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Is Bryan McCabe a #1 D-man

View Poll Results: Is Bryan McCabe a legit #1 D-man
The guy's awesome! 8 11.76%
A #1 but not Norris worthy 25 36.76%
More of a #2 25 36.76%
The thread starter is on crack 10 14.71%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-14-2004, 06:47 PM
  #26
Porn*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
How about a quick reference list.

Anaheim: #1
Atlanta: #1
Boston: #1
Calgary: #1
Carolina: #1
Chicago: #1
Colorado: #2/3
Columbus: #1
Dallas: #1-3?
Detroit: #4
Edmonton: #1
Florida: #1
Los Angeles: #1-2
Minnesota: #1
Montreal: #2
Nashville: #1
New Jersey: #3
New York Islanders: #3
New York Rangers: #1-2
Ottawa: #1-4 (My Homering is Probably in Effect Here)
Piladelphia: #1-3
Pittsburgh: #1
San Jose: #1
St. Louis: #3
Tampa Bay: #1
Toronto: #1
Vancouver: #2-3
Washington: #2

Not bad at all.
In Ottawa... probably 2-3

Redden- McCabe/Chara
Phillips-Chara/McCabe
yada yada yada

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Old
01-14-2004, 07:29 PM
  #27
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Don't forget that McCabe has been move back and forth from right d to left d throughout his entire career, and that it is nearly impossible to do so successfully. You either play the left side or the right.

What little things does Rob Blake do well. He is a big risk big reward type defenseman. He is what a + 5 or 6 on one of the best offensive teams in the league. Really on that team he has to be among the league leaders in point by a d, but shouldn't he be better +/-.

One Question about Gonchar, does anyone actually think that he is a good defender, or is he just a above average 4th forward on a shift.

Sergei Gonchar is not a #1 defenseman. He is a point producer a la Tom Kurvers, or Sandis Ozolinsh.

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Old
01-15-2004, 10:46 AM
  #28
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+/- isd an overated stat.

Also from what I've seen of Blake its more that he does everything just a bit better than someone like McCabe which makes him elite.

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Old
01-15-2004, 10:49 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn*
In Ottawa... probably 2-3

Redden- McCabe/Chara
Phillips-Chara/McCabe
yada yada yada
I dunno, I was thinking more of a 1-2 guy just because Redden isn't as much of a physical or offensive presence and doesn't seem to excell defensively compared to McCabe.

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01-16-2004, 08:52 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaak
One Question about Gonchar, does anyone actually think that he is a good defender, or is he just a above average 4th forward on a shift.

Sergei Gonchar is not a #1 defenseman. He is a point producer a la Tom Kurvers, or Sandis Ozolinsh.

I disagree, Gonchar is very much a legitimate #1 D-Man IMHO, and not even remotely comparable to Ozolinsh.
While he's far from stalwart, he can hold his own defensively and might even be a notch above average defensively... which is more then I can say for 95% of the League's star offensive D-Man.

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Old
01-16-2004, 12:48 PM
  #31
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I agree with Rand, just watch him play.

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Old
01-16-2004, 03:43 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
I dunno, I was thinking more of a 1-2 guy just because Redden isn't as much of a physical or offensive presence and doesn't seem to excell defensively compared to McCabe.
I am not trolling or anything, just like hearing the opinions of the home town fans. You are partially right in your description of McCabe of Redden, but also partially wrong. Reddens consistancy sets himself apart from most other defensemen, and his defensive zone coverage far exceeds McCabes. He is not as physical, and their points are rather comparable, but as what was being talked about Blake, its the little things that sets him apart.
Oh yeh, and I think hes a fantastic player and all, just wouldnt rank above Reds or chara.
Just my 2 cents.

congrats on the recent success

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Old
01-16-2004, 05:53 PM
  #33
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Chara and McCabe are really hard to compare unfortunately. They play very different games and excell in different areas. I still say that McCabe makes Redden fold offensively. In eight less games he has six more points, on a lower goal scoring streak.

And we haven't done well recently, after the streak ended, injuries and our defence caught up with us, it takes a while for cripples and bad atheletes to run at the same pace as a hockey team.

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Old
01-16-2004, 07:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
How about a quick reference list.


Montreal: #2
I'd say he'd still be the #1 in Montreal. Who knows if Sheldon Souray is for real?

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Old
01-16-2004, 08:44 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
So McCabe is the #1 defenceman on the league's top team... but on most other teams he's a 2-3-4 guy?

How does that make sense?

McCabe is a #1 defenceman, but not yet elite. He could challenge for a spot on team Canada in the World Championships I think.

Could MAYBE get serious Norris consideration in 2-4 years, but he'll have to keep improving.
I'll bite.

Even if you consider Al MacInnis out for Team Canada because of his eye injury, I gotta ask - how on earth does Bryan McCabe challenge for a spot?

In no particular order....

1) Rob Blake
2) Adam Foote
3) Scott Niedermayer
4) Chris Pronger
5) Ed Jovanovski
6) Scott Stevens

I don't think anybody could dispute those. You can cite Scott Stevens age if you like, but he was still rock-solid in the Stanley Cup last year and is the best defensive player on the league's best defensive team. As I said, you can argue the point, but it's really rather moot.

So with those six firmly entrenched ahead of Bryan McCabe, let's look at some other Canadians.

