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Old
10-02-2013, 02:09 PM
  #251
MonahanTheMan
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
That's a bad example as Hjalmarsson was a 4th round pick, Keith was a 2nd, Seabrook was a mid first, Saad was a 2nd. While both Kane and Toews were top 3 they also took Baker in the top 3 who busted. If anything the Blackhawks are an example of good drafting can build a team regardless of draft position.
The fact still is that there are two top three picks on that roster. You can look at Pittsburgh, too, that's another good example.

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10-02-2013, 02:11 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by MonahanTheMan View Post
The fact still is that there are two top three picks on that roster. You can look at Pittsburgh, too, that's another good example.
You said we only needed 1 now we need 2, Pitts had 4. Like I said when is enough enough?

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10-02-2013, 02:18 PM
  #253
MonahanTheMan
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
You said we only needed 1 now we need 2, Pitts had 4. Like I said when is enough enough?
I'm not saying we should totally follow the Chicago model or the Pittsburgh model - I'm not even saying we should intentionally bomb and try to pick up two or four high picks. But I'm saying that having multiple top-five picks is not really a bad thing.

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10-02-2013, 04:31 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by MonahanTheMan View Post
I'm not saying we should totally follow the Chicago model or the Pittsburgh model - I'm not even saying we should intentionally bomb and try to pick up two or four high picks. But I'm saying that having multiple top-five picks is not really a bad thing.
No but like your own example in Chicago picking top 5 doesn't = success we could easily get the next Cam Baker.

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10-02-2013, 08:23 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
No but like your own example in Chicago picking top 5 doesn't = success we could easily get the next Cam Baker.
There's at least a better chance in the top five than drafting six through fourteen.

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10-02-2013, 08:27 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by MonahanTheMan View Post
There's at least a better chance in the top five than drafting six through fourteen.
Well yes but that isn't what you said you said

Quote:
I feel like I'm the only one who didn't want us to get Stepan because I wanted us to tank...

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10-02-2013, 08:49 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Well yes but that isn't what you said you said
Tanking = top picks, top picks are way better than lower picks. I'm only saying what we know to be true. Obviously there is a small chance of a top three pick being a bust, but for the most part, it's better to tank this year. Good for the team in the long run.

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10-02-2013, 08:55 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by MonahanTheMan View Post
Tanking = top picks, top picks are way better than lower picks. I'm only saying what we know to be true. Obviously there is a small chance of a top three pick being a bust, but for the most part, it's better to tank this year. Good for the team in the long run.
Tanking = intentionally losing
but you said

Quote:
I'm not saying I want the team to intentionally bomb. I'm just saying that if the Flames were to bomb, I would not be upset at all.
so either you don't know what tanking is or you do want to tank and don't want to get ripped on.

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10-02-2013, 09:09 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
either you don't know what tanking is or you do want to tank and don't want to get ripped on.
I've always understood tanking as just losing a lot, so if by tanking you mean intentionally losing then yes, we're talking about two different things. Obviously intentionally losing is unacceptable.

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10-02-2013, 09:18 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by King Of The North View Post
Blackhawks did more than just draft top 3. Oilers have made a couple of decent moves to to upgrade their roster but you can still argue they haven't done much other than draft 1st round players.
Blackhawks are a great example of picking high, picking smart and getting good free agents.

LA is another example of this.

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10-02-2013, 09:25 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by MonahanTheMan View Post
I've always understood tanking as just losing a lot, so if by tanking you mean intentionally losing then yes, we're talking about two different things. Obviously intentionally losing is unacceptable.
Tanking is losing on purpose it is how Pitts got Crosby. People confuse what happened in Edmonont (tons of injuries and a mediocre to team to begin with) as tanking its not.

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10-02-2013, 09:27 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Tanking is losing on purpose it is how Pitts got Crosby. People confuse what happened in Edmonont (tons of injuries and a mediocre to team to begin with) as tanking its not.
It's debatable to a degree. They certainly could've done things to improve their team but didn't. They kind of stood pat and continued to lose. Again, I'm not saying one way or the other.. but it's an argument for sure.

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10-02-2013, 09:29 PM
  #263
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It's debatable to a degree. They certainly could've done things to improve their team but didn't. They kind of stood pat and continued to lose. Again, I'm not saying one way or the other.. but it's an argument for sure.
They lead the league in injuries (I believe they had over 500 man games lost the most since the 04 lockout). They could have done somethings but had nothing in farm to trade and only picks to move they did the smart thing. The year after is when they stopped trying no UFA's brought in basically forced Hall to carry them.

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10-02-2013, 10:44 PM
  #264
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No organization will use injuries as an excuse for poor results.....but it's true Edmonton has had bad luck with injuries since before their rebuild.

At the same time no one addressed their depth. They have NO depth. All their prospects worth playing in the NHL, are playing in the NHL. They lost because no one addressed their needs. They needed goaltending, defense and size. They still have yet to address it and as a result, guys like gagner, Eberle, etc have seen multiple coaches come and go, and have grown accustomed to losing.

Calgary has had ONE need since Jerome broke out: a center. We thought Cammy, Jokinen, etc would be that but they weren't.

Now we are in year one of our rebuild and what did we address? Size, depth, speed, youth, and a winning atmosphere (positive I guess, not winning).....

