HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

With the careless 5 year - $ 15 million contract given by Holland ...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-01-2006, 12:43 PM
  #51
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
A very big reason why Hamhuis got $2M and Kronwall got $3M...

The Wings don't have a Suter, Weber, and whoever else behind him that they can go to. Kronwall and his agent knew that they were pretty much it in the forseeable future for top 2-3 blueliners under the age of 30 and that gives them a lot of leverage considering Niklas was only 1 year removed from UFA. Kronwall is a lot more important to the Wings than any one of the young three are to the Predators.

I second Choker when I say this is one of the best arguments yet. I don't think it completely excuses him, to say the least, as it doesn't explain the sheer level of risk undertaken by Holland, but it lends credence to the higher price.

SmokeyClause is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2006, 12:43 PM
  #52
Heaton
#disapointment
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 16,967
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe T Choker View Post
You know what ... that's actually a good point, and one I totally overlooked ... where do you see Lebda or Quincy in the Wings' future? ... bottom pairing dmen? ... 2nd pairing dmen?
Lebda will be a serviceable 4th or 5th defensemen, Quincey I feel will be about the same. Jakub Kindl looks to have the makings of a solid #2 or #3 defensemen.

Heaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2006, 12:57 PM
  #53
norrisnick
Registered User
 
norrisnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,243
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Lebda will be a serviceable 4th or 5th defensemen, Quincey I feel will be about the same. Jakub Kindl looks to have the makings of a solid #2 or #3 defensemen.
That's pretty much how I see it as well. Lebda and Quincey would probably make good complementary 2nd pairing blueliners with a better player or real good 3rd pairing guys. Kindl has the talent to be an offensive top 4 guy, just needs to get a handle of mistakes and his decision making.

No true studs in the system. A lot of nice guys that should be NHLers, but no cornerstone. Kronwall is the closest and Holland is pining his hopes on him.

norrisnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 12:14 AM
  #54
Street Hawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,596
vCash: 500
Not a big impact...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
IMO the Phaneuf contract (whatever it ends up being) will have more of an effect. Besides, Kronwall, AT WORST is overpaid (on his cap hit) by 1m, AT WORST.

Now, as I've said that, I'm not stupid, I realize he makes more than Zetterberg right now, I realize he hasn't translated his great international play to the NHL, but the fact remains that he has shown his talent against the best players in the world. I'm not going to let 2 fluke injuries that were in no way caused because of him being brittle.

Detroit showed a commitment to our teams best defensemen. We're not in a position to let someone like Kronwall get away during the first years of him being a UFA. I'm fully confident that he'll live up to as close of whatever expectations have pinned on him.
Amazing that Pred fans are so concerned about Kronvall's salary. If you look at the NHL today, and how many players since the end of the lockout have a $6 million cap hit, a good chunk are dmen.

7 million dollar players are: Richards 7.8, Chara 7.5, Iginla 7, Lidstrom is in the 7 range

6 million dollar plus guys: Luongo, Khabby, Niedermayer, Thornton, Naslund, Demitra, Lecavalier, Elias, Pronger, Havlat, Jovanovski, Redden.

I leave out guys like Jagr, Sundin who had contracts prior to the lockout.

So, now Dman are paid equally as forwards are.

Now, factor in that the likes of Nash, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Staal, all signed new deals after their entry contracts after the lockout in the 4 and 5 million dollar range, then it's likely that the agents for Weber, Suter would ask for similar money for their clients.

So, while Kronvall's deal may hurt the Preds, Flames, Hawks, Sens in their comparables, the agents can and should be using the above guys as comparables as well.

Street Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 12:32 AM
  #55
NashisCash
Registered User
 
NashisCash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Peterboreough
Country: Canada
Posts: 654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
Amazing that Pred fans are so concerned about Kronvall's salary. If you look at the NHL today, and how many players since the end of the lockout have a $6 million cap hit, a good chunk are dmen.

7 million dollar players are: Richards 7.8, Chara 7.5, Iginla 7, Lidstrom is in the 7 range

6 million dollar plus guys: Luongo, Khabby, Niedermayer, Thornton, Naslund, Demitra, Lecavalier, Elias, Pronger, Havlat, Jovanovski, Redden.

I leave out guys like Jagr, Sundin who had contracts prior to the lockout.

