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Old
10-09-2013, 05:43 PM
  #51
M Gaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ramsay View Post
It's not exactly easy to come across or develop a Lucic.... how many players are there like him in the entire league? You make it sound like every team has a Lucic
I know that, but after all these years we haven't been able to develop a good power forward? We have Yogan coming up but he's no guarantee.

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10-09-2013, 05:52 PM
  #52
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I know that, but after all these years we haven't been able to develop a good power forward? We have Yogan coming up but he's no guarantee.
Sather 4 life. : cry:

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Old
10-09-2013, 05:54 PM
  #53
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why do the Rangers get big guys that are soft?? that is what id like to know.. imagine if Pyatt had the grit Callahan does..



on players that might be available here are some names:

Matt Beleskey. with the Ducks needing defense, i can see him being available. 3rd liner with grit and can play on the PP if you need a guy in front of the net.. 25 years old..

Gregory Campbell, doubt he would get traded to Rangers but is a solid player that plays center and also willing to drop the gloves.. id love to have him instead of guys like Pyatt and Boyle..

Tuomo Ruutu.. he had his injuries, but this is the type of player Rangers can use... he can score and plays with an edge.. id deal Del Zotto and Boyle for Ruutu and a solid prospect like Brock McGinn...

Jeremy Morin, somewhat of an unknown but had good stats in the AHL and only 22.. i doubt Hawks move him but they are in a win now mode and they know how to win with youth....

Andrew Shaw i doubt he gets traded but this is one guy id love on this team.... 5th round from 2011 and makes the NHL the following year...

Steve Downie.... this is one player the Rangers should go after... Rangers need emotion in their game from time to time. he will bring that...

Jamie McGinn... another player that can play top 9, hit and fight when needed.. Sharks should have kept him...


these are the type of players Rangers should trade for...

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10-09-2013, 06:06 PM
  #54
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Make that a proposal x 2.

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10-09-2013, 06:25 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
How many Lucic like players would you say there is in this leauge?
Exactly. There's only one and that's Lucic.

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10-09-2013, 07:26 PM
  #56
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I think the problem with this Ranger team and the vast majority of the ones before it is lack of players with a mean streak. That's pretty different from "toughness," "standing up for teammates," or "hitting." I think the confusion lies in no easily quantifiable stats for this category of players and the fact that many of the guys who play on the edge also happen to fight and are frequent hitters. However, a number of the guys who fight and hit a lot don't play with a mean streak. The Rangers usually have the latter type of "toughness."

The 11-12 team was statistically tough. They were at the top of the league in hitting and fighting. Players stood up for their teammates. That didn't stop the Sens from pushing them around in the play-offs.
For all their toughness that Ranger team lacked a single player with a real mean streak once Avery was banished and lost his effectiveness. The Caps and Devils were not intimidated one bit in the following series, with the Caps in particular running far more Rangers than vice versa.

NYR need a guy like Kronwall who never fights, but intimidates through big hits that are at the edge of legal far more than someone in the top 4 D who will just fight for his teammates. They need a guy like Dustin Brown who hits to hurt and is sometimes reckless at it, not one more Cally who separates the opposition from the puck and wears them down through volume. They need at least a couple of guys who are intimidating between the whistles and can log major minutes. If they can fight, it's a bonus, but not a priority.

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10-09-2013, 07:48 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esa 10 View Post
I think the problem with this Ranger team and the vast majority of the ones before it is lack of players with a mean streak. That's pretty different from "toughness," "standing up for teammates," or "hitting." I think the confusion lies in no easily quantifiable stats for this category of players and the fact that many of the guys who play on the edge also happen to fight and are frequent hitters. However, a number of the guys who fight and hit a lot don't play with a mean streak. The Rangers usually have the latter type of "toughness."

The 11-12 team was statistically tough. They were at the top of the league in hitting and fighting. Players stood up for their teammates. That didn't stop the Sens from pushing them around in the play-offs.
For all their toughness that Ranger team lacked a single player with a real mean streak once Avery was banished and lost his effectiveness. The Caps and Devils were not intimidated one bit in the following series, with the Caps in particular running far more Rangers than vice versa.

NYR need a guy like Kronwall who never fights, but intimidates through big hits that are at the edge of legal far more than someone in the top 4 D who will just fight for his teammates. They need a guy like Dustin Brown who hits to hurt and is sometimes reckless at it, not one more Cally who separates the opposition from the puck and wears them down through volume. They need at least a couple of guys who are intimidating between the whistles and can log major minutes. If they can fight, it's a bonus, but not a priority.
I agree with this. Downie would be a good one. Avery-esque with more skill, and not neutered.

