HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Bozak vs. Couturier

View Poll Results: ?
Bozak 54 44.26%
Couturier 68 55.74%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-09-2013, 09:02 AM
  #51
kingdok
HFBoards Sponsor
 
kingdok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,245
vCash: 500
Voted Bozak, cause the whole Flyers team is pretty bad right now.

kingdok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 10:27 AM
  #52
tony d
Giant Doctor
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,683
vCash: 500
Close but Bozak.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 11:40 AM
  #53
Penalty Kill Icing*
Fire Carlyle
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,972
vCash: 500
What line does Couturier play? Who are his line-mates?

If Couturier is on top-line and we are comparing, Bozak is the answer.
If Couturier isn't getting 1st line chances and 1st PP unit chances, then it is Couturier.

Penalty Kill Icing* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 11:42 AM
  #54
eklunds source
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ed Snider's basement
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
Seeing as only J.Toews, E.Staal and M.Koivu were the only players in the league within 50 FOWs of Tyler Bozak; I'd say you are wrong.
If someone who wins 1/3rd of all of their faceoffs takes 3x as many faceoffs as anyone else... they'll end up with hundreds if not thousands of faceoff wins more, even though winning just 1 in 3 is pretty ******. Bozak is notably above league average, but not a special faceoff talent.

Quote:
You can't extrapolate a FO% from a sample size of 500 to over 1000 and expect the results to be definative.
I took Bozak's faceoff percentage from the last 3 seasons - that's his last 3,702 faceoffs. Is that enough of a sample size for you?


Quote:
I'm sorry but you couldn't be any further from the truth. He plays with A ppg winger and another 50pt player. JVR is not and has not been anywhere close to a PPG player yet in his career. Over their careers, they have near identical GP and PTS produced in that time span. JVRs offensive production has been on the level of Bozak; not Kessel. You cannot claim JVR and Kessel are at the PPG level while lowly ol'Bozie is a mutt dragging them down.
Yes I can. Read on.



Quote:
But JVR didn't get to play with Kessel in Philly!.....RC's most commonly iced forward line last year was JVR-Bozak-Kessel (by a wide margin). What was the result of these 3 playing together all year?

Bozak: 46GP 28pts (82GP, 50pts)
JVR: 48GP 32pts (82GP, 55pts)
Kessel: 48GP 52pts (82GP, 89pts)

TWO of these things are not like the other. Not just one.
I'm glad you brought up that line, because the results are pretty much nothing like what you're saying they are.

First off, you're including powerplay production, which didn't come from that line. At 5v5, where 80% of hockey happens, here are those players' point totals:
Kessel: 31 points in 746 minutes (2.49pts/60)
JvR: 25 points in 708 minutes (2.12pts/60)
Bozak: 17 points in 677 minutes (1.51pts/60)
source

Who stands out now? In fact, here's the last 3 seasons:

Kessel, 119pts in 3242mins, 2.20pts/60
Bozak, 64pts in 2864mins, 1.34pts/60

Quote:
He's constantly involved in the play and is one of the RC's most trusted forwards. I know you probably have coached in the NHL too, but I'll take RC thanks.
Bozak is "constantly involved in the play"? Bozak is possibly less involved in the play than anyone on the Leafs. Have a look at this goal:



To open it off, Bozak is coasting down the middle of the ice, not covering anyone but generally close to where he needs to be. He ends up in front of his own net.

It looks like the Leafs might clear it so Bozak picks up some speed and heads to the boards to support the puck. The Sens maintain possession, and Bozak skates right by the guy, who makes a quick turn and feeds an open man. Impact on the play so far: 0

At 0:12 Bozak heads back to the front of the net, though now the defenseman is taking the man there and Bozak is still not covering anyone. He stands still for 5-6 seconds solid, just watching the play.

At 0:18, Kessel picks up the puck just below the faceoff dot. Bozak is hustling but Kessel knows better than to pass it to him, instead slowing up and waiting for Bozak to get a bit deeper and farther away.

