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Rangers season at crossroads--already

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:12 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
What's so hilarious? It's not like we haven't been patient with this group. There are talented and hungry players in this organization waiting for an opportunity just like they once were. Sometimes you need to shake things up, they aren't getting any younger and it's best to cut bait before you start getting diminishing returns on your investments.

I'm not saying trade everyone but maybe the leadership core of this team needs adjusting, I appreciate every player that wears our jersey, especially those that are homegrown but homegrown doesn't equal infallible and immune to criticism!
Maybe because moving core players is what basically put us in this predicament in the first place.

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10-10-2013, 01:15 PM
  #152
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Kreider was a 19th overall pick and basically had as much talk about him.

Hertl looks very promising, but it's been 3 games.
Great point. Kreider looked like a sure fire 40 goal scorer after 5 games in that playoff run. We know how that has translated since.

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10-10-2013, 01:18 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Maybe you aren't, but quite a few are.
I dunno I don't think they are. There is not this huge crowd that is going to collectively jump off a cliff. There are a few of us who are not happy with what we have seen from an effort stand point.

The team isn't at a crossroads. I actually think they do have the talent to compete and be up there. Our defense is one of the top 5 in the league. Our goaltender is the best in the league. Our offense... meh. But even with a mediocre offense we have superior tools on the back end to help off set that.

What is so frustrating is when the team doesn't even try to compete.

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10-10-2013, 01:19 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Maybe because moving core players is what basically put us in this predicament in the first place.
Sorry, but I don't believe all the misfortunes of this franchise start and end with Dubinsky and Anisimov! It goes much deeper than that, by your logic we should never trade a core player ever? Besides, if we already started dismantling it might as well finish the job but that's not how the Rangers do things, just keep putting lipstick on a pig and never really address the issue and build a team the right way!

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10-10-2013, 01:21 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
Sorry, but I don't believe all the misfortunes of this franchise start and end with Dubinsky and Anisimov! It goes much deeper than that, by your logic we should never trade a core player ever? Besides, if we already started dismantling it might as well finish the job but that's not how the Rangers do things, just keep putting lipstick on a pig and never really address the issue and build a team the right way!
Stop putting words in my mouth.

And i wasn't saying that Anisimov and Dubinsky were the major problem.

Some of you are impossible to even discuss things with.

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10-10-2013, 01:26 PM
  #156
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Alot of you always mention passion, fire, heart etc.

I believe the fact of the matter is teams don't play that way 82 games a season. I think some of you guys expect the team to play with the amount of intensity that they would in a playoff game, every night of an 82 game season.

It just doesn't happen. For any team.

But the last maybe 10 games or so last season, when the team was fighting for their lives every game.. we saw it then.

You're not gunna see it every game. Especially in October and November of a long season. Thats sports.

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10-10-2013, 01:26 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
I dunno I don't think they are. There is not this huge crowd that is going to collectively jump off a cliff. There are a few of us who are not happy with what we have seen from an effort stand point.

The team isn't at a crossroads. I actually think they do have the talent to compete and be up there. Our defense is one of the top 5 in the league. Our goaltender is the best in the league. Our offense... meh. But even with a mediocre offense we have superior tools on the back end to help off set that.

What is so frustrating is when the team doesn't even try to compete.
Agreed. I think it's mostly in the GDT's that things get unbearable. But i see it here and there in regular forums about dumping Henrik, trading anything of value, etc, because this is a lost season.

I understand the frustration, but i can't get behind insanity.

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10-10-2013, 01:29 PM
  #158
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Not sure if comfortable is the right term, but when some of the players were interviewed in the offseason, they emphasized about how they were looking forward to having fun this year and were excited to playing in a more offensive system. They didn't say much about winning or preparing to do what it takes to win.

I get that they are happy to work with a coach who isn't as tough on them as Torts was... but winning games should be the number 1 priority over having fun. I just hope that they haven't lost sight of what the ultimate goal is here. They sure didn't look like they were having fun while playing "pond hockey" the other night, to quote Brad Richards.

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10-10-2013, 01:31 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
Great point. Kreider looked like a sure fire 40 goal scorer after 5 games in that playoff run. We know how that has translated since.
I wouldn't go that far. He had 5 goals and 7 points in 18 games. He just played well against the Devils when most of our team wasn't playing too great. Him being fresh and everyone else tired made him stand out even more.

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10-10-2013, 01:35 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Stop putting words in my mouth.

And i wasn't saying that Anisimov and Dubinsky were the major problem.