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10-09-2013, 07:54 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ramsay View Post
It's not exactly easy to come across or develop a Lucic.... how many players are there like him in the entire league? You make it sound like every team has a Lucic
Simmonds
Hartnell
Downie
Foligno
Foligno
Lucic
Dubinsky
Burns
Clowe
Clarkson
Kassian
Brown
Perry
Malone (kind of)
Kunitz
Bickell
Bertuzzi (kind of)
Backes
Stewart
Iginla (kind of)
Richards


3rd/4th liners:
Nolan
Nystrom
Hendricks
Prust
Moen
Neil
Smith
Dorsett
Boll
McLeod
Bordeleau
Clifford
King
Tootoo
Campbell
Thornton
Beleskey
Matthias


That's just off the top of my head. Why is it so hard for the Rangers to get, and keep a few of those players?

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Old
10-09-2013, 08:22 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Simmonds
Hartnell
Downie
Foligno
Foligno
Lucic
Dubinsky
Burns
Clowe
Clarkson
Kassian
Brown
Perry
Malone (kind of)
Kunitz
Bickell
Bertuzzi (kind of)
Backes
Stewart
Iginla (kind of)
Richards


3rd/4th liners:
Nolan
Nystrom
Hendricks
Prust
Moen
Neil
Smith
Dorsett
Boll
McLeod
Bordeleau
Clifford
King
Tootoo
Campbell
Thornton
Beleskey
Matthias


That's just off the top of my head. Why is it so hard for the Rangers to get, and keep a few of those players?

please dont remind me.. i wish this team was not so soft

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:27 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
please dont remind me.. i wish this team was not so soft
I agree. We need one player of this frame on our team. An energy injection that can play the game, Replacing Pyatt IMO. Or Pouliot - maybe both. We would need to add a prospect and/or a pick to get one. Cap space might be very tricky as well.
Plus perhaps an upgrade at #13/14 to replace Asham to fight heavies if things go that way which I fear they will

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:34 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Honestly Benoit Pouliot has been so useless so far.
I look at Pouliot, remember the good feelings about him when he entered the league. Minnesota Wild, Montreal Canadiens, Boston Bruins, Tampa Bay Lightning, and now New York Rangers.

If there was something magical about NYR that could make this guy, with all his speed, into even a reasonable scorer, that would be cool.
I guess, like the previous teams, we wait and see. Maybe the odds aren't great, but you have to play it out a bit longer.
Here's to hoping.

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:39 AM
  #62
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They thought they got that in Clowe, but that experiment failed.
The problem is those players are hard to get and if, big IF, they are available, they come at a massive premium.
Just look at the deals Clarkson, Horton and Clowe got

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10-10-2013, 03:39 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
yea because that will help protect Nash from dirty hits...

Rangers have a soft i dont care about my teammates mentality that has to go...


i bet if this happened with the Canucks and Sharks i bet the canucks would have done something. i doubt this is a coaching issue...


imagine if this happened on one of the Sedins or Kesler...
You can't be that oblivious... can you? You don't actually believe that, right?

On topic: Steve Downie is the man and I would love to have him on this team. He's most likely not available and what would we have to trade to get him anyway?

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10-10-2013, 04:21 AM
  #64
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I think a lack of toughness is in the Rangers dna. They haven't really been a team to be feared since the days of Messier and Graves. They've had good years and tough guys here and there. But the thread through every year in recent memory is the Ranger don't police the ice. This has nothing to do with goons. They don't play. Opponents just feel completely free to run Rangers. Especially Henrik. I'd go so far as to say, if Henrik leaves, it will likely be due to the fact he gets such little protection. And his next team will be one that has a zero tolerance appproach to protecting their goalie. It's a disappointment every year. One of the best memories for me in recent years was when Rupp took care of that guy on the Panthers who ran Henrik. Unfortunately Rupp couldn't play well enough to be on the ice regularly.

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10-10-2013, 04:43 AM
  #65
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We had the perfect guy on our roster two years ago. Not only did he stick up for his teammates but every single team hated playing against him. Sean Avery!!!!!

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10-10-2013, 06:45 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by egelband View Post
I think a lack of toughness is in the Rangers dna. They haven't really been a team to be feared since the days of Messier and Graves. They've had good years and tough guys here and there. But the thread through every year in recent memory is the Ranger don't police the ice. This has nothing to do with goons. They don't play. Opponents just feel completely free to run Rangers. Especially Henrik. I'd go so far as to say, if Henrik leaves, it will likely be due to the fact he gets such little protection. And his next team will be one that has a zero tolerance appproach to protecting their goalie. It's a disappointment every year. One of the best memories for me in recent years was when Rupp took care of that guy on the Panthers who ran Henrik. Unfortunately Rupp couldn't play well enough to be on the ice regularly.
We did have Barnaby Simon McCarthy and Purinton during the dark ages and then Dan LaCouture... i doubt anyone was scared of those guys since we got them at the time they were close to being washed up or turned to crap here, but at least they were always willing to stick up for teammates.


when the Flyers star players get hit they respond.... why cant Rangers do the same?? remember this?? Rangers should watch this to know how to stick up for teammates...




