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Where's the Defense!- Habs lose 3-2

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:52 PM
  #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
Which is surprising considering his wing span.
Yes but I should also mention that when he does get beat sometimes he's able to recuperate with his long stick and poke just enough to disrupt the play.

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10-10-2013, 01:53 PM
  #552
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Results-wise, I'm not too surprised Calgary put up 3. They've been hot to start the season offensively but choked away leads. We just let them hang on for this game.

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10-10-2013, 01:54 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
This team has major holes in it, with adding Emelin back in the line up I still think the team lacks these additions in order to compete.

#2D
#4C
#4D
#1RW

That's 4 spots in the line up where the players inserted and utilized are not up to par with a competing team. Look at the Blackhawks who won the cup last year and who they have in those positions. Brent Seabrook ,Marcus Kreuger, Nick Leddy and Marian Hossa. Compared to Josh Gorges, Ryan White, Raf Diaz and Brian Gionta.

The gap in those players makes a huge difference in a game.
Yeah but Eller is way better than Handzus.

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10-10-2013, 01:56 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
Well Jack Edwards did call Chara a ballerina one time after scoring a nice goal.
I though after Eller's HUGE hook that sent him flying...

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10-10-2013, 01:58 PM
  #555
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.

We have the worst d-corps in the east.

I've said it many times, all summer long. Everyone laughed at me.

Everyone said "blah blah 2nd in the east!!!"

I'm glad you guys are finally coming around. The defence on this team SUCKS and was very poorly put together.

Subban is great. Markov is decent. The rest of them SUCK and are 5-6's on a good team.

Guys like Boullion and Diaz would not be playing in the NHL on ANY OTHER TEAM. Gorges is a 5-6 and Tinordi, as a rookie, is a 5-6.

Bergevin really ****ed up royally by not doing something sooner. It was extremely obvious during the playoffs that we needed help on d.

The 2 biggest problems on this team are

1) poorly built defence
2) inability to finish

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Last edited by hototogisu: 10-10-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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10-10-2013, 01:59 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Yeah but Eller is way better than Handzus.
He's better than Desharnais though!

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10-10-2013, 02:00 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
lol

I'm sure Boston's D is undersized without Charra and Boychuck. Average size 6'1" 198lbs.
TSN's comment, FWIW. Glad it provided entertainment.

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How many big guys do you know that DON'T have mobility issues? Charra moves pretty well for his size but nobody will ever confuse him for a gazelle. Most guys over 225lbs can be beat wide in the NHL.
Pre-season reports indicated that the org. wanted Murray to shed weight as this would help his mobility. I'm not privy to any testing as to whether Chara, some other big-sized body or Murray for that matter are slower or faster and by how much.

As for the assertion that most guys over a certain weight can be beat wide in the NHL on account of weight, that's just one factor. Reach, hockey IQ/ proper positioning, hidden injuries or playing while not having completely overcome an injury, age, conditioning, mental and family issues at any given time, etc, can be contributing elements.

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10-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

We have the worst d-corps in the east.

I've said it many times, all summer long. Everyone laughed at me.

Everyone said "blah blah 2nd in the east!!!"

I'm glad you guys are finally coming around. The defence on this team SUCKS and was very poorly put together.

Subban is great. Markov is decent. The rest of them SUCK and are 5-6's on a good team.

Guys like Boullion and Diaz would not be playing in the NHL on ANY OTHER TEAM. Gorges is a 5-6 and Tinordi, as a rookie, is a 5-6.

Bergevin really ****ed up royally by not doing something sooner. It was extremely obvious during the playoffs that we needed help on d.

The 2 biggest problems on this team are

1) poorly built defence
2) inability to finish
The only way this defense can be successful is to put Markov and Subban together, play the living **** out of them and have Emelin carry the 2nd pairing. They'll need some sort of rookie to step up and play well with him, preferably Beaulieu and have the 3rd pair play limited minutes during safer times.

Markov-Subban
Emelin-Beaulieu
Tinordi-Gorges/Murray

Either way, it's a bad defense that needs to rely on offense which besides the Eller line does not have the ability to cycle the puck down low and keep it out of their end.

It's definitely not dire straights and can be fixed with some good strategy and health but right now the D is one of the worsts.