Point is, Edmonton DID tank to get the kids, they did nothing to address their needs, and are now banking on 4 of the same players they drafted to do big things.

No flames fan wants them to lose and will cheer when we see us lose in OT, or get destroyed 5-0....or you are not a fan. But lots of fans are ok with losing as in they don't have high expectations, guys making more than they should, or being promised that we will make the playoffs.

I do believe I am on the wrong board, because I don't put any stocks into draft picks until I see them play at this level. Sure you can have rankings, but barely anyone's rankings prove true. Lindholm vs Monahan? Who would you chose today?

Again, I want them to make the playoffs THIS year. Or at least come close..... I don't want to finish last, i can't handle that.

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10-02-2013, 11:00 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
No organization will use injuries as an excuse for poor results.....but it's true Edmonton has had bad luck with injuries since before their rebuild.

At the same time no one addressed their depth. They have NO depth. All their prospects worth playing in the NHL, are playing in the NHL. They lost because no one addressed their needs. They needed goaltending, defense and size. They still have yet to address it and as a result, guys like gagner, Eberle, etc have seen multiple coaches come and go, and have grown accustomed to losing.

Calgary has had ONE need since Jerome broke out: a center. We thought Cammy, Jokinen, etc would be that but they weren't.

Now we are in year one of our rebuild and what did we address? Size, depth, speed, youth, and a winning atmosphere (positive I guess, not winning).....

Point is, Edmonton DID tank to get the kids, they did nothing to address their needs, and are now banking on 4 of the same players they drafted to do big things.

No flames fan wants them to lose and will cheer when we see us lose in OT, or get destroyed 5-0....or you are not a fan. But lots of fans are ok with losing as in they don't have high expectations, guys making more than they should, or being promised that we will make the playoffs.

I do believe I am on the wrong board, because I don't put any stocks into draft picks until I see them play at this level. Sure you can have rankings, but barely anyone's rankings prove true. Lindholm vs Monahan? Who would you chose today?

Again, I want them to make the playoffs THIS year. Or at least come close..... I don't want to finish last, i can't handle that.
I look at it a little differently.

The Flames have never had an issue with on-ice product. Sure, they've had holes in the roster, but its not the players/coaches fault, it was management's fault for failing to address those holes, whether it was through the draft, free agency or through trades. Actually, the Flames weren't good in any of those areas for a long time. That's where the issue was! The Flames started to rebuild when Sutter was fired and continue to do so by hiring scouts, Burke, adding a skills coach, and looking at player developers, among other front office changes. Those are the guys that make the on-ice product.

Oilers promoted their crappy GM in Kevin Lowe, and then promoted their crappy coach in McTavish, creating an unaccountable old boys club. The Flames removed the nepotism, the old boys club, and held manager's accountable, and that will be the difference, regardless of what we see in the win column.

Even if the Flames lose badly for the next few seasons, they'll have a better rebuild. They will improve in areas that matter and eventually it will produce results on the ice. They'll perform well in the draft outside the first round, they'll improve player development, and they'll scout trades better. I'm not worried at all.

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10-09-2013, 11:45 PM
  #266
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How has Colborne been?

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10-10-2013, 12:02 AM
  #267
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How has Colborne been?
Whole lot of meh so far, although he has been skating better every game. He hasn't been given a whole lot of opportunity yet, other than his first game where he was clearly a step behind.

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10-10-2013, 12:05 AM
  #268
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Not even 4 minutes tonight and only 1 shift in the third. He should have been out there to take faceoffs tonight but wasnt. Dont know the point of trading for him if hes only going to be given a handful of shifts a game.

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10-10-2013, 12:18 AM
  #269
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Like I said in the GDT, this guy NEEDS to find that extra gear.. It's obvious Hartley isn't going to hand him ice time on a platter. The only thing I noticed about him was a bad giveaway 3 feet from the net.. Really hope he turns it around

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10-10-2013, 12:19 AM
  #270
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I haven't seen him to know? It seems Hartley and Feaster aren't on the same page here

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10-10-2013, 03:20 AM
  #271
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I haven't seen him to know? It seems Hartley and Feaster aren't on the same page here
How do you figure? Feaster has said players have to earn their spots, he hasn't done that yet

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10-10-2013, 03:24 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I haven't seen him to know? It seems Hartley and Feaster aren't on the same page here
I think it's more Hartley's "give it to the line which has looked good" mentality. He has begun giving Baertschi and Monahan increased playing time as they've begun to look better. Colborne hasn't really done much to warrant extra playing time over anybody else.

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10-10-2013, 03:28 AM
  #273
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He's been playing like a movie extra; no lines, no action.. Just a guy eating cake in the background.

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10-10-2013, 07:58 AM
  #274
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I think his play so far is kind of expected. I wasn't anticipating him coming in and getting a lot of ice-time. He isn't in line for PP or PK time, so he's likely getting spot duty on the 4th line this season or scratched a decent amount, while we sit and wait and see what he can do as injuries crop up.

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10-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #275
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How do you figure? Feaster has said players have to earn their spots, he hasn't done that yet
Feaster burns a 4th to bring in a guy who plays less than McGrattan. There's guys on waivers that could do that.

What do you expect him to earn in so few minutes?

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