the team record. Do you really think he would have gotten anywhere near that number playing for Trotz.
Depends on the roster Trotz has to work with, really.

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10-08-2013, 10:54 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post

I guess we can bemoan Poile and his lack of ability to construct rosters that allowed certain prospects to shine, but are we then going to ignore other circumstances like the question marks surrounding the viability of the franchise in Nashville for a few years after the messy sale? Or the existence of 29 other markets with their own things to offer? Or the desires of the players who signed elsewhere, things that may not be able to be changes with a slick sales pitch? What about the 2010-2011 team that was top ten in every basic stat? Not a bad turn around from having to sell off good players for nothing, and not being able to re-sign other good players, just a few years before. Does no blame go to the coaching staff in Milwaukee? Are we going to just ignore how the majority of prospects absolutely flame out, a lot of times before even playing a game in the NHL?

It really cannot be all Trotz's fault, and, honestly, this idea that he destroys offensive ability is silly to me.
No, no blame. When the Preds have 4 or 5 guys hurt, they always rely on the call ups to fill in the holes. I remember last season when Milwaukee had to call up 3 D-men from Cincinnati to replace Josi, Bartley and Ellis. Hannan and Gill were the only D-men on the Preds last season that didn't spend time in Milwaukee before they got to Nashville. Yes, you do get the Teemu Laakso / Jon Blum players too. Not every player will pan out in the NHL.

Milwaukee still qualified for the playoffs with 3 ECHL D-men on their roster. The Preds scored 109 goals last season, 2.27 goals a game. Even Scotty Bowman couldn't do much with that weak offense. Nashville needs to play more offense to score more goals. BTW, Josi had 5 of those 109 goals (4.6%), outscoring half the team.


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Old
10-08-2013, 11:10 PM
  #44
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I'm not saying the staff in Milwaukee deserves blame, but I never really see any of the same kind of attitude towards them as I do Trotz, who gets an undue amount. It seems like if anything it should be spread around a bit.

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10-09-2013, 12:49 AM
  #45
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Depends on the roster Trotz has to work with, really.
Yea, if we had Girioux and a Jagr (2 years younger), that's when you compare it. Outside of that year, Hartnell had very similar production and his last years with Nashville. Last year, he had a lousy 11 points in 32 games when he wasn't surrounded by as much talent.

Changing coaches isn't going to improve our chances this year. It's a roster problem (at forward). If anything, Trotz will get more out of this roster than the vast majority NHL coaches.

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10-09-2013, 12:42 PM
  #46
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Changing coaches isn't going to improve our chances this year. It's a roster problem (at forward). If anything, Trotz will get more out of this roster than the vast majority NHL coaches.
I don't think anyone's ever questioned that. Just his ability to coach a team with a chance to be a contender once he does get so much out of his players. But I still stand by him.

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