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Recurring issues with this team

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Old
10-09-2013, 09:09 AM
  #26
Mikos87
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Hey, I agree with this in general - I just don't think the eye has seen a large enough sample size until about mid-November.
Hey I wanna see some roster changes in mid October, why teeter with mediocrity before deciding to act?

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10-09-2013, 09:13 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
I had a wait and see approach until the Vancouver game this preseason before things starting becoming obvious. Considering its game 3 of the regular season, after 6 in the preseason, and the team is 2-7... has been badly outscored several times, and just quit on a game where it's top forward took a headshot without a response....

Well all I'll say is my sense of pragmatism outweighs my sense of optimism. I don't think unconditional loyalty should get in the way of what the eye sees.
I like how you're including meaningless preseason games in that record. It's really a pathetic excuse for your agenda.

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10-09-2013, 09:33 AM
  #28
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I like how you're including meaningless preseason games in that record. It's really a pathetic excuse for your agenda.
It's still fact. Can someone pull up the GF-GA in all the games thus far to provide some further evidence of ineptitude?

Other teams iced split squads too in the preseason. In my mind this team won't win until some roster moves are made to fit need and system.

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10-09-2013, 09:36 AM
  #29
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The Rangers are a work in progress. San Jose is a really good team. The game got away from us. It happens.

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10-09-2013, 09:52 AM
  #30
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Well instead of getting ticked off at these recurring issues, how do you guys think the org should fix them?

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10-09-2013, 09:57 AM
  #31
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It's entirely too early to make any realistic assesment of this team.

I'll reserve my judgment until mid noverment or early december, after this gong show of an opening strech is safely behind us.

The NHL season is a long grind. The best thing the orgnization can do at this point in the process is be patient, and get a real understanding of where this team is before making any adjustments.

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10-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by nils2317 View Post
Maybe the fact that we give up so many deflected goals has to do something with the keeper's inability to stop them. Nah, that can't be it.
I agree with this. I've never seen so many weak wristers get through to the goalie than what the Rangers give up.

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10-09-2013, 10:12 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Well instead of getting ticked off at these recurring issues, how do you guys think the org should fix them?
Sather relinquishes power to a GM that commits to an actual long-term plan.

In other words, a defined style of play, no coaching carousel, and - most importantly, a roster built to execute that plan.

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Old
10-09-2013, 10:22 AM
  #34
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Sather needs to give up the final say to Jeff Gorton. Go spend the winters in California with Ann. The Rangers have so many decisions to make in the next 9 months. They made the change at coach who will look to keep the players he wants and weed out the other players. That's not an overnight process. The Rangers have 7 players signed for next season. Nash. Richards. Stepan. Hagelin. Dorsett. McD. Staal. Look at the big picture. Not one game in October.

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10-09-2013, 10:25 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
The recurring issue is the man in charge of this **** show, and that'd be none other than the man himself I and drew like to call the Teflon GM. Hopefully Henrik leaves so I can see him hoist the Cup because it ain't happening here. Then when this team is a lottery team Dolan will wake up and can his ass
You rang?? Needless to say, you are preaching to the choir.

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10-09-2013, 10:25 AM
  #36
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..and another thing...Please take Del Zotto off of the PP.
So frustrating to see him shoot the puck right into the defenseman or miss the net every ****ing time !!

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10-09-2013, 10:28 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Well instead of getting ticked off at these recurring issues, how do you guys think the org should fix them?
Stop messing with the team, let them finish in their natural spot without UFA and rentals augmenting their draft position. Have a staff who identifies and takes the best overall player available. Rinse and repeat until they have a team that needs to be augmented in only one or two spots.

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10-09-2013, 10:38 AM
  #38
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Agree with some of other posts above - it is well past time for Sather to relinquish control of the club and hand over the reigns to Gorton. With so few players signed beyond this year and the Richards buyout looming, I'm sure Sather is licking his chops to "retool" the roster yet again in the offseason. Let Gorton handle those big decisions and hopefully he can build a team that has enough talent and mental fortitude to win a cup someday.

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10-09-2013, 10:41 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Sather relinquishes power to a GM that commits to an actual long-term plan.

In other words, a defined style of play, no coaching carousel, and - most importantly, a roster built to execute that plan.
Yep, it's been the one constant for 13 years now.

Stop trying to patchwork a roster every year.

Stop thinking the team is one player away.

Stop making moves in a vacuum.

