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Rangers season at crossroads--already

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Old
10-10-2013, 08:41 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Two seasons ago yes, but not last year, Torts went to the press complaining about the "middle of the lineup" several times.
Sather gutted the lineup for get Nash. Tortorella basically had to tell the GM how to do his job -- and he was right. The team looked a lot better when it replenished some depth with the Gaborik trade.

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10-10-2013, 08:42 AM
  #52
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So let's see...Monday night we were planning the Stanley Cup parade. Tuesday night we're facing Armegeddon. The truth is somewhere in between.

I'm not getting worked up either way until we've played 10-12 games and start to see how this settles out. If this was January, I would be stringing up the coach. Right now, I'm just not going to get too worked up. That's dangerous at my age.
I don't think anyone is stringing up the coach. The players deserve a ton of blame. The GM deserves a ton of blame. The Head of Scouting and AGM deserves a ton of blame It's the confluence of events and decisions that have resulted in this concoction that is the biggest concern.

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10-10-2013, 08:45 AM
  #53
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This board is sooooooo schizophrenic.

24 hours ago there are an incredible amount of reactionary posts blaming the team for quitting in the San Jose game. Brooks writes an article saying the exact same thing, and he gets reviled on here.

Bizarre.

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10-10-2013, 08:47 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think anyone is stringing up the coach. The players deserve a ton of blame. The GM deserves a ton of blame. The Head of Hcouting and AGM deserves a ton of blame It's confluence of events and decisions that have resulted in this concoction that is the biggest concern.
Trying to stay level headed,but it really seems to be just par for the course. It's a collection of decisions that permeates the entire organization. Which to me signals a leadership issue.

If this team has any hope they need to come out like a bat out of hell tonight. No prisoners and no excuses. You get disgraced like they did you damn well better respond to the kick. How long will that boost last? Your guess is as good as mine. But tonight is really a bare minimum "must" for me; not even in terms of results but in terms of effort.

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10-10-2013, 08:51 AM
  #55
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I know its 3 games into the season but this was NOT a normal loss...this was a disgrace to the sweater....Callahan is not a leader...after that circus goal was scored someone on the ice should of went over and pummeled this guy...no one did a thing...no one on the bench did anything....remember a few yrs ago when anisimov did that shotgun pump celebration, well what happened? vinny lecavilier went over over and pummeled anisimov and rightly so...our whole bench did nothing...torts would of never stood for this...he would of sent a message on the ice or on the next shift...we stood by like chickens and did nothing...Callahan was quiet like a mouse, that 'C' should be ripped off his chest....messier in that situation would of ko'ed the kid and anyone on the ice...this is a soft pathetic bunch now with a softie coach to go with it
Yea sure, like when Tortorella sent a message after Betts got his face smashed in th POs by Brashear? Or when Gaborik got annihilated by Carcillo, Nash boarded by Lucic, Mcdonagh elbowed by Paccioretty or boarded by AO??

Tortorella would have done Nothing. ....

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10-10-2013, 08:54 AM
  #56
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AV has freed this team up, it's now a question of whether or not we can play consistently like we did against LA or not.

Things like our D coverage and bottom 9 production can't be judged on three games, so I'll give them 10-12 like others have mentioned and see where we are at. If we make it out of this road trip at .500 or better I won't be too worried, this is the most ridiculous trip ever. Even worse than the Europe trips IMO.

As far as AV handling things behind closed doors with an iron fist that's kind of how things should be handled.

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10-10-2013, 09:08 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Appreciate the level headed reason. It's easy to get a little wrapped up.

BBKers, interesting stuff.
how is not saying anything interesting?

he said nothing in that post.

That was Eklund-esque

basically saying nothing in a round about way.

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10-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Yea sure, like when Tortorella sent a message after Betts got his face smashed in th POs by Brashear? Or when Gaborik got annihilated by Carcillo, Nash boarded by Lucic, Mcdonagh elbowed by Paccioretty or boarded by AO??

Tortorella would have done Nothing. ....
those instances are not the same as the circus goal situation...a real team and a real leader like vinny cavalier would not allow that type of goal to be scored...when anisimov tried that he got ko'ed...when it happens to us we stood by like lame idiots....last night on the nhl network they ridiculed our soft team for not doing anything about it

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10-10-2013, 09:13 AM
  #59
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how is not saying anything interesting?

he said nothing in that post.

That was Eklund-esque

basically saying nothing in a round about way.
Just reading between the lines. And the guy has proven to have some good info in the past.

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10-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #60
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People bringing stuff up from 4 years ago about how this team "isn't tough" is hilarious.

