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Where's the Defense!- Habs lose 3-2

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Old
10-10-2013, 08:40 AM
  #476
Habs Junkie
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Since the beginning of the season total PP time:
Desharnais 10:28
Eller 9:20
Plekanec 6:00

Therrien is a joke

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10-10-2013, 08:52 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Since the beginning of the season total PP time:
Desharnais 10:28
Eller 9:20
Plekanec 6:00

Therrien is a joke
Well IF you're going to play Desharnais...you might as well play him on the PP. So I understand that angle, if he's not going to play on the PP, then he shouldn't dress at all IMO.

As for Plekanec, he hasn't earned more PP time either...so not sure what MT is to do here...

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10-10-2013, 08:54 AM
  #478
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Well IF you're going to play Desharnais...you might as well play him on the PP. So I understand that angle, if he's not going to play on the PP, then he shouldn't dress at all IMO.

As for Plekanec, he hasn't earned more PP time either...so not sure what MT is to do here...
Every answer to every question is the same, DD needs to be benched

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10-10-2013, 09:02 AM
  #479
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Every answer to every question is the same, DD needs to be benched
More precisely, he needs to be benched 42 times...

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10-10-2013, 09:07 AM
  #480
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If you want to get the DD line going and try to tie the game, you have to play them. They played around 16 minutes, not 20 or 22. It's what any coach would have done. Would you rather see the White line out there? They were -2.

In regards to Bouillon, who would you rather see on the 2nd PP, Gorges? Tinordi?

MT had few choices the last minute of the game, he had 4 d-men left, you're not going to send Tinordi out to try and Markov was already out there.
You don't need to see the White line. You know you are allowed to shuffle players and lines right? The Plekanec line shared some struggles, maybe put MaxPac between Plek and Bourque for shift, or switch Plek and DD.
As for our PP, yea, try Tinordi. He has a decent shot and skates well. How can it be worse anyways??

But you know what, I mentioned this quite a few times already, that's what the training camp is for. Trying new lines in case crap like yesterday happen. It's good to know 2nd options if ever your team looks flat out there or if two lines aren't working.

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It's always the same song and dance.

Tinordi with the giveaway on the 2nd goal.

The White line on the ice for the first two. Subban caught up ice on the 1st, in the box for the 3rd and again with 2 minutes left trying to tie the game.

Yet it's Bouillon getting called out despite not making any glaring mistakes or even being on the ice for a goal as far as I can tell...
It's not because Bouillon didn't make a mistake that resulted in a goal that he played well.
People are annoyed with Bouillon because he is still being used on the PP, after two periods he somehow was used more than our Norris winner, he often loses his board battles, his coverage in front is bad as well. It didn't result in goals against this time, but it certainly could have. And did you see him during the last minute?? He gave away the puck to the Flames like 6 times when we had an open net. He was clearing the puck when we were SH with an empty net, that's just ********...

But yes, people have a very short leash on Bouillon. Mainly becomes he brings very little to the team and is used way too much.

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10-10-2013, 09:09 AM
  #481
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I had a bigger issue with Gorges passing Tinordi the puck on that play...in that instance, Gorges has to be Tinordi's eyes behind his head. It was kind of hard for Tinordi to know that the Flames player was right on his back waiting for him to play a puck.

Gorges should of reemed the puck hard around the boards to try to get it out of the zone.

The White line was awful all game, the Habs were obviously asleep and it's usually their job to do something to provoke the team, instead they got scored on twice.

I thought Pacioretty/Brière played pretty good games...but their center, he just can't get anything going right now. Time to wonder if even sitting DD and playing Bournival in his place makes more sense at this point.

Plekanec, I keep saying it, and I know it seems to offend a lot of you...but he was again invisible. He never does anything to make you notice him negatively, but he rarely does anything these days, to make you notice he's playing at all. He's been a passenger for too long when he should be one of the leaders...

Obviously, a brain-cramp for Subban last night...but i'm sorry, he was one of the few Habs who seemed to play with some urgency last night, who realized that this was a game they should of dominated. He took one bad penalty (the other penalty was a joke) but otherwise was the best player on the ice, despite his coaching staff not realizing it.

I know it's only been 3 games...but the coaching staff needs to make some obvious adjustments. They didn't show ANY patience with Eller last year after one game, it may be time to send a shock message to Desharnais
A line change for Plekanec might be in order. I don't think he can carry Gionta anymore. I would try switching Plek and DD.

I put this on the coach, I think it was completely stupid coming into this season with the exact same lines as last year. The Plek line had slowed down, and the DD line was struggling, MaxPac aside. We were being carried by Eller's line and that's why everything starting sinking once he got injured.
I expected our coaches to realize this. Even if you want to stick to the same lines, I would have liked to see them attempt new ones during camp, just to see what other combinations could work.

I also think Prust should play on a 3rd line with skilled players.

I agree about PK and DD as well.

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10-10-2013, 09:10 AM
  #482
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Well IF you're going to play Desharnais...you might as well play him on the PP. So I understand that angle, if he's not going to play on the PP, then he shouldn't dress at all IMO.