At 0:24, Bozak tries to take a pass from Kessel, manages to touch the puck but doesn't really do anything, and gets rubbed out of the play.

Kessel takes advantage of the lack of back-checking Senators, finds JvR, and the two combine for a a pretty easy tap-in.


So, in summary, Bozak didn't really do anything - certainly not anything beyond the capabilities of a 3rd line plugger - and yet that's how he got his only assist of the season.

eklunds source is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 11:59 AM
  #55
jmart21
MISC!!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: All Over The Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
If someone who wins 1/3rd of all of their faceoffs takes 3x as many faceoffs as anyone else... they'll end up with hundreds if not thousands of faceoff wins more, even though winning just 1 in 3 is pretty ******. Bozak is notably above league average, but not a special faceoff talent.


I took Bozak's faceoff percentage from the last 3 seasons - that's his last 3,702 faceoffs. Is that enough of a sample size for you?



Yes I can. Read on.




I'm glad you brought up that line, because the results are pretty much nothing like what you're saying they are.

First off, you're including powerplay production, which didn't come from that line. At 5v5, where 80% of hockey happens, here are those players' point totals:
Kessel: 31 points in 746 minutes (2.49pts/60)
JvR: 25 points in 708 minutes (2.12pts/60)
Bozak: 17 points in 677 minutes (1.51pts/60)
source

Who stands out now? In fact, here's the last 3 seasons:

Kessel, 119pts in 3242mins, 2.20pts/60
Bozak, 64pts in 2864mins, 1.34pts/60


Bozak is "constantly involved in the play"? Bozak is possibly less involved in the play than anyone on the Leafs. Have a look at this goal:



To open it off, Bozak is coasting down the middle of the ice, not covering anyone but generally close to where he needs to be. He ends up in front of his own net.

It looks like the Leafs might clear it so Bozak picks up some speed and heads to the boards to support the puck. The Sens maintain possession, and Bozak skates right by the guy, who makes a quick turn and feeds an open man. Impact on the play so far: 0

At 0:12 Bozak heads back to the front of the net, though now the defenseman is taking the man there and Bozak is still not covering anyone. He stands still for 5-6 seconds solid, just watching the play.

At 0:18, Kessel picks up the puck just below the faceoff dot. Bozak is hustling but Kessel knows better than to pass it to him, instead slowing up and waiting for Bozak to get a bit deeper and farther away.

At 0:24, Bozak tries to take a pass from Kessel, manages to touch the puck but doesn't really do anything, and gets rubbed out of the play.

Kessel takes advantage of the lack of back-checking Senators, finds JvR, and the two combine for a a pretty easy tap-in.


So, in summary, Bozak didn't really do anything - certainly not anything beyond the capabilities of a 3rd line plugger - and yet that's how he got his only assist of the season.
You and I have had this argument before and I know where it goes.

- You use FO% as the be-all-end-all.
- You claim both Kessel and JVR are PPG when JVR is not. I pointed out Bozak and JVR have had nearly idenical points in the same number of games; you then debate that not all points are created equal. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter where they come from or how you pro-rate them - you claimed Bozak plays with 2 PPG wingers...which he does not.
- You post a youtube clip of a play and use it as gospel.

Not going to get into this again with you Ek. Let's agree to disagree.

jmart21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 01:11 PM
  #56
Daley Tarasenkshow
#firstroundexit
 
Daley Tarasenkshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Healy View Post
Bozak = Given 1st line duties playing with Kessel and JVR

Couturier = Given 4th line duties

If Couturier and Bozak when given equal duties, Courturier outperforms Bozak 10 out of 10
Nope. Don't see it.

Bozak.

Daley Tarasenkshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 01:45 PM
  #57
mantis toboggan
Registered User
 
mantis toboggan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
What line does Couturier play? Who are his line-mates?

