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Rangers season at crossroads--already

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:24 PM
  #126
savebyrichter420
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There's no identity because there is no direction. It starts with Sather, always has and always will! This team is built like ****! On top of it all they are just boring, no big hits, no fights, no stirring the pot, no goal scoring, no toughness or intimidation. No reason why other teams can find these players over the length of Sather's tenure but we can not except for the fact that he's an outdated piece of software crashing the whole system!

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10-10-2013, 01:25 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
If it takes the Rangers until December to find their stride under the new coach, this won't be a playoff team. You can't throw away 2 months of the season and expect to compete.

They need to start finding their game by the 7-8 game mark. If it's still like this by game 15, 16, 17, etc, it will be an uphill battle the entire season.
Agee. Even a negative fan like me will admit that you have to give them 20 games before you can make a reasonable assessment.

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10-10-2013, 01:25 PM
  #128
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It's been 3 games. They very well still could. They all looked like they were stepping up and playing a nice offensive game a few days ago. The first few games mean nothing in the scheme of an 81 game season, whether they're all 10 - 0 losses or 10 - 0 wins.
I understand this point and believe it's true, it is early. I am just making my own observations from all (3) of the games + preseason I have seen.

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Do you think it will be easy to find a team ready and willing to give up a young, proven, offensive player? The kind that every team in the league yearns for? The kind that can be obtained for roster player you're unwilling to give up and some of our not overly impressive prospects?

The team is not just one move away.
This is what scares me the most. Nash was supposed to be that 'last piece'. They are at least 3 pieces away from seriously competing. They need another offensive dynamo. They need a top-9 power forward who can drop the gloves and intimidate and they need a true offensive defenseman.

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10-10-2013, 01:26 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
There's no identity because there is no direction. It starts with Sather, always has and always will! This team is built like ****! On top of it all they are just boring, no big hits, no fights, no stirring the pot, no goal scoring, no toughness or intimidation. No reason why other teams can find these players over the length of Sather's tenure but we can not except for the fact that he's an outdated piece of software crashing the whole system!
And it only took until game 3 for our best skater to get run and injured...with no response.

But yeah "it's only 3 games". Ok...

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10-10-2013, 01:26 PM
  #130
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It's a big circle

How did those teams get most of those players?

They drafted them in the first part of the first round.

Where do the Rangers draft and why?

They draft later in the first if at all because they artificially improve their place in the standings with UFAs and they give away picks for rentals or in other trades.

Why don't the Rangers have those players?

The worst part about it is when they do have that draft position where they could maybe just maybe luck out and pick up one of those types of players, they take reach picks or draft for need, a need that player has no hope of filling at the NHL for several years. Or they took goalies.

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10-10-2013, 01:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
I'm just going to stop. I generally agree with what you have to say, but in this case, you're on a cliff, 3 games into the season. The pre-season are not real games.

I'll reserve my panic if they're record is awful and they still look like this at the 10-15 game mark.
He is not on a cliff. Most of us aren't. We aren't saying OMGZZZ SEAONZ OVAR!! We are concerned that this team has yet to play with any sort of emotion or fire. Playing with intensity and adapting to a new system are in no way correlated.

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:29 PM
  #132
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Agee. Even a negative fan like me will admit that you have to give them 20 games before you can make a reasonable assessment.
it doesn't take 20 minutes to smell the Limburger cheese.

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10-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #133
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This is what scares me the most. Nash was supposed to be that 'last piece'. They are at least 3 pieces away from seriously competing. They need another offensive dynamo. They need a top-9 power forward who can drop the gloves and intimidate and they need a true offensive defenseman.
Something has to be done and Sather is not the lion he likes to think he is. If there isn't a move to make during the season, then go after it in the draft. My fear is that these holes will never be recognized and we'll forever hope that players like Callahan can be our Ovechkin, Del Zotto our Subban, etc.

I mean Jesus Christ, Tomas Hertl was a middle round first pick a year or two ago and we all know who he is and what he's up to!!

Being a little aggressive and making one move to start will mask all the other holes as players will start to slot in where they should. IE Pouliot is way overmatched at 2nd line wing and I'm already getting tired of him there.