As for Plekanec, he hasn't earned more PP time either...so not sure what MT is to do here...
You're right that Plekanec has been rather invisible this season. As for Desharnais he's not even that good on the PP, he really has trouble when it comes to setting up and keeping the puck in their zone. That whole line does, their board play is terrible. Just a soft line, I'd like to see Patches go into the dirty areas more and skate harder...

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10-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #483
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And did you see him during the last minute?? He gave away the puck to the Flames like 6 times when we had an open net. He was clearing the puck when we were SH with an empty net, that's just ********....
I wish someone could youtube it. Watching it live I don't think I appreciated the hilarity of that minute.

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10-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #484
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You're right that Plekanec has been rather invisible this season. As for Desharnais he's not even that good on the PP, he really has trouble when it comes to setting up and keeping the puck in their zone. That whole line does, their board play is terrible. Just a soft line, I'd like to see Patches go into the dirty areas more and skate harder...
Max Pac still hasn't learn to play like a true power forward on a constant basis. I like the guy, but it's about time he does.

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10-10-2013, 09:19 AM
  #485
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Max Pac still hasn't learn to play like a true power forward on a constant basis. I like the guy, but it's about time he does.
Give it up. It won't happen. That's not the kind of player he is or will be. People need to stop holding players to ridiculous expectations and then getting mad when they don't live up to them.

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10-10-2013, 09:20 AM
  #486
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I wish someone could youtube it. Watching it live I don't think I appreciated the hilarity of that minute.
That's typical of Bouillon though...but what killed me was that the Habs had an empty net and they were on the PK

Not blaming Bouillon for last night's loss, there were certainly other factors at play

But man, is he ever an awful dman...

Someone needs explain to me why we're not just using Beaulieu over him...

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10-10-2013, 09:22 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well IF you're going to play Desharnais...you might as well play him on the PP. So I understand that angle, if he's not going to play on the PP, then he shouldn't dress at all IMO.

As for Plekanec, he hasn't earned more PP time either...so not sure what MT is to do here...
It's not fair to have different standards. That's how crap starts.
DD didn't earn PP time either. I know that's where he should be used, but he still hasn't created much. No reason for him to get more ice time there than Plekanec.
Also, Eller and Plekanec were more effective at scoring on the PP last year. So was Gionta/MaxPac/Gallagher.
This year, DD and Briere haven no PP pts.

I understand the logic behind using DD, but I don't think it's fair nor do I think it's in our best interest.

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10-10-2013, 09:27 AM
  #488
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It's not fair to have different standards. That's how crap starts.
DD didn't earn PP time either. I know that's where he should be used, but he still hasn't created much. No reason for him to get more ice time there than Plekanec.
Also, Eller and Plekanec were more effective at scoring on the PP last year. So was Gionta/MaxPac/Gallagher.
This year, DD and Briere haven no PP pts.

I understand the logic behind using DD, but I don't think it's fair nor do I think it's in our best interest.
I don't disagree here...but i'm just speaking in terms of what we see every night.

Desharnais IS part of the lineup every night...so if he's in the lineup, the PP is probably the best time to actually give him icetime.

Whether or not DD should be in the lineup is an entirely different argument all together and it's one where we both share the same opinion.

As far as Brière, he doesn't look comfortable at wing at all...and I really don't understand why the coaching staff is going out of its way to continue to accommodate Desharnais

(Brière at wing, Galchenyuk at wing, Eller not being used to his full capacity, Plekanec fading into the background)...it's almost entirely done to accomodate Desharnais staying in the lineup

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10-10-2013, 09:29 AM
  #489
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Max Pac still hasn't learn to play like a true power forward on a constant basis. I like the guy, but it's about time he does.
That's probably because he's not a true PF. But I also think he's being held back by being used on the 2nd line. He should be playing next to Plekanec.

I would scratch DD, move MaxPac up to play with Plek and Bourque, and also open a spot for Prust in top 9. Reshuffle lines.
EGG line is great, but we won't go anywhere with one line. So might as well break it up and try something new, before it's too late.

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10-10-2013, 09:32 AM
  #490
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Give it up. It won't happen. That's not the kind of player he is or will be. People need to stop holding players to ridiculous expectations and then getting mad when they don't live up to them.
You're right. He is what he is and he's good at it. If we want a guy who's going to play a power game we have to draft or trade for him. Let Max be Max.

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10-10-2013, 09:32 AM
  #491
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plecky is a better opton at the point for the powerplay than boullion ....

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10-10-2013, 09:34 AM
  #492
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That's probably because he's not a true PF. But I also think he's being held back by being used on the 2nd line. He should be playing next to Plekanec.

I would scratch DD, move MaxPac up to play with Plek and Bourque, and also open a spot for Prust in top 9. Reshuffle lines.
EGG line is great, but we won't go anywhere with one line. So might as well break it up and try something new, before it's too late.
Pacioretty-Brière-Bourque
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher
Prust-Plekanec-Gionta
Moen-Bournival-White

That's what I'd like to see...I think Brière is this team's best playmaker and who has the best vision, I wouldn't touch the kid line and I like having Prust-Plekanec-Gionta as our defensive/matchup line.