Not only has the roster completely flipped since Drury got knocked out or Carcillo went after Gaborik, but every single team in the league can point to situations like that over the course of the last 300 games or so. Are you telling me those teams delivered retribution for every single thing? What a silly myth thats completely missing the bigger picture as to why this team continues to struggle.

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10-10-2013, 09:16 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Yea sure, like when Tortorella sent a message after Betts got his face smashed in th POs by Brashear? Or when Gaborik got annihilated by Carcillo, Nash boarded by Lucic, Mcdonagh elbowed by Paccioretty or boarded by AO??

Tortorella would have done Nothing. ....
how long have you been watching hockey? in the playoffs there is no retaliating....but 3 games into the regular season, yes you do what is necessary not to get embarrassed

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10-10-2013, 09:17 AM
  #62
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I dont see any reason to be remotely nervous yet. The margins in this game is so unbelieveably small at times.

The Rangers could have tied the game to 2-2 with Zucc's pass to Pouliot with 2 seconds to go, but he could'nt put it in. A course of action which would have changed the entire match.

All teams suffer a major single game collapses at some point. We see it in European soccer every once in a while. At some point, some team is going to have a game where everythin they do gets turned into gold. This time it was the Rangers time to taste the sweet fruit of One-team-on-the-ice.

Pulling Hank might as well have been a major contributor to just that, seeing as Birons first action on the ice was to allow one in.

But this is all just guesswork, it was a horrible performance by the Rangers, but we all know that they are a better hockeyteam than what they showed there. Hopefully tonight will be a permanent turnaround.

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10-10-2013, 09:19 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
Larry Brooks is like 90% of the people that post on this board, only he can't blame his youth and inexperience for his overreactions. I'd be a lot more worried if the team didn't look so good in L.A. just one night before, but "worry" is still probably the wrong word for it. We all knew this team would be up against it early on - too many things working against them. I'll hold off on my evaluation and worrying until Thanksgiving at the earliest.

That said,

AV sucks
Henrik sucks with small pads
Nash' career is over but he was lazy anyway
Stepan isn't a dynamic offensive player
McDonagh peaked in '11-'12
yada yada yada
Hey man I'm part of that 90%. I see you're part of the 10%. I was wondering if you could tutor me on how things work, and how to evaluate a team?

You're obviously a very calm, professional hockey analyst.

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10-10-2013, 09:21 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think anyone is stringing up the coach. The players deserve a ton of blame. The GM deserves a ton of blame. The Head of Scouting and AGM deserves a ton of blame It's the confluence of events and decisions that have resulted in this concoction that is the biggest concern.
Correct...

It's amazing how I'm on your team now haha. The millenials are ruining this site for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
AV has freed this team up, it's now a question of whether or not we can play consistently like we did against LA or not.

Things like our D coverage and bottom 9 production can't be judged on three games, so I'll give them 10-12 like others have mentioned and see where we are at. If we make it out of this road trip at .500 or better I won't be too worried, this is the most ridiculous trip ever. Even worse than the Europe trips IMO.

As far as AV handling things behind closed doors with an iron fist that's kind of how things should be handled.
What worries is me is after Torts, that "iron fist" is probably gonna feel like a Swedish massage.

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Old
10-10-2013, 09:22 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Idlerlee View Post
I dont see any reason to be remotely nervous yet. The margins in this game is so unbelieveably small at times.

The Rangers could have tied the game to 2-2 with Zucc's pass to Pouliot with 2 seconds to go, but he could'nt put it in. A course of action which would have changed the entire match.

All teams suffer a major single game collapses at some point. We see it in European soccer every once in a while. At some point, some team is going to have a game where everythin they do gets turned into gold. This time it was the Rangers time to taste the sweet fruit of One-team-on-the-ice.

Pulling Hank might as well have been a major contributor to just that, seeing as Birons first action on the ice was to allow one in.

But this is all just guesswork, it was a horrible performance by the Rangers, but we all know that they are a better hockeyteam than what they showed there. Hopefully tonight will be a permanent turnaround.
Zuccarello continues to be the league leader in missed production. Poor little guy.

Pointing to 1 instance in a 9-2 final and pretending the game would've wound up much differently is a very large leap.

Almost time for that Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello line to go -- they epitomize soft hockey and, worst of all, offer no production.

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10-10-2013, 09:24 AM
  #66
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I wasn't saying that it would have changed everything, but was merely trying to point out just how small the margins can be from drawing the match, to total collapse

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10-10-2013, 09:26 AM
  #67
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I wasn't saying that it would have changed everything, but was merely trying to point out just how small the margins can be from drawing the match, to total collapse
For a mentally weak team, thats true.

Say what you want about previous incarnations under Tortorella, but they rarely folded like a cheap suit. In fact, most of their losses were by 1-2 goals.