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10-10-2013, 01:31 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
It's a big circle

How did those teams get most of those players?

They drafted them in the first part of the first round.

Where do the Rangers draft and why?

They draft later in the first if at all because they artificially improve their place in the standings with UFAs and they give away picks for rentals or in other trades.

Why don't the Rangers have those players?

The worst part about it is when they do have that draft position where they could maybe just maybe luck out and pick up one of those types of players, they take reach picks or draft for need, a need that player has no hope of filling at the NHL for several years. Or they took goalies.
Hertl, the guy that just smoked us? 17th overall pick.

I think its time we put to rest the inflated prowess of Gordie Clark and company.

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10-10-2013, 01:39 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hertl, the guy that just smoked us? 17th overall pick.

I think its time we put to rest the inflated prowess of Gordie Clark and company.
But that is just one guy who was a later 1st round pick, he's not winning them a championship on his own. If they win it will be because they've overwhelmingly made more correct moves than incorrect ones over the span of several year.

Top 10 picks since Sather has been GM of Rangers
2003 #6 Michalek used in part to get Thornton
2005 #8 Setoguchi used in part to get Burns
2007 #9 Couture

Somehow Montoya and McIlrath don't quite match up.

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10-10-2013, 01:39 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hertl, the guy that just smoked us? 17th overall pick.

I think its time we put to rest the inflated prowess of Gordie Clark and company.
You point is valid. But it is a lot easier to assimilate into a top 6 that boasts JT, Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, etc than it is the Rangers' top 6 which basically only has Nash and Stepan near that level. Similar to how Saad had an easier ride fitting in with the Hawks last year. Get 3-4 legitimately top pieces and gets a lot easier to slot in other parts due to matchups and depth alone.

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10-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
You point is valid. But it is a lot easier to assimilate into a top 6 that boasts JT, Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, etc than it is the Rangers' top 6 which basically only has Nash and Stepan near that level. Similar to how Saad had an easier ride fitting in with the Hawks last year. Get 3-4 legitimately top pieces and gets a lot easier to slot in other parts due to matchups and depth alone.
You're absolutely right. No better time to get started than now, I guess.

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10-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #138
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Let's see how Hertl does with a real sample size before we start talking about how we don't get guys like him. We should know as well as anybody that a hot start doesn't lead to a hot career.

This place is unbearable when things get rough at all. People crap on the team about lacking mental fortitude while they're actually out there on the ice, meanwhile most posters can't keep their sanity together after they watch a tough loss.

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10-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
It's a big circle

How did those teams get most of those players?

They drafted them in the first part of the first round.

Where do the Rangers draft and why?

They draft later in the first if at all because they artificially improve their place in the standings with UFAs and they give away picks for rentals or in other trades.

Why don't the Rangers have those players?

The worst part about it is when they do have that draft position where they could maybe just maybe luck out and pick up one of those types of players, they take reach picks or draft for need, a need that player has no hope of filling at the NHL for several years. Or they took goalies.
Exactly, time to end the cycle of mediocrity! Take your lumps and build the team back up the right way. This season is this groups last chance in my opinion. If this season ends up an epic failure I think they seriously need to consider making major changes starting with trades at the deadline and carrying over into free agency. Problem is, if Sather's still pulling the strings after this season it won't make any difference, you gotta cut the problem off at the head.

Like Rangerboy said, maybe this core has been together too long and are way too comfortable


Last edited by savebyrichter420: 10-10-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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10-10-2013, 01:43 PM
  #140
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He is not on a cliff. Most of us aren't. We aren't saying OMGZZZ SEAONZ OVAR!! We are concerned that this team has yet to play with any sort of emotion or fire. Playing with intensity and adapting to a new system are in no way correlated.
Maybe you aren't, but quite a few are.

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10-10-2013, 01:47 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
Exactly, time to end the cycle of mediocrity! Take your lumps and build the team back up the right way. This season is this groups last chance in my opinion. If this season ends up an epic failure I think they seriously need to consider making major changes starting with trades at the deadline and carrying over into free agency. Problem is, if Sather's still pulling the strings after this season it won't make any difference, you gotta cut the problem off at the head.