At a certain point, when it comes to Desharnais...you gotta sit him out, if he's not creating offense (nevermind producing points) then he's totally useless out there.

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10-10-2013, 09:34 AM
  #493
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That's probably because he's not a true PF. But I also think he's being held back by being used on the 2nd line. He should be playing next to Plekanec.

I would scratch DD, move MaxPac up to play with Plek and Bourque, and also open a spot for Prust in top 9. Reshuffle lines.
EGG line is great, but we won't go anywhere with one line. So might as well break it up and try something new, before it's too late.
Max Plecs Bourque
Gally Eller Gally

Looks good... but then...

Briere DD Gionta? Wow.

And see that's the problem with having so many smurfs. We have to cater to them because if we don't we get a line like that. They would be absolutely eaten alive.

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10-10-2013, 09:34 AM
  #494
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I don't disagree here...but i'm just speaking in terms of what we see every night.

Desharnais IS part of the lineup every night...so if he's in the lineup, the PP is probably the best time to actually give him icetime.

Whether or not DD should be in the lineup is an entirely different argument all together and it's one where we both share the same opinion.

As far as Brière, he doesn't look comfortable at wing at all...and I really don't understand why the coaching staff is going out of its way to continue to accommodate Desharnais

(Brière at wing, Galchenyuk at wing, Eller not being used to his full capacity, Plekanec fading into the background)...it's almost entirely done to accomodate Desharnais staying in the lineup
Agreed. That's why I was so disappointed when we went after Briere. We already had one player that we needed to accommodate, now we have two. On top of it, some lines can't be assembled because they would get crushed.
Signing Jagr would have made it so much easier, and it seems he has no issues scoring in NJ. What a dumb move getting Briere was, but anyways, that's another story.

But yes, I would move DD out of the line up, and make him come back the same route Eller went through. On the fourth line next to Moen. Either that or I'd tell MB to trade him.

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10-10-2013, 09:35 AM
  #495
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You're right. He is what he is and he's good at it. If we want a guy who's going to play a power game we have to draft or trade for him. Let Max be Max.
Max is one of the best LW's in the game. Pisses me off that he's under-appreciated around here because he doesn't choose to smash people when he can be putting himself in a better position to score.

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10-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #496
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Give it up. It won't happen. That's not the kind of player he is or will be. People need to stop holding players to ridiculous expectations and then getting mad when they don't live up to them.
Oh I'm not mad, it's just hockey. But if Max Pac doesn't become a true power forward (I agree with your assessment that he may never become one), then he won't be anything more than a second line winger. It's ok, but it means that Habs won't have a power forward, and none is coming short term (McCarron is still way too young).

So it becomes another area, with the need of a true #2 d-man, where Bergevin will have to be creative if he wants to phase the dev of all players toward a Stanley Cup.

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10-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Max Plecs Bourque
Gally Eller Gally

Looks good... but then...

Briere DD Gionta? Wow.

And see that's the problem with having so many smurfs. We have to cater to them because if we don't we get a line like that. They would be absolutely eaten alive.
You and I were agreed that getting Briere made no sense, and that's why right there.

However, I would scratch DD, move Prust up. See how Briere does centering Prust/Gionta. As a 3rd line depth getting very sheltered minutes, I think they could get by. Plek and Eller would be two solid lines that would get the tougher match ups.

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10-10-2013, 09:38 AM
  #498
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Oh I'm not mad, it's just hockey. But if Max Pac doesn't become a true power forward (I agree with your assessment that he may never become one), then he won't be anything more than a second line winger. It's ok, but it means that Habs won't have a power forward, and none is coming short term (McCarron is still way too young).

So it becomes another area, with the need of a true #2 d-man, where Bergevin will have to be creative if he wants to phase the dev of all players toward a Stanley Cup.
Good god, just stop

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10-10-2013, 09:39 AM
  #499
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Agreed. That's why I was so disappointed when we went after Briere. We already had one player that we needed to accommodate, now we have two. On top of it, some lines can't be assembled because they would get crushed.
Signing Jagr would have made it so much easier, and it seems he has no issues scoring in NJ. What a dumb move getting Briere was, but anyways, that's another story.

But yes, I would move DD out of the line up, and make him come back the same route Eller went through. On the fourth line next to Moen. Either that or I'd tell MB to trade him.
I don't really have a problem with Brière to be honest...I MUCH prefer Brière to Desharnais. I just would rather not have BOTH...

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10-10-2013, 09:40 AM
  #500
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Oh I'm not mad, it's just hockey. But if Max Pac doesn't become a true power forward (I agree with your assessment that he may never become one), then he won't be anything more than a second line winger. It's ok, but it means that Habs won't have a power forward, and none is coming short term (McCarron is still way too young).

So it becomes another area, with the need of a true #2 d-man, where Bergevin will have to be creative if he wants to phase the dev of all players toward a Stanley Cup.
He's already a first line winger, he's that good offensively.

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