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Peter Laviolette, fired |Craig Berube new head coach (two-year contract, per Tim P.)

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Old
10-09-2013, 10:10 PM
  #726
Curufinwe
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I'm pretty sure getting traded was a wake up call for both of them. Especially Carter who got traded twice. He didn't even want to play wing here but in LA it's no problem.

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10-09-2013, 10:16 PM
  #727
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I'm pretty sure getting traded was a wake up call for both of them. Especially Carter who got traded twice.
For most of Richards career here he was a 60 to 80 point Selke-caliber center and for most of Carter's career he was a 35 to 40 goal two-way center. Their careers outside of Philly thus far are in-line with that for the most part.

The only difference is that there's no more media fiasco surrounding them. Even their playoff performances are roughly the same. So, to sum up, despite the former poster saying (I'm paraphrasing here a bit) that they would both decline due to burning the candle at both ends and being supposed lockerroom cancers in Philly they're still performing exactly as they were here.

Kind of convenient that literally the only complaint about those two revolved around the media and fans and couldn't be proven by any means really. Also convenient that when that problem doesn't exist outside of Philly it's because they "shaped up".

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10-09-2013, 10:17 PM
  #728
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I think the only "shaping up" was getting the hell away from the Philly Slob Corps of Journalistic Failures. I remember they even kept taking jabs at them after they were gone. Like...let it go you obsessed weirdos, isn't there enough to cover with the team you're paid to write about?

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10-09-2013, 10:22 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think the only "shaping up" was getting the hell away from the Philly Slob Corps of Journalistic Failures. I remember they even kept taking jabs at them after they were gone. Like...let it go you obsessed weirdos, isn't there enough to cover with the team you're paid to write about?
Yeah, statistics, a Cup win, and lack of existence of any other complaints about their personalities supports that they weren't cancers here yet people insist otherwise despite having no real proof except hearsay rumors from the very same media people here are constantly bashing.

EDIT: Also, there's pictures of them drinking alcohol. The horror.

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10-09-2013, 10:26 PM
  #730
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For most of Richards career here he was a 60 to 80 point Selke-caliber center and for most of Carter's career he was a 35 to 40 goal two-way center. Their careers outside of Philly thus far are in-line with that for the most part.

The only difference is that there's no more media fiasco surrounding them. Even their playoff performances are roughly the same.
Carter's playoff PPG is a lot higher in LA than it was here. 0.68 vs 0.45.

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10-09-2013, 10:32 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Carter's playoff PPG is a lot higher in LA than it was here. 0.68 vs 0.45.
Carter has three playoff seasons where he played six games each and put up little to no points so that weighs it down a lot. Even if you don't want to ignore those 18 games we're splitting hairs. Point is that the majority of his production is still similar to what he did in Philadelphia and there's been zero reports of problems with him outside of here. Fact still remains that the only reason to believe they were problems here were unconfirmed hearsay rumors from the very same media you guys have all been bashing the last couple of days.

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10-09-2013, 11:24 PM
  #732
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Carter's playoff PPG is a lot higher in LA than it was here. 0.68 vs 0.45.
Carter has been healthy in the playoffs during his prime years in LA.

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10-09-2013, 11:34 PM
  #733
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I think it's safe to say that LA is happy with the trade (yes, I know Carter came from Columbus technically), Philly isn't happy with Bryz, and there's been not one peep of lockerroom troubles stemming from them since they left.
I'm one of the few Carter fans left in Flyerland. Still hurts to see him play so well for the Kings.

It wasn't lockerroom trouble rumours that plagued Carter and Richards; it was off ice shenanigans, particularly with Carter. Dean Lombardi has been very open with speaking about Carter's maturity since he arrived in LA.

When you throw millions of dollars at young men, there needs to be an understanding that they're going to have fun. I don't know if the Flyers didn't help Carter settle or if he just needed to mature on his own, but he's a different guy in LA. I believe there was a recent article quoting Lombardi and Richards about Carter's maturity with the Kings.

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10-09-2013, 11:36 PM
  #734
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Hmm, lots of Richards and Carter talk. We're bored with coaches walking the plank already, are we?


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10-09-2013, 11:38 PM
  #735
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I'm one of the few Carter fans left in Flyerland. Still hurts to see him play so well for the Kings.

It wasn't lockerroom trouble rumours that plagued Carter and Richards; it was off ice shenanigans, particularly with Carter. Dean Lombardi has been very open with speaking about Carter's maturity since he arrived in LA.

