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Game #5|Fri., Oct. 11 2013|Coyotes at Flyers |7:00 p.m. ET

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Old
10-10-2013, 12:27 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
It's pretty undeniable that Luke Schenn should be getting more minutes then him. It's beyond me why they're giving him so much playing time but let's not pretend like we're all just ignoring the bad play of everyone else and picking on Meszaros. Everybody has acknowledged almost everyone is playing badly. The difference with Meszaros is that he's consistently bad yet gets major ice-time over guys that deserve it more.
A key reason why Mez is getting the ice time is because of the power play. I'm not saying Mez should be getting top billing by any means, I just can't stand people acting like the coaches are buffoons that can't properly evaluate a situation. Mez is playing as well as the rest of the defense for the most part. Sure there are times when he is playing worse, but that goes for the rest of the defense as well.

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You're acting like coaches can't make mistakes in regards to lineup decisions nor ice-time. If that were true they wouldn't be human nor would Jay Rosehill exist in this lineup.
They certainly can, I just don't think Mez is a mistake. I think singling him out over the rest of the defense is the mistake. If Mez isn't getting those minutes, who is? Someone else who is playing like crap? Six of one half dozen of the other.

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10-10-2013, 12:32 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
It really isn't. Mez is the HF Boards whipping boy, but the coaching staff thinks differently of him. I know it is hard to believe, because most of the people posting on here are watching Mez on an ISO Cam the entire time he is on the ice and critiquing him with a trained and unbiased eye, but it appears the coaching staff thinks he is playing well enough to get those minutes. Otherwise, you know, he wouldn't be getting those minutes. Unless you are going to tell me that they know he isn't playing well and they know there are better options...but they still play him because they are stupid or because they hate Gus or something like that.
I'm usually in agreement with you on a lot of things. But for the most part this short season, Mez has been bad. Fumbles the puck when it's on his stick, loses positioning in the defensive zone, gets way out of position going for a check, and he makes poor passes, especially on the powerplay.

Now, I will say the rest of the defense has been pretty bad as well, so to call out Mez for his poor play is a little over the top.

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Old
10-10-2013, 12:36 PM
  #53
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
A key reason why Mez is getting the ice time is because of the power play. I'm not saying Mez should be getting top billing by any means, I just can't stand people acting like the coaches are buffoons that can't properly evaluate a situation. Mez is playing as well as the rest of the defense for the most part. Sure there are times when he is playing worse, but that goes for the rest of the defense as well.



They certainly can, I just don't think Mez is a mistake. I think singling him out over the rest of the defense is the mistake. If Mez isn't getting those minutes, who is? Someone else who is playing like crap? Six of one half dozen of the other.
Meszaros is detrimental at ES, isn't used on the PK, and is really limited to blasting shots on the point on the PP and that's really only because our offensive arsenal is pretty pathetic on the blue-line. That's about the extent of Meszaros.

Schenn is a hitting machine who plays a better defensive game then pretty much any other player on our team, Grossmann is similar to Schenn in that respect except he's a shot blocker instead of hitter for the most part. They both play the PK and do it well. Timonen is our most talented and well-balanced D and he's probably the most consistent one as well as probably one of two guys on our blue-line capable of getting 40 points. Streit is almost at the point to being a PP specialist but even then he's more talented, with a better pedigree and history, as well as a far better puck mover and more accurate with his shot then Meszaros.

Meszaros, by far, brings the least out of our current D group and all while being our third highest paid D. I don't imagine our coaching being oblivious but they're acting like it with Meszaros.

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Old
10-10-2013, 12:38 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
I'm usually in agreement with you on a lot of things. But for the most part this short season, Mez has been bad. Fumbles the puck when it's on his stick, loses positioning in the defensive zone, gets way out of position going for a check, and he makes poor passes, especially on the powerplay.

Now, I will say the rest of the defense has been pretty bad as well, so to call out Mez for his poor play is a little over the top.
Like I said, he brings the least out of all our D on the roster at the third highest cap hit of them all. For those reasons as well as the fact that despite all that he gets top ice-time he deserves to be the whipping boy of the D.

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10-10-2013, 12:44 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Meszaros is detrimental at ES, isn't used on the PK, and is really limited to blasting shots on the point on the PP and that's really only because our offensive arsenal is pretty pathetic on the blue-line. That's about the extent of Meszaros.
I think Mez was playing PK at least in the last game, wasn't he? I don't think he is any more "detrimental" at ES than any one else on the team. Don't mistake that for me saying he is a Norris Trophy Candidate. I'm just saying that thus far, he has played on the same level as the rest of the team.