For starters, I think Wade Redden is vastly superior defensively, and has a good offensive side to his game and would get a look long before McCabe. Sheldon Souray in Montreal is a physically intimidating defenseman would plays tough and solid, logs huge minutes and scores more goals and points then McCabe. He would clearly get a look ahead of McCabe. In Edmonton, Eric Brewer was an Olympian. Though he's struggling this season, I think his past experience and poise would give him a sniff before the organizers would look at Bryan McCabe.

Now he's having a tough time in the top ten, let alone 'challenging'

Look at him tonight, finished a -3 in a game where the goals were all scored by Flyers going to the net unchallenged. His defensive brain cramps and tendancies to take himself out of the play make him a very solid number 3, not a #1. He has zero chance of making team Canada unless there are a lot of injuries.

I'd look at unhearalded but steady guys like Steve Staios, Chris Phillips, Brendan Witt and Darryl Sydor before I'd gamble on McCabe if only for the maddening inconsistences in his game.

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Old
01-16-2004, 08:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
I dunno, I was thinking more of a 1-2 guy just because Redden isn't as much of a physical or offensive presence and doesn't seem to excell defensively compared to McCabe.
Did you even look at the stats?

McCabe has 4 more points then Wade Redden.

Is four points the difference between being an offensive presence and not?

And to say Redden doesn't 'excell defensively' compared to Redden is crazy.

Redden is clearly better defensively and dramatically more consistent.

If Ottawa offered Redden for McCabe, John Ferguson would probably wet his pants with excitement.

The fact that you think McCabe is better then Redden defensively explains why you would start a thread suggesting he's a #1. If he were better then Redden in his own zone, he would in fact be a #1.

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Old
01-17-2004, 02:39 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
I'll bite.

Even if you consider Al MacInnis out for Team Canada because of his eye injury, I gotta ask - how on earth does Bryan McCabe challenge for a spot?

In no particular order....

1) Rob Blake
2) Adam Foote
3) Scott Niedermayer
4) Chris Pronger
5) Ed Jovanovski
6) Scott Stevens

I don't think anybody could dispute those. You can cite Scott Stevens age if you like, but he was still rock-solid in the Stanley Cup last year and is the best defensive player on the league's best defensive team. As I said, you can argue the point, but it's really rather moot.

So with those six firmly entrenched ahead of Bryan McCabe, let's look at some other Canadians.

For starters, I think Wade Redden is vastly superior defensively, and has a good offensive side to his game and would get a look long before McCabe. Sheldon Souray in Montreal is a physically intimidating defenseman would plays tough and solid, logs huge minutes and scores more goals and points then McCabe. He would clearly get a look ahead of McCabe. In Edmonton, Eric Brewer was an Olympian. Though he's struggling this season, I think his past experience and poise would give him a sniff before the organizers would look at Bryan McCabe.

Now he's having a tough time in the top ten, let alone 'challenging'

Look at him tonight, finished a -3 in a game where the goals were all scored by Flyers going to the net unchallenged. His defensive brain cramps and tendancies to take himself out of the play make him a very solid number 3, not a #1. He has zero chance of making team Canada unless there are a lot of injuries.

I'd look at unhearalded but steady guys like Steve Staios, Chris Phillips, Brendan Witt and Darryl Sydor before I'd gamble on McCabe if only for the maddening inconsistences in his game.
First of all, I only said McCabe could challenge for a spot. Afterall, he was strongly considered for the Olympic Team.

You've only listed 6 d-man when team Canada will likely have 7 or 8. Plus I don't think Stevens is firmly entrenched as he wasn't even on the Olympic team 2 years ago.

So out of the players you mentioned like Souray, Brewer, Staios, Witt, Redden and Sydor. Sure these guys could get consideration, but McCabe will definately be in the mix as well.

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Old
01-17-2004, 04:23 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
First of all, I only said McCabe could challenge for a spot. Afterall, he was strongly considered for the Olympic Team.

You've only listed 6 d-man when team Canada will likely have 7 or 8. Plus I don't think Stevens is firmly entrenched as he wasn't even on the Olympic team 2 years ago.

So out of the players you mentioned like Souray, Brewer, Staios, Witt, Redden and Sydor. Sure these guys could get consideration, but McCabe will definately be in the mix as well.
I agree with this. No one is suggesting that McCabe is a lock, well at least Im not suggesting, or that he's one of the top guys out there.

But he should get some decent consideration.

Pronger, Blake, Foote, Neidermayer, Jovo. Those are the top Canadian defensemen in the game right now and no one is disputing that. Stevens excels at the physical, defensive, chippy style of game that is played in the NHL right now but as evidenced by his non-invite to the Olympic team 2 years ago that doesnt necessarily translate into success outside the NHL. So IMHO you've essentially got 5 guys who should be locks for the team, and then the rest of the pack competing for the remaining 2 spots (possibly 3). If one of those top guys happens to be injured (heaven forbid) then suddenly you're looking at possible 4 spots being up for competition.

If you consider McCabe to be in that next tier of defensemen along with guys like Brewer and Redden, which I do, then there should be no reason why he shouldn't at least get some consideration for one of the remaining spots. You can pick apart the game of any of these guys and none of them is perfect, that's why they aren't given the same consideration as a Blake or Foote. No one is guaranteeing that McCabe will make it or even that he definitely should make it, just that he should be among the top candidates to fill one of those remaining open spots.

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