When you throw millions of dollars at young men, there needs to be an understanding that they're going to have fun. I don't know if the Flyers didn't help Carter settle or if he just needed to mature on his own, but he's a different guy in LA. I believe there was a recent article quoting Lombardi and Richards about Carter's maturity with the Kings.
I'm a Carter fan too. His goal scoring ability is elite and a lot of people don't recognize it.

What you're saying is different from what others have though. The way some people think in Flyers land and the way the media acted they were borderline cancers.

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10-10-2013, 12:02 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I'm one of the few Carter fans left in Flyerland. Still hurts to see him play so well for the Kings.

It wasn't lockerroom trouble rumours that plagued Carter and Richards; it was off ice shenanigans, particularly with Carter. Dean Lombardi has been very open with speaking about Carter's maturity since he arrived in LA.

When you throw millions of dollars at young men, there needs to be an understanding that they're going to have fun. I don't know if the Flyers didn't help Carter settle or if he just needed to mature on his own, but he's a different guy in LA. I believe there was a recent article quoting Lombardi and Richards about Carter's maturity with the Kings.
I try to avoid commenting about those two seeing as how they've been gone for a couple years now but I do want to say this (and this will be the last time I talk about these two because we all really do need to desperately move on):

Yes, young people like to have fun and go out and all that kind of stuff. It makes it even more tempting and easier when you have millions of dollars but when you have the privilege of playing a professional sport for a living, you're held to a higher standard and you need to grow up quicker than the average early to mid twenty person. These teams are paying them a ton of money not to just play well but to act like an adult and be a good representative of their organization There is a time and place to go out, have fun and party. That's what the offseason is for. It's okay to go out after a game and have a beer or two but to get completely ****faced and stay out all night is irresponsible when you have practice or even a game the next day. If they really have grown up since leaving, good for them. It's unfortunate for us fans and the franchise that they couldn't do that here. It's not like they didn't have their chances. Lupul and Upshall were made examples of and were warnings to them to straighten up and fly right but they refused. I can't blame the Flyers for wanting to get away from that after multiple attempts to help them. Boston just did the same thing with Seguin. Maybe those trades will workout long term, maybe they won't. But one thing is for sure is that they had to be made because nothing was changing.


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10-10-2013, 12:17 AM
  #737
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Like I said before, their point production, defense, etc. haven't shifted much since going to LA. Their production is still pretty similar so I still fail to see how them needing to "grow up" (something that's still extremely convenient in the fact that no fan can possibly no that for sure nor argue against it) plays into anything here.

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10-10-2013, 12:33 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Carter has been healthy in the playoffs during his prime years in LA.
if you play hurt and suck you should be sitting because you are hurting the team.
if he sits and the team loses Carter gets blamed for not playing hurt. He never was going to win here with the fans or the media.
Dont get me wrong I liked the Carter trade but Carter had a hard time winning anyone over. even when hes scoring 30-40 goals.

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10-10-2013, 12:59 AM
  #739
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if you play hurt and suck you should be sitting because you are hurting the team.
if he sits and the team loses Carter gets blamed for not playing hurt. He never was going to win here with the fans or the media.
Dont get me wrong I liked the Carter trade but Carter had a hard time winning anyone over. even when hes scoring 30-40 goals.
Yeah it was weird with Carter. Guy was an elite goal scorer and decent two-way guy yet people were tired with his so-called streaky play and missing the net so much. Most high-quantity goal scorers shoot a lot and when that happens you're going to miss a lot as well.

There really aren't as many consistently great goal scorers as Carter when he's healthy.

23 goals his rookie season, then six of his seven seasons between then and now read with 29, 46, 33, 36, 21 in 55, and 26 in 48 (lockout season) goals scored. This season he already has 4 goals.

That's beyond impressive really. If those were all full seasons he easily has three 35+ goal seasons on his resume including one 46 goal one. As well as being an annual 30 goal threat. There's not many players that are consistently that good at getting goals and he's only 28.

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10-10-2013, 05:35 AM
  #740
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For most of Richards career here he was a 60 to 80 point Selke-caliber center and for most of Carter's career he was a 35 to 40 goal two-way center. Their careers outside of Philly thus far are in-line with that for the most part.

The only difference is that there's no more media fiasco surrounding them. Even their playoff performances are roughly the same. So, to sum up, despite the former poster saying (I'm paraphrasing here a bit) that they would both decline due to burning the candle at both ends and being supposed lockerroom cancers in Philly they're still performing exactly as they were here.

