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Revisiting the Halak trade.

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Old
10-08-2013, 11:38 AM
  #51
Rizzo90
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Originally Posted by Daley Tarasenkshow View Post
This is exactly what I've began to think of all our previous trades. We have a contending team now, so why revisit anything?
I am now standing & cheering you

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10-08-2013, 08:17 PM
  #52
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I was wondering, if it is the consensus opinion that Halak is a lock to be resigned at the end of the season?

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10-08-2013, 08:23 PM
  #53
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I was wondering, if it is the consensus opinion that Halak is a lock to be resigned at the end of the season?
Probably pretty far from it. There are so many variables in play and so much riding on this season.

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10-08-2013, 09:38 PM
  #54
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Probably pretty far from it. There are so many variables in play and so much riding on this season.

I am envisioning a Halak / Allen tandem next year. That would be sick

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10-09-2013, 05:32 AM
  #55
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Signing Halák might be problematic.

If he has a great year then we'll have to give him 6 years/$30m (at least) unless Armstrong is willing to take a risk and get a deal done at the end of November. If he is less than great, then I'd expect us to go in another direction.

Right now I would be surprised if he was back. I just don't see Armstrong either taking the risk in the next couple of months or paying the kind of money that he would undoubtedly be looking for after a big year.

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10-09-2013, 08:49 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Signing Halák might be problematic.

If he has a great year then we'll have to give him 6 years/$30m (at least) unless Armstrong is willing to take a risk and get a deal done at the end of November. If he is less than great, then I'd expect us to go in another direction.

Right now I would be surprised if he was back. I just don't see Armstrong either taking the risk in the next couple of months or paying the kind of money that he would undoubtedly be looking for after a big year.
If Halak has a great year and the Blues commit to him as the #1, I don't think he'll want to leave and Army has done this in the past.

That said, the way some of these goalie contracts have gone lately, 5 years/30 million might not be that bad.

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10-09-2013, 09:03 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
I am envisioning a Halak / Allen tandem next year. That would be sick
I could imagine it now. Rumor is Edmonton might be looking for a goalie, after giving up 15 goals in 3 games. Sounds like a possible destination for Elliott.

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10-09-2013, 10:23 AM
  #58
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I'd be okay with an Allen-Elliot tandem as well next year. I mean it really all depends on how Allen plays this year in the AHL. I mean he needs to take the next step at some point. He's getting older by the minute, and I still believe he could be a #1. I mean the NHL has seen plenty of young guys earn starting roles, Holtby, Varlamov, and even guys like Lehner and Bishop are seeing lots of time. Allen should be getting close to those players. At what point will he take his next step? I feel like he could lead this team next year if he plays well. He just has such a great presence on the ice. That said, will he be ready for 65 games? No. Elliot or Halak need to return.

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10-09-2013, 10:52 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Daley Tarasenkshow View Post
I'd be okay with an Allen-Elliot tandem as well next year. I mean it really all depends on how Allen plays this year in the AHL. I mean he needs to take the next step at some point. He's getting older by the minute, and I still believe he could be a #1. I mean the NHL has seen plenty of young guys earn starting roles, Holtby, Varlamov, and even guys like Lehner and Bishop are seeing lots of time. Allen should be getting close to those players. At what point will he take his next step? I feel like he could lead this team next year if he plays well. He just has such a great presence on the ice. That said, will he be ready for 65 games? No. Elliot or Halak need to return.
How many of those young guys as starters was Plan A on a cup contending team?

I think Allen has a bright future, and is slated as the back-up next season (though I suppose he could fight to win the starting job in camp). But his success in the NHL last season has been exaggerated. His save percentage was sub-par. The team was simply in a desperate situation where any bright spot was needed to spark a turn-around.

But to make the jump to be depended on night-in night-out in the NHL, its a big assumption to think Allen is going to outperform the level of a healthy Halak. I want the guy that can win a Cup.

Anyway, if Halak has a good season (stays healthy) and performs like he's looked in the first two games, he'll be back as the starter with Allen as his back-up. It will cost a bit, but it will be the right move.

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10-09-2013, 11:27 AM
  #60
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Ideally, Halak has a good year, and we bring him back. Elliott walks and Allen takes over as the backup. Although, if Jaro stays healthy, I could see Elliott getting moved. I can't explain it, but I've just got this gut feeling that if Halak is hurt when the playoffs roll around that Hitch and Army are going to turn it over to Allen. I have absolutely nothing to back this up. Just a gut feeling.

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10-09-2013, 12:45 PM
  #61
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Jake Allen will very likely be our backup next season, and he should be ready for that role. We will need to sign a full-time starter, so I don't expect that to be Elliott because I don't believe that's what he is. We don't HAVE to bring back Halak either, but we will need to sign SOME starter (Halak, Miller, and Hiller look like the most intriguing options since they aren't too old. Obviously Lundqvist is the best but I doubt we even try).

If Halak has a great year this season then sure he could be back. But I question that based on what his asking price will be, AND I still wonder how comfortable he is here. I'm not banking on him being back honestly, but we'll see.