So, now Dman are paid equally as forwards are.

Now, factor in that the likes of Nash, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Staal, all signed new deals after their entry contracts after the lockout in the 4 and 5 million dollar range, then it's likely that the agents for Weber, Suter would ask for similar money for their clients.

So, while Kronvall's deal may hurt the Preds, Flames, Hawks, Sens in their comparables, the agents can and should be using the above guys as comparables as well.
But Kronvall isn't even close to any of the players you named

NashisCash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 09:08 AM
  #56
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
So, while Kronvall's deal may hurt the Preds, Flames, Hawks, Sens in their comparables, the agents can and should be using the above guys as comparables as well.
So when Suter's contract expires (I think at the end of next season), his agent should go up to Poile and use Lidstrom's contract as a comparable?

No offense, but your post missed the mark so badly, it should be on another team's board. Every player you listed is a superstar. That's why they make the big bucks. That's not totally relevant to a guy like Weber or Suter, is it? As foolish as it would be for them to request Lidstrom money, would it make sense to go after Kovalchuk or Staal money either?

The issue with the Kronwall deal is that he's not shown anything near the level of play displayed by any one of those mentioned in your post. And frankly, Weber nor Suter will likely have displayed anywhere near that level of play either when their contracts come due. If either's agent uses anyone from that group as a comparable in a contract proposal, it'd better be on April 1st or negotiations will end right then and there.

Kronwall's salary is important because Weber and Suter will fancy themselves better than Kronwall is (and this is key) "right now" when the deal was signed. So when there deals are due, they are much, much more likely to use the Kronwall deal and benchmark that than to use Lidstrom or any of superstars that you mentioned.

SmokeyClause is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 10:29 AM
  #57
nine_inch_fang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,506
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to nine_inch_fang
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
So when Suter's contract expires (I think at the end of next season), his agent should go up to Poile and use Lidstrom's contract as a comparable?

No offense, but your post missed the mark so badly, it should be on another team's board. Every player you listed is a superstar. That's why they make the big bucks. That's not totally relevant to a guy like Weber or Suter, is it? As foolish as it would be for them to request Lidstrom money, would it make sense to go after Kovalchuk or Staal money either?

The issue with the Kronwall deal is that he's not shown anything near the level of play displayed by any one of those mentioned in your post. And frankly, Weber nor Suter will likely have displayed anywhere near that level of play either when their contracts come due. If either's agent uses anyone from that group as a comparable in a contract proposal, it'd better be on April 1st or negotiations will end right then and there.

Kronwall's salary is important because Weber and Suter will fancy themselves better than Kronwall is (and this is key) "right now" when the deal was signed. So when there deals are due, they are much, much more likely to use the Kronwall deal and benchmark that than to use Lidstrom or any of superstars that you mentioned.
And to add to that; Pred fans are worried that Kronwall will continue in his ineptitude and cost the Preds big money to re-sign our young d-men because they are better than Kronwall at the time their contracts are up.

nine_inch_fang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 10:46 AM
  #58
zetterberg40
Registered User
 
zetterberg40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,218
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to zetterberg40
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
Yeah, we will.

We keep hearing about how great Kronwall "will" be.

But one can't ignore how good Suter, Weber and Hamhuis already ARE.


But yeah, all that potential..that's something to feel good about, right?
hamhuis ill give you, the kid is golden... suter ive seen a handful of times, aint bad, but the 1 live game ive seen with weber along with a few on nhl centerice, i can say from my observation the kid is overrated by many, i dont see anything special in him as many probably on here dont see in kronwall... so just thought id throw me 2 cents around

btw: holland = idiot.... i definitely agree 100%

i like kronner but that not much, yet

zetterberg40 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 11:45 AM
  #59
Street Hawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,596
vCash: 500
My point was...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
So when Suter's contract expires (I think at the end of next season), his agent should go up to Poile and use Lidstrom's contract as a comparable?

No offense, but your post missed the mark so badly, it should be on another team's board. Every player you listed is a superstar. That's why they make the big bucks. That's not totally relevant to a guy like Weber or Suter, is it? As foolish as it would be for them to request Lidstrom money, would it make sense to go after Kovalchuk or Staal money either?