Stop making boom or bust picks. This team has spent a ridiculous amount of money on stop-gap third and fourth liners which is insane in a salary cap world. These spots need to be filled by younger, internal options on cheaper and controllable contracts. Take players who's ceilings might be lower but can fill those positions.

Stop perpetrating the myth that this team is in win-now mode.

Start looking beyond the current season and formulate a long-term plan.

Start recognizing that an organization takes it's cue from it's highest ranking front office member. In the Rangers' case, that's an old, out of touch, game has passed him by guy who hasn't had any real success in over two decades and has spent a ****-ton of money on players who haven't done much of anything here.

Start creating an organizational philosophy, draft to it and carry it through to Hartford.

Start by taking a step back (this might require fresh eyes) and really look at what this team is, where they stack up against the rest of the and take potentially painful look at what this team's true upside is (i.e., can they really beat a Boston or Pittsburgh, let alone an LA, San Jose, Chicago, St. Louis or Vancouver)

What's amazing is we've been saying these things more or less since 1997 after that magical run to the ECF and Messier's subsequent defection to Vancouver.

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Old
10-09-2013, 10:49 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Sather relinquishes power to a GM that commits to an actual long-term plan.

In other words, a defined style of play, no coaching carousel, and - most importantly, a roster built to execute that plan.
That would be a refreshing and welcome change which probably won't happen.

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10-09-2013, 11:20 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
What exactly is the magic number that allows a team to play an offensive-ish system versus a 'collapse the net at all costs' defensive system? Renney didn't have the horses. Torts didn't have the horses. Now AV doesn't have the horses? If the benchmark for an offensive system is being able to ice the lineup that the Pens, Blackhawks or Sharks have.. then there's something wrong there.

The fact that we have the same issues year after year has as much to do with the people running the show as it does the players.
Good post.

You don't need to be a particularly talented team to solve a lot of the problems that have plagued this team. When a team consistently has issues with simple things like knowing where support players are or making a pass to a wide open teammate, it goes beyond the roster.

There are middling college teams that have had a more consistent and coherent transition game than the Rangers.

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Old
10-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
Bad GMing. Bad coaching. Bad minor league coaching. Bad scouting. Bad drafting. Bad development. No speed. No grit. Lack of skill. Lack of on-ice leadership. Lack of hockey IQ. Mentally soft. The vaunted defense corps is a paper tiger when not playing in an ultra-defensive system. There are maybe five players on this roster worth keeping after this season.
Well stated and very truthful. Btw, here are my keepers:

Lundqvist(provided he doesn't ask
for > 8.5 mil)
McDonagh
Stepan
Hagelin
Staal
Cally(provided he doesn't ask for >
5 mil)

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Old
10-09-2013, 11:32 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Now the issue for me--is when your team is getting pasted on the scoreboard--sorry to say it folks but once it hits 4-1, 5-1 and you're missing your best forward clean hit or not it's time to start running people, ****ing with their goalie etc. etc. and looking up and down the Sharks roster last night--they are not a tough team at all--problem is neither are we but they don't even have a Dorsett or Asham. The Rangers had no legs and no grit last night. No one played well.
This sums it up for me. I missed the game but watched the highlights and was expecting it to get chippy. Maybe those days are behind us but you gotta show some pride in a game like that, especially after that circus goal that kid scored. Someone should have run him through the boards.

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Old
10-09-2013, 11:41 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yep, it's been the one constant for 13 years now.

Stop trying to patchwork a roster every year.

Stop thinking the team is one player away.

Stop making moves in a vacuum.

Stop making boom or bust picks. This team has spent a ridiculous amount of money on stop-gap third and fourth liners which is insane in a salary cap world. These spots need to be filled by younger, internal options on cheaper and controllable contracts. Take players who's ceilings might be lower but can fill those positions.

Stop perpetrating the myth that this team is in win-now mode.

Start looking beyond the current season and formulate a long-term plan.

Start recognizing that an organization takes it's cue from it's highest ranking front office member. In the Rangers' case, that's an old, out of touch, game has passed him by guy who hasn't had any real success in over two decades and has spent a ****-ton of money on players who haven't done much of anything here.

Start creating an organizational philosophy, draft to it and carry it through to Hartford.