Some of you are impossible to even discuss things with.
I thought we were having a discussion? All I did was raise a question, I didn't make any definitive statements about the core of the team. Maybe they are skilled enough and have what it takes but then again maybe they don't! Sorry but what words did I put in your mouth? You said this all started with trading our core and the only core we traded were Dubi and Arty. Trading core guys isn't the issue, the skill level of this team is. Sometimes homegrown players are just that and nothing more, if they aren't getting it done or aren't the right players then you move them.

That being said, if this team was built correctly through the draft/trades/free agency and if we let the bottom fall out and not make choices that keep us stuck in mediocrity we wouldn't have to trade for skill and could keep more of the gritty homegrown players. When your whole core basically consists of the same type of player you need to move some of them for what you don't have, offensive ability!


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10-10-2013, 01:49 PM
  #161
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I always laugh when I hear build a team the right way. There is no one right way to build a team. If there was then every team would be doing it. Teams like the Oilers have had great draft position after great draft position. You have to build a team through the draft, trades, and FA. There is no 1 way to do it. Even then it takes some luck and good fortune. Look at the champions. Was LA built the same way as Pitt? Was Chicago built the same way as NJ?

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10-10-2013, 01:53 PM
  #162
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If this is posted already, then I'm sorry for wasting Your time..

Found at another messageboard

Quote:
In the NY Post, Larry Brooks looks at the Rangers who are struggling and the work ethic that seems to have vanished through the start of the season.

Brooks writes that:
-Girardi and Del Zotto have been “miserable” -Girardi: On ice for 48 total shots for and 97 total shots against. On ice for two goals for and seven goals against
-Del Zotto: On ice for 67 total shots for and 68 total shots against, but on ice for 1 goal for and 5 goals against

-McDonagh was “almost unbelievably bad in SJ” -On ice for eight shots for and 29 shots against. On ice for four goals against in SJ

-John Moore is showing why the Blue Jackets were willing to trade him -On ice for 47 shots for and 44 shots against and 1 goal for and 3 goals against

-The second line of Brassard, Zuccarello and Pouliot are “too cute” -All three are the only forwards who have been on the ice for more shots for than shots against.
-The three have combined for one point, a Brassard assist, and 9 shots (Pouliot 4, Zuccarello 3 and Brassard 2)

-Dominic Moore has been “dreadful” at times and Derek Stepan doesn’t appear ready.” -On ice for 25 shots for and 50 shots against along with 1 goal for and 6 goals against.


Brooks also writes that it’s not unfair to see that the Rangers lack the size and speed to compete for the Stanley Cup, but those two things aren’t an excuse for a work ethic that has been lacking.

Ryan Callahan told John Giannone after the game on Tuesday that the effort has to be there and that all the talk of x’s and o’s is for nothing if the effort isn’t there.

The work ethic established under John Tortorella is the number one thing that the players talked about keeping as they transitioned from coach to coach.

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10-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #163
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Let's turn it around tonight and all will be forgotten. Maybe we just were prepared physically and mentally to play back to back games on the west coast...

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10-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
If this is posted already, then I'm sorry for wasting Your time..

Found at another messageboard
thanks for posting that...

That's just brooks being much too happy with cynicism...

it's game 3 of a 9 game road trip, in october, with a new coach, new system, and some new players...

And everyoen thought this would be a 8-1 road trip start. What are we, the Pens? Oh wait, they got swept in 4 games by the B's...

so there, be patient, y'all.

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10-10-2013, 02:05 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
I thought we were having a discussion? All I did was raise a question, I didn't make any definitive statements about the core of the team. Maybe they are skilled enough and have what it takes but then again maybe they don't! Sorry but what words did I put in your mouth? You said this all started with trading our core and the only core we traded were Dubi and Arty. Trading core guys isn't the issue, the skill level of this team is. Sometimes homegrown players are just that and nothing more, if they aren't getting it done or aren't the right players then you move them.

That being said, if this team was built correctly through the draft/trades/free agency and if we let the bottom fall out and not make choices that keep us stuck in mediocrity we wouldn't have to trade for skill and could keep more of the gritty homegrown players. When your whole core basically consists of the same type of player you need to move some of them for what you don't have, offensive ability!
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't believe all the misfortunes of this franchise start and end with Dubinsky and Anisimov!
I'm not going to have a discussion for someone that expresses opinions on my behalf that i never made.

I was actually one of the few people in the recent thread supporting the Nash trade.

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10-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
If this is posted already, then I'm sorry for wasting Your time..

Found at another messageboard
Three games in and one game that was an outlier, of course players stats are going to look bad.