Kind of convenient that literally the only complaint about those two revolved around the media and fans and couldn't be proven by any means really. Also convenient that when that problem doesn't exist outside of Philly it's because they "shaped up".
So are you saying the Flyers traded Richards and Carter because of the media and fans? Really?

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10-10-2013, 06:55 AM
  #741
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Carter has been healthy in the playoffs during his prime years in LA.
INJURIES AREN'T AN EXCUSE!!!

...except that they really are.

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10-10-2013, 07:53 AM
  #742
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So ...

What do we think should be at the top of the new coach's list of Bad Things to Make Better with this team?

I'd say that he drill them on puck exits from their own zone, then extend that right to the opposition's blue line: make sure that the puck carrier is supported by some options who aren't standing still. But definitely make getting out of their zone the number 1 thing to perfect. Work it against double forecheck until they are doing it in their sleep.

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10-10-2013, 08:37 AM
  #743
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So ...

What do we think should be at the top of the new coach's list of Bad Things to Make Better with this team?

I'd say that he drill them on puck exits from their own zone, then extend that right to the opposition's blue line: make sure that the puck carrier is supported by some options who aren't standing still. But definitely make getting out of their zone the number 1 thing to perfect. Work it against double forecheck until they are doing it in their sleep.
How to not pass to the enemy team, lol.

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10-10-2013, 08:41 AM
  #744
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So ...

What do we think should be at the top of the new coach's list of Bad Things to Make Better with this team?

I'd say that he drill them on puck exits from their own zone, then extend that right to the opposition's blue line: make sure that the puck carrier is supported by some options who aren't standing still. But definitely make getting out of their zone the number 1 thing to perfect. Work it against double forecheck until they are doing it in their sleep.
Stop expecting other people to make the plays and get your feet moving. Play fast. Way too many casual observers on this roster right now.

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10-10-2013, 08:52 AM
  #745
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Yeah it was weird with Carter. Guy was an elite goal scorer and decent two-way guy yet people were tired with his so-called streaky play and missing the net so much. Most high-quantity goal scorers shoot a lot and when that happens you're going to miss a lot as well.

There really aren't as many consistently great goal scorers as Carter when he's healthy.

23 goals his rookie season, then six of his seven seasons between then and now read with 29, 46, 33, 36, 21 in 55, and 26 in 48 (lockout season) goals scored. This season he already has 4 goals.

That's beyond impressive really. If those were all full seasons he easily has three 35+ goal seasons on his resume including one 46 goal one. As well as being an annual 30 goal threat. There's not many players that are consistently that good at getting goals and he's only 28.
I miss both of them, for sure.

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10-10-2013, 08:56 AM
  #746
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....

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10-10-2013, 08:58 AM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Yeah it was weird with Carter. Guy was an elite goal scorer and decent two-way guy yet people were tired with his so-called streaky play and missing the net so much. Most high-quantity goal scorers shoot a lot and when that happens you're going to miss a lot as well.

There really aren't as many consistently great goal scorers as Carter when he's healthy.

23 goals his rookie season, then six of his seven seasons between then and now read with 29, 46, 33, 36, 21 in 55, and 26 in 48 (lockout season) goals scored. This season he already has 4 goals.

That's beyond impressive really. If those were all full seasons he easily has three 35+ goal seasons on his resume including one 46 goal one. As well as being an annual 30 goal threat. There's not many players that are consistently that good at getting goals and he's only 28.
And Holmgren got Voracek & Couturier:

Voracek since coming here:

18
22 (in 45)
0

Couturier so far:

13
4
0

If Coots devlops its still a win

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10-10-2013, 09:02 AM
  #748
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....
Damn you ninja edit.

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10-10-2013, 09:04 AM
  #749
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Damn you ninja edit.
I had a massive brain issue on that post.

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10-10-2013, 09:06 AM
  #750
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The roster needs more elite skill. Giroux right now is the only one who really you can say has elite skill level. Couts doesn't have the skating to have elite skills. Schenn plays more of a Richards type player and skill set. Read is great player but doesn't have elite puck skills. We need players like bobby Ryan and a Jordan eberle type player who can control the play with the puck. Voracek needs to start using his body again, when he does that and protects the puck, he is elite. His back isn't fully healthy though so I will give him a pass for a little longer.

That's my take atleast. If we had one more player like a eberle or Ryan they could really set this offense up. Elite puck skills is what this team needs. Giroux and voracek and the only two who have that ability to consistently do it. Vinny is a little beyond his prime.

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