Start by taking a step back (this might require fresh eyes) and really look at what this team is, where they stack up against the rest of the and take potentially painful look at what this team's true upside is (i.e., can they really beat a Boston or Pittsburgh, let alone an LA, San Jose, Chicago, St. Louis or Vancouver)

What's amazing is we've been saying these things more or less since 1997 after that magical run to the ECF and Messier's subsequent defection to Vancouver.
This realistically cuts to the core of it. Unfortunately, if you're going to be brutally honest, it would be rebuild time and since Glennie boy isn't stepping down anytime soon, starting that process now would be for naught. Truthfully, and not based off of just three games, NOR based off the fact that we had one deep playoff run, two years ago, does anyone really think this team is better than a 6th seed that has the guns to get by Detroit, Pittsburgh, Boston or any of a handful of western teams? I'm not saying we're a bad team, but we're a team that's on the high end of mediocre without any serious impact prospects in the system. As currently constructed the roster doesn't have the upside to fly among the top of the league but will never be bad enough to draft inside the top 10. The current "plan" can only keep us in a perpetual cycle of mediocrity.

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Old
10-09-2013, 11:46 AM
  #45
stan the caddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
What exactly is the magic number that allows a team to play an offensive-ish system versus a 'collapse the net at all costs' defensive system? Renney didn't have the horses. Torts didn't have the horses. Now AV doesn't have the horses? If the benchmark for an offensive system is being able to ice the lineup that the Pens, Blackhawks or Sharks have.. then there's something wrong there.

The fact that we have the same issues year after year has as much to do with the people running the show as it does the players.
But look at the players. Pouliot has been thrown away by four teams and the fans think he's going to be our big second line scorer. Brassard has been painfully mediocre in Columbus but now that he's in NY he's going to reach potential. People constantly brag about MZA's offensive ability but at the end of the day he really doesn't put up that many points.

Rick Nash is the best offensive player on the team and he probably isn't a top 30 offensive player in the league.

Essentially every coach plays a defensive system. The players either score or they don't.

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Old
10-09-2013, 11:50 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by PK Pilot 76 View Post
This realistically cuts to the core of it. Unfortunately, if you're going to be brutally honest, it would be rebuild time and since Glennie boy isn't stepping down anytime soon, starting that process now would be for naught.
Certainly is a double-edged sword. There's no reason that Slats should be allowed to oversee another rebuld.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK Pilot 76 View Post
Truthfully, and not based off of just three games, NOR based off the fact that we had one deep playoff run, two years ago, does anyone really think this team is better than a 6th seed that has the guns to get by Detroit, Pittsburgh, Boston or any of a handful of western teams? I'm not saying we're a bad team, but we're a team that's on the high end of mediocre without any serious impact prospects in the system. As currently constructed the roster doesn't have the upside to fly among the top of the league but will never be bad enough to draft inside the top 10.
That's my point.

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The current "plan" can only keep us in a perpetual cycle of mediocrity.
And it's been this way, again, since 1997.

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Old
10-09-2013, 11:55 AM
  #47
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What's the plan? The Rangers have talked contract with Lundqvist and Callahan. Girardi was OK last year. He has been OK so far. Its very early. Just 3 games. Maybe Girardi has played the best hockey of his career already. He will be 30 at the end of his current contract. The Rangers got the best of Girardi at a very good price. Let some other team make the mistake of giving him 4-5 years. Why don't they look to move him if he isn't in the plans instead of just letting him leave as a free agent? Its OK to want a light underneath a player to make him perform for his next contract like the Sharks are doing with Marleau and Thornton. Is that the Rangers plan? Nobody really knows.

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Old
10-09-2013, 12:01 PM
  #48
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since a rebuild is being discussed, dear lord please no more rebuilds under Sather. I just, when does it stop? When does Sather FINALLY step down? And just for fun, here are the players I'd keep in a rebuild if we're doing one.

-McDonagh
-Stepan
-Hagelin
-Staal
-Dorsett
-Lundqvist (if he's willing to go through that.)
-Zucca

I wonder if it ever gets to this point.

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Old
10-09-2013, 12:03 PM
  #49
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since a rebuild is being discussed, dear lord please no more rebuilds under Sather. I just, when does it stop? When does Sather FINALLY step down? And just for fun, here are the players I'd keep in a rebuild if we're doing one.

-McDonagh
-Stepan
-Hagelin
-Staal
-Dorsett
-Lundqvist (if he's willing to go through that.)
-Zucca

I wonder if it ever gets to this point.
You're not really offering anything up if that's your keep list.

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Old
10-09-2013, 12:07 PM
  #50
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They still look like a team unfamiliar with their new system.

When some players are playing positionally the way it's been ingrained for the last 3 years and other players play positionally the way they're being asked to right now, you end up being a turnover factory as a group. Once everyone is on the same page, we won't see this happen. They aren't yet.

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