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Schenn is a hitting machine who plays a better defensive game then pretty much any other player on our team, Grossmann is similar to Schenn in that respect except he's a shot blocker instead of hitter for the most part. They both play the PK and do it well. Timonen is our most talented and well-balanced D and he's probably the most consistent one as well as probably one of two guys on our blue-line capable of getting 40 points. Streit is almost at the point to being a PP specialist but even then he's more talented, with a better pedigree and history, as well as a far better puck mover and more accurate with his shot then Meszaros.
This all may well be the case, but again, this season they are all playing on the same level. And I'm not saying that Mez should be getting more ice time than anyone else, only that thus far in the season, no one has outshined anyone to deserve any more or less ice time. That may very well change as the season moves on. If it does, I have no problem with cutting his ice time or sending him to the pressbox.

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Meszaros, by far, brings the least out of our current D group and all while being our third highest paid D. I don't imagine our coaching being oblivious but they're acting like it with Meszaros.
That may be the case, I'm not saying he is the best player out there on paper or on the ice. But when everyone is playing at the same level, his getting two more minutes on the PP (where Mez can be of use) is not the coaching staff being oblivious. Thinking otherwise is the fan base complaining just to complain.

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Old
10-10-2013, 12:54 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think Mez was playing PK at least in the last game, wasn't he? I don't think he is any more "detrimental" at ES than any one else on the team. Don't mistake that for me saying he is a Norris Trophy Candidate. I'm just saying that thus far, he has played on the same level as the rest of the team.



This all may well be the case, but again, this season they are all playing on the same level. And I'm not saying that Mez should be getting more ice time than anyone else, only that thus far in the season, no one has outshined anyone to deserve any more or less ice time. That may very well change as the season moves on. If it does, I have no problem with cutting his ice time or sending him to the pressbox.



That may be the case, I'm not saying he is the best player out there on paper or on the ice. But when everyone is playing at the same level, his getting two more minutes on the PP (where Mez can be of use) is not the coaching staff being oblivious. Thinking otherwise is the fan base complaining just to complain.
Except they haven't all been on the same level.

Last game Meszaros logged 2:07 of SH TOI. Timonen, Giroux, Talbot, Read, Schenn, Hall, Couturier, Grossmann, and Coburn all logged more then him and most of them considerably more. That's more then two PK units worth of players. Coach might put him out when we're near the end of a penalty kill or when the other killers are tired out but he's far from the first choice and even if he were he's far from our most suited guy for it.

Grossmann and Schenn have still been responsible defensively and doing their hitting/shot blocking schtick. Timonen is still a better PK player, better all-around player, and with far more upside and stability then Meszaros. Streit, like I said, though he's limited to PP effectiveness he's far better then any of our other D at it. Coburn brings an all-around ability and is one of our best skaters.

Meszaros doesn't stand out in any positive way at all. All of our other D bring some kind of positive to the back-end and almost all of them have higher upside. Then there's the cap hit thing.

Even if you don't believe that there's no way he's outperforming anyone and most of our other guys have higher upside then him. So in no way can anyone justify him getting consistently top ice-time. Hell, last game he had more ice-time then anyone else on the team.

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Old
10-10-2013, 12:55 PM
  #57
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Holy ****... this stuff should probably be its own thread...

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Old
10-10-2013, 12:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by galvo View Post
You old.
May you be spanked by Berube himself and may you proceed to get lost

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:02 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Meszaros is detrimental at ES, isn't used on the PK, and is really limited to blasting shots on the point on the PP and that's really only because our offensive arsenal is pretty pathetic on the blue-line.
I would much rather have Read play one of the points on the 2nd PP unit. My units would look like this:

Giroux-Hartnell-Lecavalier
Streit-Voracek

BSchenn-Simmonds-Couturier
Kimmo-Read

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10-10-2013, 01:05 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I would much rather have Read play one of the points on the 2nd PP unit. My units would look like this:

Giroux-Hartnell-Lecavalier
Streit-Voracek

BSchenn-Simmonds-Couturier
Kimmo-Read
Yeah, at this point I'm not even sure if I want Kimmo on the PP. I wouldn't be opposed to forwards on the blue-line at all at this point. That's where our talent lies. Even if they're not playing like it.

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:19 PM
  #61
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Random OT question.

Who would flyers fans distinguish as their number 1 right now? Haven't been able to see as much of Mason as i'd like but has he been good? (i.e better then Columbus post calder) or is Emery leading the way at this point

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10-10-2013, 01:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
Random OT question.

Who would flyers fans distinguish as their number 1 right now? Haven't been able to see as much of Mason as i'd like but has he been good? (i.e better then Columbus post calder) or is Emery leading the way at this point
Mason for right now. But #1 is technically pushing it. It might be more like B+ vs B-. Or a 8/10 vs a 7/10. Not too far apart, it's more of a grey area.

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10-10-2013, 01:27 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
Random OT question.