I don't want to trade Elliott though because if we have an injury to Halak we'd be in trouble.

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10-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #62
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If Halak stays healthy and has a monster year, and that's a very big IF Halak stays healthy, it's a very long year mind you no way he returns here.

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10-10-2013, 10:29 AM
  #63
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If Halak stays healthy and has a monster year, and that's a very big IF Halak stays healthy, it's a very long year mind you no way he returns here.
Why?

Why would he leave a team that's having success, where his family lives, if he's offered a fair contract? If the Blues want to keep him and he wants to stay here, it shouldn't be that hard. If he prioritizes getting maximum possible salary he might choose to walk, but the goalie market isn't really that good and there are a couple high profile guys who he might be competing with.

If I were him I'd try to get maximum term and be willing to come down on salary number.

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10-10-2013, 10:37 AM
  #64
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The only thing that has me concerned about Halak's next deal is Crawford's 6x6.

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10-10-2013, 10:37 AM
  #65
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I'd be okay with an Allen-Elliot tandem as well next year. I mean it really all depends on how Allen plays this year in the AHL. I mean he needs to take the next step at some point. He's getting older by the minute, and I still believe he could be a #1. I mean the NHL has seen plenty of young guys earn starting roles, Holtby, Varlamov, and even guys like Lehner and Bishop are seeing lots of time. Allen should be getting close to those players. At what point will he take his next step? I feel like he could lead this team next year if he plays well. He just has such a great presence on the ice. That said, will he be ready for 65 games? No. Elliot or Halak need to return.
I am not comfortable at all with an Allen/Elliot tandem. Elliot isn't a starter. Great backup, able to play 35 games, but not much more then that. Last season he was putrid early on. The only reason Allen saw time was Elliot couldn't stop a beach ball. And quite frankly, he let in a couple of softy's during the playoffs.

Halak is and has been pretty consistent - however, he has yet to play 65 games. The issue is health - and based on what was said about his offseason this year, it may have had a lot to due with not taking care of business in the offseason in the past.

I don't see him getting a $6 million deal unless we get to the finals and are riding his play. He has shown he is a great 1 A., but never shown he can be a true number 1. That kind of $$ go to number 1 goalies.

Also, there is the home town discount and Blues salary structure that must be taken into account. Face it, unless the $$ aren't there, most players would prefer to play for the team they have been for awhile. Moving the family isn't fun, especially once you start having kids. It isn't just the move, but support structure also....

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10-10-2013, 12:11 PM
  #66
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The only way we keep Halak is if he has a great season, as he's going to be looking for a pay day with a long-term contract. I'd rather dump Elliott at the same time and sign Hiller, who at 32 won't be expecting a long-term contract and we could get at a reasonable price while Allen continues to develop. Let's not overstate Allen's readiness.. he still has plenty of time to develop. Just like Schneider, I'd rather Allen develop slowly rather than force him up as starter too early.

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10-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #67
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We're getting way ahead of ourselves. Halak had his best game as a Blue last night but we're a long way from the playoffs. Remember he has an injury history. We're off to a great start with him this year and that's nothing but good but there is a long way to go. Also remember that Allen's contract next year is NHL one-way. It'll be some goalie and Allen.

A) Halak/Allen
B) Elliott/Allen
C) Other/Allen

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10-10-2013, 12:44 PM
  #68
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The only way we keep Halak is if he has a great season, as he's going to be looking for a pay day with a long-term contract. I'd rather dump Elliott at the same time and sign Hiller, who at 32 won't be expecting a long-term contract and we could get at a reasonable price while Allen continues to develop. Let's not overstate Allen's readiness.. he still has plenty of time to develop. Just like Schneider, I'd rather Allen develop slowly rather than force him up as starter too early.
Agreed. There's too much impetus -- especially with teams on the verge -- to over-value a goalie when he shows a little potential. Not everyone has the nerve and will of a Roy or Belfour, who were brought in very early to win now. Halak and Hiller would be a great tandem. We could give Hiller enough starts to keep Halak fresh for the playoffs, without leaving any doubt in his mind that he's #1. I think that's really important for him to understand.


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The only thing that has me concerned about Halak's next deal is Crawford's 6x6.
Which he'll get if he wins us a Cup. That's the A#1 ONLY reason Crawfish got that money.


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10-10-2013, 12:52 PM
  #69
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Which he'll get if he wins us a Cup. That's the A#1 ONLY reason Crawfish got that money.
Howard got $5.3m x 6 years for? Or Smith getting $5.67m x 6 years...

Win the Cup or not, get to the finals or not, if Halák keeps close to this level of play then he is looking for $5m for 6 years at an absolute minimum. Probably closer to $6m. If the cap goes up by $5m then his agent will know there will be plenty of desperate GM's willing to pay big...

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10-10-2013, 01:37 PM
  #70
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Howard got $5.3m x 6 years for? Or Smith getting $5.67m x 6 years...