Last edited by hototogisu: 10-10-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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Old
10-10-2013, 02:03 PM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
According to last nights boxscore on NHL.com

Markov - 27:23 TOI - 3:31 SH TOI
Subban - 22:05 TOI - 0:00 SH TOI

Is Subban really considered that bad by the coaches on the penalty kill that he can't get any SH minutes over any dman on the Habs team?
I don't think this is how Therrien sees it.

Let say you play Subban on the PK and the other team gets a penalty after 1min. You get 4 on 4 or maybe on the PP where Subban is at his best, but you have to rest him. You miss an opportunity.

I'm not gonna pretend I know what Therrien thinks, but that makes some sense to me.

You have to coach thinking not only what happens right now, but also taking in consideration what might happen 30 seconds later.

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10-10-2013, 02:17 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by HTTP 400 Bad Request View Post
I don't think this is how Therrien sees it.

Let say you play Subban on the PK and the other team gets a penalty after 1min. You get 4 on 4 or maybe on the PP where Subban is at his best, but you have to rest him. You miss an opportunity.

I'm not gonna pretend I know what Therrien thinks, but that makes some sense to me.

You have to coach thinking not only what happens right now, but also taking in consideration what might happen 30 seconds later.
If Subban was getting 25+ min a night but little PK time then maybe you'd have a point. But the fact that he only had 22min is insane he needs to play more whether it's 5vs5, on the PP, or the PK it really doesn't matter. He can and should play more. Hoping for a PP to even things out when on the PK seems like a fools game to me. Subban is arguably our best PKer, and since the PK is not doing so well it makes a lot of sense to play him there.

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10-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
If Subban was getting 25+ min a night but little PK time then maybe you'd have a point. But the fact that he only had 22min is insane he needs to play more whether it's 5vs5, on the PP, or the PK it really doesn't matter. He can and should play more. Hoping for a PP to even things out when on the PK seems like a fools game to me. Subban is arguably our best PKer, and since the PK is not doing so well it makes a lot of sense to play him there.
He's been our best defensive Pker for three years now...

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10-10-2013, 02:27 PM
  #562
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Subban is the best D by a significant margin. Play him 28-30 minutes per game. All star D get used this way.

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10-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

We have the worst d-corps in the east.

I've said it many times, all summer long. Everyone laughed at me.

Everyone said "blah blah 2nd in the east!!!"

I'm glad you guys are finally coming around. The defence on this team SUCKS and was very poorly put together.

Subban is great. Markov is decent. The rest of them SUCK and are 5-6's on a good team.

Guys like Boullion and Diaz would not be playing in the NHL on ANY OTHER TEAM. Gorges is a 5-6 and Tinordi, as a rookie, is a 5-6.

Bergevin really ****ed up royally by not doing something sooner. It was extremely obvious during the playoffs that we needed help on d.

The 2 biggest problems on this team are

1) poorly built defence
2) inability to finish
Yes, you make some good points. Focusing on goaltending is a smoke screen.

I was a big fan of what Burke did in Toronto and his concept of "truculence". I was really hoping that MB would come in and purge all the softness down the lineup. It hasn't happened yet and hopefully he sees the light at some point. It's still early in his tenure.

Our D is so soft they can't move players in front of the net. That makes Price's job incredibly difficult because of deflections and not being able to see the puck well. Luongo mentioned recently he doesn't mind shot-blocking but you better block the shot otherwise the goalie can't see anything.

As for finishing 2nd, we all know that we were like a point or two from dropping several spots down. The other HUGE thing people are not talking about is that we played zero games against the West last year.

This year, we're playing like 40% of our games against the West and it's going to kill us because we can't cycle the puck down low effectively, something even a lousy team like the Flames does well.

Living out West, I tend to watch the Western Conference more and I can tell you that teams can only compete by playing a high-tempo, crash-and-bang-and-retrieve-the-puck style of game. Watch us next time we play the Blues and we'll be lucky to get 10 shots on goal because we don't have the horses to play that game.