Who would flyers fans distinguish as their number 1 right now? Haven't been able to see as much of Mason as i'd like but has he been good? (i.e better then Columbus post calder) or is Emery leading the way at this point
I'd consider him our #1 right now. Has played extremely well in the games he has played in so far. Carried us the last game also

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:32 PM
  #64
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they better watch the Coyotes vs Wings tonight since we're playing against them this weekend

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10-10-2013, 01:35 PM
  #65
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Mason for right now. But #1 is technically pushing it. It might be more like B+ vs B-. Or a 8/10 vs a 7/10. Not too far apart, it's more of a grey area.
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I'd consider him our #1 right now. Has played extremely well in the games he has played in so far. Carried us the last game also
Thanks guys, ill admit (being a pens fan and all) im not supposed to "technically" be civil towards you, but im rooting for Mason to have a bounce back year and Giroux is to high of a talent to be wasting seasons. All you guys are missing is a few D pieces and youll be a set team again. Good luck this year fellas!

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10-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #66
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they better watch the Coyotes vs Wings tonight since we're playing against them this weekend
The upcoming schedule isn't too favorable for the Flyers. If I remember correctly, they play PHX, DET, VAN, PIT, NYR. Though they do have a week between the Penguin and Ranger games.

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10-10-2013, 01:48 PM
  #67
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Mason is definitely number one. It's not cemented yet but he definitely has the edge. Has our only win this season and has put up stellar play and numbers since coming here.

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10-10-2013, 03:48 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Talbot is far better than Rosehill defensively and in keeping up with the play and I don't really think Rinaldo needs protection. In fact, I don't really see why we need Rosehill out there unless the other team is full of heavyweight goons looking to start trouble i.e. Toronto.
yeah if neil in ottawa need enforcer rinaldo and the flyers need enforcer

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10-10-2013, 04:00 PM
  #69
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I never said anything about Talbot being not as good as Rosehill? Talbot should be a fourth line player though that can play short handed and jump on the third line in emergency roles. I do see Rosehill as a need though in the regular season. You don't want another game like the Pittsburgh one where Neal went after both Couts and Giroux. You don't have to be a goon to be giving cheap shots out there. I am not saying it wouldn't have happened with Rosehill out there, I am just saying there is a smaller chance.
yeah that years if shelley was here asham never made his cheapshots on schenn
the score was 5-3 only 1 minute lavi go with briere-schenn-simmonds and the pens with asham and engelland if he play the line with rinaldo -shelley nothing happen

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10-10-2013, 04:06 PM
  #70
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yeah that years if shelley was here asham never made his cheapshots on schenn
the score was 5-3 only 1 minute lavi go with briere-schenn-simmonds and the pens with asham and engelland if he play the line with rinaldo -shelley nothing happen
Who gives a ****, Shelley was a useless hockey player. The idea of the game is to score goals and play defense, not try to beat up people, which Shelley wasn't even good at.

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10-10-2013, 04:13 PM
  #71
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Who gives a ****, Shelley was a useless hockey player. The idea of the game is to score goals and play defense, not try to beat up people, which Shelley wasn't even good at.
lol shelley was not the best player but that years i take shelley over wellwood, zolnierczyk and sestito maybe

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10-10-2013, 04:15 PM
  #72
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lol shelley was not the best player but that years i take shelley over wellwood, zolnierczyk and sestito maybe
You're insane, all three of those players are significantly better at hockey than Shelley. Sestito even filled Shelley's role while being a decent 4th liner.

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10-10-2013, 04:20 PM
  #73
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Enforcers do not prevent cheap shots, especially enforcers like Shelley who was feared by nobody.

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10-10-2013, 04:31 PM
  #74
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Enforcers do not prevent cheap shots, especially enforcers like Shelley who was feared by nobody.
I don't mind having enforcers assuming they can actually play the game of hockey. I would make no fuss if we had a guy like Shawn Thornton or Jared Boll, both of them do like to fight a lot but they can also skate & get on the forecheck while adding like somewhere in the 5-10 goal range a year.

Shelley or Rosehill doesn't fit that bill. Hell I didn't even mind when a Sestito was a regular in the lineup.

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10-10-2013, 04:36 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I don't mind having enforcers assuming they can actually play the game of hockey. I would make no fuss if we had a guy like Shawn Thornton or Jared Boll, both of them do like to fight a lot but they can also skate & get on the forecheck while adding like somewhere in the 5-10 goal range a year.

Shelley or Rosehill doesn't fit that bill. Hell I didn't even mind when a Sestito was a regular in the lineup.
Sestito was and is terrible. He could skate but that's about it. For a guy his size who likes to pick fights, he couldn't fight for ****.

I would put Sestito and Rosehill on the same level.

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