Win the Cup or not, get to the finals or not, if Halák keeps close to this level of play then he is looking for $5m for 6 years at an absolute minimum. Probably closer to $6m. If the cap goes up by $5m then his agent will know there will be plenty of desperate GM's willing to pay big...
Yeah, but both of those guys are the true number 1 tenders. Neither player has played as a tandem guy. (Howard did get Detroit to the WCF finals - and he carried that team). Smith is the only one you can argue about not having success playoff success.

Let me ask you another question, if Halak is healthy and keeps his current level of play - has success in the playoffs - why would you not want to resign him?

Who else is out there outside of Miller (who has been pretty pedestrian the last couple of years)? I am not sold on Hiller being a fulltime starter.

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10-10-2013, 01:39 PM
  #71
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Halak and Hiller would be a great tandem. We could give Hiller enough starts to keep Halak fresh for the playoffs, without leaving any doubt in his mind that he's #1. I think that's really important for him to understand.
Oh, I actually meant dumping both Halak and Elliott unless Halak suddenly wins the Vezna and a Cup. The reason being because Halak will want a long-term contract, and if we plan to have Allen start in, say, 3 years from now (which is the MINIMUM, in my opinion), and Halak wants a 5 year contract, given his age, I don't see it working. Halak has to prove to us THIS YEAR that he deserves a 5 year/$25+ contract or else I see him walking. If he has a bad year, then there's no reason for us to resign him at all and instead look at someone like Hiller who will want less years (maybe 2-3?) at likely less money($3.5m-$4m/year?), given that Fasth will take much of his time this season.

I'd be perfectly happy with signing Hiller after this season and riding out the next 2-3 seasons with him as starter or 1A while Allen backs up, is a 1B, continues to start in Chicago, and/or just generally continues to develop.


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10-10-2013, 07:10 PM
  #72
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We're getting way ahead of ourselves. Halak had his best game as a Blue last night but we're a long way from the playoffs. Remember he has an injury history. We're off to a great start with him this year and that's nothing but good but there is a long way to go. Also remember that Allen's contract next year is NHL one-way. It'll be some goalie and Allen.

A) Halak/Allen
B) Elliott/Allen
C) Other/Allen
This is exactly right. It'll be Allen and Halak IMO with Binington in the AHL. I could see the blues drafting a goalie in the 4th or 5th round. Lundstrom looks good and Tremblay is decent, but it may not hurt to add another.

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10-10-2013, 08:48 PM
  #73
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Howard got $5.3m x 6 years for? Or Smith getting $5.67m x 6 years...
You don't compare guys like that or Lundy for example to Crawford. He's not at that level. So how does he get paid? Bring a Cup to Chicago.

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10-11-2013, 01:56 AM
  #74
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Why?

Why would he leave a team that's having success, where his family lives, if he's offered a fair contract? If the Blues want to keep him and he wants to stay here, it shouldn't be that hard. If he prioritizes getting maximum possible salary he might choose to walk, but the goalie market isn't really that good and there are a couple high profile guys who he might be competing with.

If I were him I'd try to get maximum term and be willing to come down on salary number.
Have you seen how many of their own free agents the Blues have besides Halak and Elliott? : Steen, Sobotka, Berglund, Roy, Morrow, Reaves, Schwartz and Cracknell?

I'll rephrase : Allen will be here next season. One of Halak and Elliott won't for sure and if Halak has a monster year and stays healthy I'm thinking he will cash in on a big pay day multi year contract that will be too rich for the Blues to swallow.


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10-11-2013, 05:09 AM
  #75
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You don't compare guys like that or Lundy for example to Crawford. He's not at that level. So how does he get paid? Bring a Cup to Chicago.
I don't really know what you are getting at, you are saying the only reason Crawford got big money was the Cup... I gave you 2 names that got big money, long term that didn't get the Cup.

Mike Smith has played over 50 games in a season once in his professional career. Crawford has shown himself able to handle a workload while putting up similar career numbers and with postseason success. Even taking away that postseason success, he is at least as good as Smith.

Halák is undoubtedly a better goalie than Smith. He doesn't need a fantastic year to make that true.

A goalies trade value might be low, but when a GM think they have a starter they have clearly shown in the last few months that they are willing to throw long term, stupid money at them. Halák will expect the same whether we win a Cup or not.

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Yeah, but both of those guys are the true number 1 tenders. Neither player has played as a tandem guy. (Howard did get Detroit to the WCF finals - and he carried that team). Smith is the only one you can argue about not having success playoff success.

Let me ask you another question, if Halak is healthy and keeps his current level of play - has success in the playoffs - why would you not want to resign him?

Who else is out there outside of Miller (who has been pretty pedestrian the last couple of years)? I am not sold on Hiller being a fulltime starter.
If Halák has a big year then there is no doubt we'll want to keep him around. Should we expect it though?

Does 1 big season make Armstrong see Halák as the #1 for the next 6 years? Enough to commit big money to him? If it was 4 years, $20m then I would expect him back, but that hasn't been the market. Of course, Army might feel he has to do it, but it would be a big change from his prior dealings since arriving here.

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