The issue with the Kronwall deal is that he's not shown anything near the level of play displayed by any one of those mentioned in your post. And frankly, Weber nor Suter will likely have displayed anywhere near that level of play either when their contracts come due. If either's agent uses anyone from that group as a comparable in a contract proposal, it'd better be on April 1st or negotiations will end right then and there.

Kronwall's salary is important because Weber and Suter will fancy themselves better than Kronwall is (and this is key) "right now" when the deal was signed. So when there deals are due, they are much, much more likely to use the Kronwall deal and benchmark that than to use Lidstrom or any of superstars that you mentioned.
I can see that I didn't word my previous post as clearly as I should have.

I gave the list of 6 million dollar plus players to show that GMs now pay Dmen as much as they do forwards. In the past Dmen generally made less than forwards. But, when you see that Chara, Lidstrom, Jovo, Niedermayer, Pronger, Redden are in the top 15 in cap number, then the agents for these young Dmen can use that fact to compare Suter, Weber, Phaneuf to the young forwards who just got out of their Entry Level Contract. I am definately not saying that Weber should ask for Lidstrom money. Just use the fact that dmen are now paid as well as forwards.

So, if Weber and Phaneuf make the "same impact" on their teams that guys like Staal, Nash, Kovalchuk, Heatley made to their respective clubs, (and all these guys are making about 4.5 million cap hit up to 5.5 or something), the agents will use these forwards's salaries as comparables as well. Both Weber and Phaneuf have another year to show that they can be top level shut down Dmen, as well as contribute on the PP. That type of impact on a team is going to be equal to the points that Nash, Kovalchuk, Staal, Heatley put up.

Street Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 01:11 PM
  #60
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
I can see that I didn't word my previous post as clearly as I should have.

I gave the list of 6 million dollar plus players to show that GMs now pay Dmen as much as they do forwards. In the past Dmen generally made less than forwards. But, when you see that Chara, Lidstrom, Jovo, Niedermayer, Pronger, Redden are in the top 15 in cap number, then the agents for these young Dmen can use that fact to compare Suter, Weber, Phaneuf to the young forwards who just got out of their Entry Level Contract. I am definately not saying that Weber should ask for Lidstrom money. Just use the fact that dmen are now paid as well as forwards.

So, if Weber and Phaneuf make the "same impact" on their teams that guys like Staal, Nash, Kovalchuk, Heatley made to their respective clubs, (and all these guys are making about 4.5 million cap hit up to 5.5 or something), the agents will use these forwards's salaries as comparables as well. Both Weber and Phaneuf have another year to show that they can be top level shut down Dmen, as well as contribute on the PP. That type of impact on a team is going to be equal to the points that Nash, Kovalchuk, Staal, Heatley put up.
I see where you are coming from a lot better now. But I think Staal, Kovalchuk are superstars on a level that Weber and Suter won't be when their contracts are up. I just don't see them being able to use that group of young stars as a comparable nearly as effectively as they would be in using Kronwall. I fear they'll try to use Kronwall as the least they deserve, and worst case scenario, try to find a happy ground between someone they feel they are better than (Kronwall) and someone they feel is better than them (Kovalchuk).

SmokeyClause is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 01:18 PM
  #61
Aucoin3
Registered User
 
Aucoin3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Kronwall has showed his dominance on all stages except the NHL due to injuries. He has the tools, he's been consistent, he's worth it.
...but isnt he NHL all that really matters. Alexander Daigle showed his dominance on all stages except the NHL also. How aboud Dave Chykowski he was pretty dominent as well.

Aucoin3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 01:20 PM
  #62
Corto
Faceless Man
 
Corto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Braavos
Country: Croatia
Posts: 12,880
vCash: 500
From a total outside to both Detroit and Nashville.

I hope the Kronwall deal in no way effects Boille.

You got the best young core of D-men I've seen in a long time. And you deserved it, came to it by being patient and drafting smart.
Would be a pity to lose one of them cos what one of them "could" (well, probably will) become.

Corto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2006, 01:35 PM
  #63
Gnashville
Never trade Weber
 
Gnashville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 4,537
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aucoin3 View Post
...but isnt he NHL all that really matters. Alexander Daigle showed his dominance on all stages except the NHL also. How aboud Dave Chykowski he was pretty dominent as well.
That's what I thought HE's being paid to produce for the Detroit Red Wings not Team Sweden. Something he has yet to do on a consistant basis.

Gnashville is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.