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10-10-2013, 02:12 PM
  #167
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we can always trade for Ryan O'Reilly at the trade deadline :p

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10-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
I always laugh when I hear build a team the right way. There is no one right way to build a team. If there was then every team would be doing it. Teams like the Oilers have had great draft position after great draft position. You have to build a team through the draft, trades, and FA. There is no 1 way to do it. Even then it takes some luck and good fortune. Look at the champions. Was LA built the same way as Pitt? Was Chicago built the same way as NJ?
Actually LA , Pitt and Chi all were, mostly by allowing the team to suck long enough to draft great players that impact the game with skill and speed not just shot blocking and effort! Like I said it takes a combination of the right choices in the draft and through trades and free agency.

You say there is no right way? Well there is certainly a wrong way and that's the way we've been doing it, we should have taken our lumps like LA, Pitt, Chi, even Boston and drafted properly, made smart UFA signings and trades etc. Instead here we are mediocre and in the middle of the pack because we do just enough to stay afloat!

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10-10-2013, 02:15 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
I always laugh when I hear build a team the right way. There is no one right way to build a team. If there was then every team would be doing it. Teams like the Oilers have had great draft position after great draft position. You have to build a team through the draft, trades, and FA. There is no 1 way to do it. Even then it takes some luck and good fortune. Look at the champions. Was LA built the same way as Pitt? Was Chicago built the same way as NJ?
Sort of, they all made way more good moves than bad ones. Whether through the draft, trades, signings, they all took their resources at hand and made championship teams.

However it's difficult to find too many championship teams that did not have at least two or three really good drafts in the years prior leading up to their cup year(s) Not too many of them spent their cap money on players who ended up not performing to at least an adequate level. Not too many won by renting or signing UFAs as their top end players.

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10-10-2013, 02:15 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Stop putting words in my mouth.

And i wasn't saying that Anisimov and Dubinsky were the major problem.

Some of you are impossible to even discuss things with.
You were suggesting that moving pieces of the core was a major problem, and went on to suggest Dubinsky and Anisimov were parts of it, which is a dubious assertation at best

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10-10-2013, 02:17 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
I'm not going to have a discussion for someone that expresses opinions on my behalf that i never made.

I was actually one of the few people in the recent thread supporting the Nash trade.
don't want to argue, but this is your words.

Maybe because moving core players is what basically put us in this predicament in the first place.

What core players were moved outside of Dubi and AA?

It's easy to take that statement and come to the conclusion that savebyrichter420 came to.

no one else put those words in your mouth, you did.

So, the question remain, what core players were moved recently (aside from Dubi and AA) that put us in this prediciment?

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10-10-2013, 02:18 PM
  #172
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I tweeted LB back last night, saying while I don't totally disagree with his player assessments, it's way to early for this crossroads stuff. To be fair, this is the same group that could have easily wiped out the Kings Monday night if not for Quick playing well, goofy goal or not. That could have been 5 or 6 to 1 Rangers.

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10-10-2013, 02:19 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
I'm not going to have a discussion for someone that expresses opinions on my behalf that i never made.

I was actually one of the few people in the recent thread supporting the Nash trade.
Okay man, whatever. If I so grossly misunderstood your point of view please feel free to explain it to me! That's what a discussion is. I wasn't trying to be rude, you said something and I responded along with asking you a question. If I wasn't interested in your opinion why would I ask for it?

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10-10-2013, 02:20 PM
  #174
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I disagree with the premise of the article.

The Rangers are not at a crossroads now. The Rangers were at a crossroads last season at the deadline with a team ostensibly built for offense being asked to play defense under a coach that would not change a system to fit the players on the roster all while having significant choices to make about players and the looming cap problem. The Rangers made a change that, with the benefit of hindsight, probably was unwise, but that's a different story.

The Rangers will be at a crossroads if Lundqvist heads into free agency or, even worse, leaves. The Rangers cannot possibly be at a crossroads when (1) the roster for 13/14 is, more or less, sorted with Hagelin (perhaps the player best suited for AV's system) yet to play and (2) the plan going into the season was hoping for exceptional years from Lundqvist, Nash and Richards and hoping for a lot of luck elsewhere. You can't get a lot of luck after 4 games.

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10-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #175
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don't want to argue, but this is your words.

Maybe because moving core players is what basically put us in this predicament in the first place.

What core players were moved outside of Dubi and AA?

It's easy to take that statement and come to the conclusion that savebyrichter420 came to.

no one else put those words in your mouth, you did.

So, the question remain, what core players were moved recently (aside from Dubi and AA) that put us in this prediciment?
Thanks!

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