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10-10-2013, 09:33 AM
  #68
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Trying to stay level headed,but it really seems to be just par for the course. It's a collection of decisions that permeates the entire organization. Which to me signals a leadership issue.
100% correct and I'm sick of it. This franchise needs to lay out a plan and stick to it, no more of this hodgepodge of playing styles, coaching styles and front office decisions. Develop a strategy and stick to it, no matter what until it runs its course and then adjust accordingly.

Instead we get the honor of having Slats give his yearly summer interview and its always the same crap about how now because so and so won the cup that the way they play is the way we need to play.

How about we develop our own identity? And after we do that, how about we draft and sign players that fit that? We go from guys like Dubinsky, Prust etc. to guys like Pouliot.

We basically have been trying to rebuild and contend for the Cup at the same time and its not the proper way of building a team. We spent a top 10 pick on a Tough D-Man because we need it. I have no problem with Mcilrath, I like him a lot but you don't draft for a need right then and there and if you do it better be someone who is actually gonna step in right away, not a project. We would have been better off trading that pick with other assets for someone who fills that role now so to actually help the team. That's what a team trying to win now does. Not to mention that drafting this way puts an enormous amount of pressure on kids that's not warranted.

We do the same thing in Free Agency as well. We lay all the failures of this franchise in each particular area at the feet of one certain player thinking they can change it all themselves. I got news for ya, when things are neglected and allowed to become part of the culture and DNA of a team you can't expect one person to change your fortunes.

We honestly need an overhaul from the top down and have for years but this is what we got. I love this team and this franchise, city and fans deserve a hell of a lot better!


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10-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
For a mentally weak team, thats true.

Say what you want about previous incarnations under Tortorella, but they rarely folded like a cheap suit. In fact, most of their losses were by 1-2 goals.
I think that's part of the reason why I couldn't just discount the game as just another loss... we haven't had an epic meltdown like that since 2009 back during Torts first full season as coach. It was unsettling to see the team totally cave in after they have avoided getting blown out and giving up so many goals in that magnitude for so long. They better come out flying tonight.

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10-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by tailgunner View Post
those instances are not the same as the circus goal situation...a real team and a real leader like vinny cavalier would not allow that type of goal to be scored...when anisimov tried that he got ko'ed...when it happens to us we stood by like lame idiots....last night on the nhl network they ridiculed our soft team for not doing anything about it
What difference does it make? Circus goal or teams assaulting our stars Tortorella did nothing.
He was tough on the players but he was far from a coach that would "send a message"

I am in agreement with you, but not on torts...

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10-10-2013, 09:38 AM
  #71
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I think that's part of the reason why I couldn't just discount the game as just another loss... we haven't had an epic meltdown like that since 2009 back during Torts first full season as coach. It was unsettling to see the team totally cave in after they have avoided getting blown out and giving up so many goals in that magnitude for so long. They better come out flying tonight.
Exactly. For me, its not just the loss, its how they lost.

I expect a perennial disappointment like Pouliot to lay down his guns when the going gets tough -- but you had guys that battled tooth and nail in years past just quit the other night.

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10-10-2013, 09:44 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by tailgunner View Post
those instances are not the same as the circus goal situation...a real team and a real leader like vinny cavalier would not allow that type of goal to be scored...when anisimov tried that he got ko'ed...when it happens to us we stood by like lame idiots....last night on the nhl network they ridiculed our soft team for not doing anything about it
I'm ALL for getting tougher, but you really have your head on backwards if you think addressing Hertl there is more important that addressing Carcillo, or Lucic or Patches.

Playoffs I get. You bank what happens in the PO's and address it during the next Reg. season.

The Rangers should have physically addressed Stuart to start the 2nd.

The Rangers should have physically addressed San Jose after the 6th total goal (4th in 4 minutes) during the 2nd.

The Rangers should have physically showed up to start the 3rd period.

going after Hertl in a 9-2 game where you have shown no previous emotion is pathetic, lame and disingenuous at best.

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10-10-2013, 09:53 AM
  #73
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how long have you been watching hockey? in the playoffs there is no retaliating....but 3 games into the regular season, yes you do what is necessary not to get embarrassed
What coach have you been watching the past 4 years? Tortorella never "sent messages" on the ice
Are you just another hockey revisionist?

I saw Carkner retaliate in the 1st rd 2 years ago after Boyle tried to get rough with Karlson...
Gave him a concussion?

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Old
10-10-2013, 10:05 AM
  #74
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also a lot of people are not realizing that the Sharks are going to be a powerhouse team this year. They will do some serious damage in the playoffs

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10-10-2013, 10:09 AM
  #75
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also a lot of people are not realizing that the Sharks are going to be a powerhouse team this year. They will do some serious damage in the playoffs
It's because they have an identity. This team does not.

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