If Couturier is on top-line and we are comparing, Bozak is the answer.
If Couturier isn't getting 1st line chances and 1st PP unit chances, then it is Couturier.
He plays on the 3rd line with read and talbot

mantis toboggan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 02:06 PM
  #58
Dwaynes Johnson
The Peoples Champ
 
Dwaynes Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Bozak is "constantly involved in the play"? Bozak is possibly less involved in the play than anyone on the Leafs. Have a look at this goal:



To open it off, Bozak is coasting down the middle of the ice, not covering anyone but generally close to where he needs to be. He ends up in front of his own net.

It looks like the Leafs might clear it so Bozak picks up some speed and heads to the boards to support the puck. The Sens maintain possession, and Bozak skates right by the guy, who makes a quick turn and feeds an open man. Impact on the play so far: 0

At 0:12 Bozak heads back to the front of the net, though now the defenseman is taking the man there and Bozak is still not covering anyone. He stands still for 5-6 seconds solid, just watching the play.

At 0:18, Kessel picks up the puck just below the faceoff dot. Bozak is hustling but Kessel knows better than to pass it to him, instead slowing up and waiting for Bozak to get a bit deeper and farther away.

At 0:24, Bozak tries to take a pass from Kessel, manages to touch the puck but doesn't really do anything, and gets rubbed out of the play.

Kessel takes advantage of the lack of back-checking Senators, finds JvR, and the two combine for a a pretty easy tap-in.


So, in summary, Bozak didn't really do anything - certainly not anything beyond the capabilities of a 3rd line plugger - and yet that's how he got his only assist of the season.
What a terrible analysis of how that play developed. I also love how apparently this clip is the all encompassing Bozak Youtube clip. He's in virtually perfect position the entire clip and then tips the puck past the defender to help set up the goal. If he doesn't take the hit to make the play, goal doesn't happen. What do you want him to do exactly there? Chase the puck carrier around the d-zone hoping to steal the puck and go coast to coast, Only to finish it off with a highlight reel goal on Anderson?

Dwaynes Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 04:56 PM
  #59
BiggestLeafsFanEVER*
GO LEAFS GO
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,351
vCash: 500
lololololol I misread the poll and thought it was Bozak vs Couture and was just like what the ****, who would want Bozo over him.

I voted for Couturier, thinking I was voting for Couture.

So I guess looking at what the poll actually is I'd go with Bozo just because I'm really unimpressed with Couturier and don't buy into his hype. But I'd say that 99% of polls involving Bozak, I'd go for the other guy

BiggestLeafsFanEVER* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 04:58 PM
  #60
eklunds source
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ed Snider's basement
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theLongR0D View Post
What a terrible analysis of how that play developed. I also love how apparently this clip is the all encompassing Bozak Youtube clip. He's in virtually perfect position the entire clip and then tips the puck past the defender to help set up the goal. If he doesn't take the hit to make the play, goal doesn't happen. What do you want him to do exactly there? Chase the puck carrier around the d-zone hoping to steal the puck and go coast to coast, Only to finish it off with a highlight reel goal on Anderson?
Just an example of how his play could be duplicated by an average 3rd liner.

eklunds source is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 07:37 PM
  #61
Quares27
Registered User
 
Quares27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Just an example of how his play could be duplicated by an average 3rd liner.
Nobody is referencing that clip as if it's something special by Bozak. You're the one who randomly brought it up. I'm sure I can find many clips where Pittsburgh scored a goal and Crosby did something that could have been duplicated by a 3rd liner. What does that prove exactly?

Quares27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2013, 07:51 PM
  #62
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Voted for Bozak.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2013, 12:57 PM
  #63
Dwaynes Johnson
The Peoples Champ
 
Dwaynes Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Just an example of how his play could be duplicated by an average 3rd liner.
swing and a miss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quares27 View Post
Nobody is referencing that clip as if it's something special by Bozak. You're the one who randomly brought it up. I'm sure I can find many clips where Pittsburgh scored a goal and Crosby did something that could have been duplicated by a 3rd liner. What does that prove exactly?


MVP??? Please; Bozak would have broken this play up

Dwaynes Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.