Like Rangerboy said, maybe this core has been together too long and are way to comfortable



I find this so hilarious. People whine about not having a homegrown core.

Now that we have one, it's they've been together to long, we need players who weren't raised together!

Hilarious.

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10-10-2013, 01:53 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
Like Rangerboy said, maybe this core has been together too long and are way to comfortable
Thats pretty wild.

I think its has much more to do with the core just simply not being as good as many fans and management think they are.

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10-10-2013, 01:58 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
[/U][/B]


I find this so hilarious. People whine about not having a homegrown core.

Now that we have one, it's they've been together to long, we need players who weren't raised together!

Hilarious.
What's so hilarious? It's not like we haven't been patient with this group. There are talented and hungry players in this organization waiting for an opportunity just like they once were. Sometimes you need to shake things up, they aren't getting any younger and it's best to cut bait before you start getting diminishing returns on your investments.

I'm not saying trade everyone but maybe the leadership core of this team needs adjusting, I appreciate every player that wears our jersey, especially those that are homegrown but homegrown doesn't equal infallible and immune to criticism!

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10-10-2013, 02:00 PM
  #144
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If the core isn't working then you need to get rid of them. Let's stop beating around the bush. Let's stop half assing it then. If this group can't get it figured out, then it's probably time to go nuclear. People don't like to hear that.

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10-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
[/U][/B]


I find this so hilarious. People whine about not having a homegrown core.

Now that we have one, it's they've been together to long, we need players who weren't raised together!

Hilarious.

Yeah I disagree about moving core player unless it is of course as part of a a trade to get a new core player from the draft or young prospect that can come up with the team, but like many say which I can not confirm, that is not possible for the Rangers for some reason or another.

Do they really need Pyatt out there? Couldn't they maybe be assimilating a younger player to become part of the core with his ice time? Asham couldn't be replaced by maybe someone a little hungrier like Haley?

They really could not have gone without Halpern last year? They had to pick up Clowe?

Two years ago they could not have done much as they were playing pretty well, i would have let them be as well.

Three years ago they could not have moved Prospal for a 2nd or 3rd?

Four years ago they needed to sign Kotalik and Brashear?

I mean it's a lot of little and some big things they do wrong every year that add up over time. Parenteau, Lisin, Zherdev, Olli Jokinen, Rupp, Scott, Umberger, Tyutin, etc

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10-10-2013, 02:06 PM
  #146
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Thats pretty wild.

I think its has much more to do with the core just simply not being as good as many fans and management think they are.
And maybe that's true, I would probably agree but then why is everyone against moving any of them? If they aren't good enough then find players that are. The goal is to build a contender and cup winner not a team of homegrown players that everyone loves for the sentimental factor not because of their skill level. You need Callahans on your team but you don't need a team full of them, you need speed and skill too!

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10-10-2013, 02:07 PM
  #147
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our recent draft history has been weak.

gordie hasnt produced much with his fixation on drafting na/canadian marginal talents out of juniors and reaching for college/high school kids.

even our euros we draft seem to fit that same marginally talented/hands of stone mold.

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10-10-2013, 02:09 PM
  #148
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Guys, we already sold the core and abandoned the homegrown concept when we got Nash, and even more so when Torts was fired.

Nash produced huge last season, which is great, but certain roles were never filled.

It's on the remainder of the core to guide this team back to where it needs to be. I'm not entirely sure it's possible. Player turnover can absolutely kill teams.

But great job, Slats.

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10-10-2013, 02:09 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hertl, the guy that just smoked us? 17th overall pick.

I think its time we put to rest the inflated prowess of Gordie Clark and company.
Kreider was a 19th overall pick and basically had as much talk about him.

Hertl looks very promising, but it's been 3 games.

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10-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
our recent draft history has been weak.

gordie hasnt produced much with his fixation on drafting na/canadian marginal talents out of juniors and reaching for college/high school kids.

even our euros we draft seem to fit that same marginally talented/hands of stone mold.
When you play it safe that's what you get, safe players!

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