Last edited by hototogisu: 10-10-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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10-10-2013, 02:33 PM
  #564
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on the topic of defence:

It's three games into the season and we haven't even seen a remotely complete D corps yet. I think with Emelin and Murray added our D this year will be very complete. Markov, Subban and Diaz as the puckmovers etc, Emelin, Murray Tinordi and Gorges with hits/blocks/general D.

Give it some time.

I am all for moving Bouillon and even Diaz if the return is right.

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10-10-2013, 02:36 PM
  #565
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It's hard to trade for or build D through UFA when we got so many young blueliners ready to step in in next year or two.. Kind of almost have to wait it out. We're also pretty unlucky on injury front.

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10-10-2013, 02:37 PM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
According to last nights boxscore on NHL.com

Markov - 27:23 TOI - 3:31 SH TOI
Subban - 22:05 TOI - 0:00 SH TOI

Is Subban really considered that bad by the coaches on the penalty kill that he can't get any SH minutes over any dman on the Habs team?
I dont care necessarily about the short handed time but why it couldnt play more even strength is beyond me.

Tho this is likely going to at some point get Markov injured. Markov at his age and injury concerns wont make it thru a season playing these minutes. He was already gassing last year down the stretch.

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10-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I dont care necessarily about the short handed time but why it couldnt play more even strength is beyond me.

Tho this is likely going to at some point get Markov injured. Markov at his age and injury concerns wont make it thru a season playing these minutes. He was already gassing last year down the stretch.
LOL. No wonder the team struggled.

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10-10-2013, 02:43 PM
  #568
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My boss wants us to trade Subban because of the penalty he took yesterday

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10-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I dont care necessarily about the short handed time but why it couldnt play more even strength is beyond me.

Tho this is likely going to at some point get Markov injured. Markov at his age and injury concerns wont make it thru a season playing these minutes. He was already gassing last year down the stretch.
The SH times are irrelevant in this case as I found out later considering Subban was in the box for 2 of the 3 Habs penalties. I agree with the rest of your post though. It's time to play Subban like the #1 dman he is and to limit Markov's minutes a little. There's no excuse for not having Subban log the most minutes on the Habs. Like someone pointed out above he's a #1 dman and #1 dmen usually play the most minutes on any given team.

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10-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
According to last nights boxscore on NHL.com

Markov - 27:23 TOI - 3:31 SH TOI
Subban - 22:05 TOI - 0:00 SH TOI

Is Subban really considered that bad by the coaches on the penalty kill that he can't get any SH minutes over any dman on the Habs team?
Probably has something to do with the fact that we were only on the PK three times and Subban was in the box twice.

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10-10-2013, 03:21 PM
  #571
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Ray Ferraro: "you could have put a blanket over Bourque and let him sleep".

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10-10-2013, 03:37 PM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

We have the worst d-corps in the east.

I've said it many times, all summer long. Everyone laughed at me.

Everyone said "blah blah 2nd in the east!!!"

I'm glad you guys are finally coming around. The defence on this team SUCKS and was very poorly put together.

Subban is great. Markov is decent. The rest of them SUCK and are 5-6's on a good team.

Guys like Boullion and Diaz would not be playing in the NHL on ANY OTHER TEAM. Gorges is a 5-6 and Tinordi, as a rookie, is a 5-6.

Bergevin really ****ed up royally by not doing something sooner. It was extremely obvious during the playoffs that we needed help on d.

The 2 biggest problems on this team are

1) poorly built defence
2) inability to finish
What you say is true but Bergevin didn't have many options in finding superior Dmen. Of course he shouldn't have re-signed Bouillon, who is as useless as the skin of an onion.

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10-10-2013, 04:00 PM
  #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Ray Ferraro: "you could have put a blanket over Bourque and let him sleep".
hate to say it but its true... soon as it was 2-0 i kept a close eye on bourque , whom i pull hard for, and it was embarassing to watch him out there (albeit expected tho)

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10-10-2013, 04:02 PM
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
What you say is true but Bergevin didn't have many options in finding superior Dmen. Of course he shouldn't have re-signed Bouillon, who is as useless as the skin of an onion.
dont know why you had to rank on the onions personally...

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10-10-2013, 04:03 PM
  #575
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My boss wants us to trade Subban because of the penalty he took yesterday
Record him saying it, bring it to his superior and boom, instant promotion.

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