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Old
10-10-2013, 08:10 AM
  #67
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I agree. We need one player of this frame on our team. An energy injection that can play the game, Replacing Pyatt IMO. Or Pouliot - maybe both. We would need to add a prospect and/or a pick to get one. Cap space might be very tricky as well.
Plus perhaps an upgrade at #13/14 to replace Asham to fight heavies if things go that way which I fear they will
Pyatt, Pouliot, Moore, Asham, Dorsett. Replace them with size, speed, youth, hunger and toughness. No body watches the game to see a bunch of journeymen try and vie for the Lady Byng. Derek Dorsett is not a deterrent, you need some semblance of intimidation in his role, not just some scrappy little fella that barely fights.

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10-10-2013, 08:10 AM
  #68
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Stuart didnt get killed tuesday night, which means nobody on this team cares about their fellow teammates.....

what would the difference have been if we had chris stewart, prust, brown, downie, hartnell on the team? stuart would have still looked to finish his check on nash like he did, nash would have still gotten hurt, and one of the above mentioned guys would have went after stuart JUST LIKE BOYLE DID and gotten a penalty for it since stuart wanted nothing to do with a fight.

this notion that having these guys on the team changes anything is ridiculous, any of the teams that these tough, image changing players, play on deal with the same **** we do on a nightly basis and the name on the jersey isnt going to change that

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10-10-2013, 09:03 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
Stuart didnt get killed tuesday night, which means nobody on this team cares about their fellow teammates.....

what would the difference have been if we had chris stewart, prust, brown, downie, hartnell on the team? stuart would have still looked to finish his check on nash like he did, nash would have still gotten hurt, and one of the above mentioned guys would have went after stuart JUST LIKE BOYLE DID and gotten a penalty for it since stuart wanted nothing to do with a fight.

this notion that having these guys on the team changes anything is ridiculous, any of the teams that these tough, image changing players, play on deal with the same **** we do on a nightly basis and the name on the jersey isnt going to change that
I think you are missing the point. It's not about that particular game at that point, its about sending a message and the message isn't just to the opposing team, it's sent to the rest of the league but most of all the guys on our own team. Being tough to play against and having the guts to throw down with someone is infectious. Its spreads through the team, makes everyone play bigger and more confident.

When you fail to step up when the moment calls for it, you better believe other teams take notes on that and look to exploit. Stuart just laughed at our whole team and basically said "Do Something" and we did nothing. If Boyle wanted to do something about it he should have laid a hit on Stuart or just jumped him like Carkner did to him, not take a pansy ass penalty, same for Asham with his sissy slash later in the game.

The captain of their team called us out publicly for being soft and then we let his team show us up and we tuck tail and hide, pathetic.

I'm not looking to over-romanticize the 11-12 team but they at least let it be known that they would fight and stick up for guys and not take any ****. We all loved that season because it was basically something we never saw this team do and were mostly shocked to see a Rangers team play that way. Then we blew it all up and now here we are looking for the blood, sweat and guts that we already had but chose to walk away from. You reap what you sow!

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10-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #70
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I think you are missing the point. It's not about that particular game at that point, its about sending a message and the message isn't just to the opposing team, it's sent to the rest of the league but most of all the guys on our own team. Being tough to play against and having the guts to throw down with someone is infectious. Its spreads through the team, makes everyone play bigger and more confident.

When you fail to step up when the moment calls for it, you better believe other teams take notes on that and look to exploit. Stuart just laughed at our whole team and basically said "Do Something" and we did nothing. If Boyle wanted to do something about it he should have laid a hit on Stuart or just jumped him like Carkner did to him, not take a pansy ass penalty, same for Asham with his sissy slash later in the game.

The captain of their team called us out publicly for being soft and then we let his team show us up and we tuck tail and hide, pathetic.

I'm not looking to over-romanticize the 11-12 team but they at least let it be known that they would fight and stick up for guys and not take any ****. We all loved that season because it was basically something we never saw this team do and were mostly shocked to see a Rangers team play that way. Then we blew it all up and now here we are looking for the blood, sweat and guts that we already had but chose to walk away from. You reap what you sow!
im kind of hoping tonight that Perry or Getzlaf tries to injure Callahan or Stepan, maybe if it happens a 2ed time, maybe they will think about sticking up for each other. im sorry to say this but if you dont stick up for your teammates you should not be playing sports..

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Old
10-10-2013, 07:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
You can't be that oblivious... can you? You don't actually believe that, right?
I really don't see the opposite situation here dude.

I'm watching Rangers games frequently for many years now, they seldom ever stuck up for our teammates. The last 4 years? We got bullied around almost all of the time.

Hank getting run through, young players bullied, stars bullied. Nobody ever gave a ****. The closest players always skate away.

It's sad but true ...


On a side note, the mood on the board is really bad after that 9-2, hopefully the team gives us something tonight. We are so negative it's getting masochist to be a fan of the Team ...

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10-10-2013, 07:57 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Simmonds
Hartnell
Downie
Foligno
Foligno
Lucic
Dubinsky
Burns
Clowe
Clarkson
Kassian
Brown
Perry
Malone (kind of)
Kunitz
Bickell
Bertuzzi (kind of)
Backes
Stewart
Iginla (kind of)
Richards


3rd/4th liners:
Nolan
Nystrom
Hendricks
Prust
Moen
Neil
Smith
Dorsett
Boll
McLeod
Bordeleau
Clifford
King
Tootoo
Campbell
Thornton
Beleskey
Matthias


That's just off the top of my head. Why is it so hard for the Rangers to get, and keep a few of those players?
Wow, what a terribly misleadling list. Nearly all of these guys are nothing like Lucic.

There are very few guys in the league, that can play to his level, play a big hitting game and drop the gloves when necessary.

I'm so dissapointed in this list, I'm actually going to go through each "top 6" player you listed and disprove nearly all of them.

Prior to doing that, if the Rangers are going to go after a guy, there are only a handful int he NHL, i think are worth going for. They should sack up and just overpay to get one. Ott, Downie, etc. Get someone with an insane amount of grit, like Prust had and drop a nice prospect and a pick there way. We need to cut it out with the in between guys and certainly the awful decisions like Scott, Boogaard and Brashear.

Now, just so all laymen aren't mislead, i feel the need to do this.
_____________
Hartnell - Fair
Downie - Good
Foligno - Not top 6
Foligno - Are you referring to Marcus Foligno here? He's a prospect and hasn't shown he's worthy of sticking in the NHL let alone the top 6.
Lucic - Lucic compared to lucic....making your list look longer
Dubinsky - Callahan like- not like Lucic
Burns - 0 fights in his last two seasons....
Clowe - Is this a joke, not top 6 anymore and way overpaid
Clarkson - see above, seriously overpaid
Kassian - not top 6
Brown - Callahan like, closer to lucic then dubinsky though
Perry - again, really seems like you're confusing gritty (ala ryan callahan and numerous other rangers, dorsett, asham, etc, in comparison to tough guy who can play)
Malone (kind of) - declining player, waste of money
Kunitz - a whopping 1 fight in each of his last five seasons
Bickell - not top 6
Bertuzzi (kind of) - i hear gordie howe used to be a hardcore power forward also
Backes - see ryan callahan
Stewart - rangers fans would destroy this guy for lack of consistent effort
Iginla (kind of) - 10 years ago
Richards - mike richards?

A power forward like Lucic is extremely rare. You act like they're a dime a dozen. This list is filled with guys who play like Callahan, they hit a lot but aren't neccesarily "tough guys." Listing gritty players is laughable. Listing guys that throw their body around and score goals, while dropping the gloves and acting as an enforcer are so rare and the reason they are so coveted around the league.

Ott was like the only untouchable on Buffalo's roster last year. He's not even young and they are in a rebuild. Do you understand why? Because they're impossible to find.

I would never say that the Rangers shouldn't try to find guys to fill the clear void they have in this area, but it is not simple to develop this kind of player, nor is it simple to get one in the market.

If there are any rumblings of Ott or Lucic or even someone a little more lightweight then them, ala Downie, the Rangers should overpay to get them here. We have enough young prospects to afford to pay for one of these guys. Bite the bullet and do it. And not for a geezer/injury prone, over the hill guy like Clowe or Bertuzzi.

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10-10-2013, 08:07 PM
  #73
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There's a fundamental term missing from OP's title:

"Has Skill"

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10-10-2013, 08:38 PM
  #74
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Anyone apply for the position yet? I'd like to sit in on the interview.

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10-10-2013, 08:39 PM
  #75
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Anyone apply for the position yet? I'd like to sit in on the interview.
why cant the Rangers get a player like this?? it seems like a few teams have them...

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