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Old
10-11-2013, 06:50 AM
  #1
triggrman
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Forwards Time on Ice

I just wanted to look to see who was getting the most ice time of our forwards

Mike Fisher 18:13 total pg 13:59 es - and his production can't be argued. He has been our best center
Matt Cullen 17:05 total pg 11:58 es - I don't know why his is this high, he's not doing much when he's out there. He has one assist. Too much ice time
Eric Nystrom 15:23 total pg 13:24 es - What????? He's 2nd on the team at es. I like Nystrom but that's way to much ice time.
Craig Smith 15:05 Total pg 12:09 es - he's looked better, but not producing again, like Cullen has one assist in 4 games.


If you want to know why we can't score look at this. Gaustad would be our 3rd center, Legwand our 4th.

Going by ice time here's our actual lines

Forsberg-Fisher-Nystrom top 3 at es.
Smith-Cullen-Wilson 3-6 at es


So according to Trotz, this is our top 6.

David Legwand is our 4th line center with 10:55 at es, only Hendricks and Clune with less.

Going by shifts per game

1. Cullen 23
2. Fisher 22.3
3. Gaustad 21.5
4. Nystrom 21

and way down at number

10. Colin Wilson
11. Filip Forsberg


I wonder why we have no offense. The guys that actually can put the puck in the net are playing 2nd fiddle to guys like Gaustad and Nystrom.

I don't know why Nystrom is getting so much time, nor Cullen.

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10-11-2013, 07:09 AM
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hockey diva
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Because they have the right "detail" in their game. I guess goal scoring doesn't count as "detail". Also, our forecheck has been non-existent.

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10-11-2013, 07:15 AM
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triggrman
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The guys known for forechecking, like Bourque and Forsberg, don't get the icetime to produce.

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10-11-2013, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
The guys known for forechecking, like Bourque and Forsberg, don't get the icetime to produce.
Agreed. I'm real happy that we add some toughness as it was needed, but, as the rules state, a team needs to score goals to win. Bourque is off to a bad start this year, but offense is desperately needed as it was last year. Should be pretty obvious by now...

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10-11-2013, 10:09 AM
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I'm hoping Stalberg's return bumps Nystrom back into the bottom six.

Can't really say Forsberg is being put in a great position to succeed given his linemates.

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10-11-2013, 10:18 AM
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Big Hurt
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Nystrom has shown flahses of productivity, so I can't really nail him like some.

Cullen's ice time is a joke though.

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Old
10-11-2013, 10:22 AM
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Yeah, not really sure what's going on with Legwand's time, but he and Cullen should be switched, IMO. Like to see a Stalberg, Legwand, Forsberg line and give the wingers a green light.

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10-11-2013, 10:30 AM
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Roman Yoshi
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You smell that stench coming from 501 Broadway? That is a coach (and maybe GM) going past expiration date.

It's time to make changes in our coach and front office.

And while your at it, get rid of the video guy (what happened to our good intros?) and some of the media relations staff. Too many typos.

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10-11-2013, 10:35 AM
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AintLifeGrand
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Can't we promote Trotzy to some BS role in the Front Office and hire Laviolette?

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Old
10-11-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR303 View Post
Yeah, not really sure what's going on with Legwand's time, but he and Cullen should be switched, IMO. Like to see a Stalberg, Legwand, Forsberg line and give the wingers a green light.
The way it has gone this season so far, Cullen should be the one on the bench not Bourque. Yes Bourque had only 2 shots in 3 games, but is that 2 shots in total or just 2 that weren't blocked? When I watch Cullen, I see Hannan but as a forward. I just do not understand Cullen's place.

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10-11-2013, 11:37 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
Can't we promote Trotzy to some BS role in the Front Office and hire Laviolette?
Not sure about either...

Have not been a fan of the D&C Trotz runs, he seems to not want to change his style of play. If you look at NFL and NBA the teams that win are the ones that have changed how they play the game. If the Green Bay Packers still ran VL offense would they win? Trotz's D&C is the same he has been doing since he has been here. That strategy has worked fairly well for the most part. We were able to make the playoffs but we saw that the D&C will only get you so far, you still have to have some good scoring pieces to put the puck in the net and that has been our limiting factor. Not since Arnott, Kariya, Dumont and Sullivan have we had true top 3 scorers.

I like GMDP and HCBT but it might be time...

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Old
10-11-2013, 12:05 PM
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Just to give people an idea, here's what our lines look like based on even-strength ice time:

13:24-13:59-12:14
12:10-11:58-12:09
12:03-11:20-11:31
11:07-10:55-9:43

Nystrom-Fisher-Forsberg
Spaling-Cullen-Smith
Wilson-Gaustad-Hornqvist
Bourque-Legwand-Hendricks

Clune clocks in at 7:43.

There will be no debate from me that Fisher has been our best all-around forward, but the rest of this is completely out of whack. The players who are expected to produce big offense for us aren't getting the ice time they need to produce that offense. It seems like we're trying to focus more on match-ups than putting our best players on the ice, and it isn't working.

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Old
10-11-2013, 12:20 PM
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Drake744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
Can't we promote Trotzy to some BS role in the Front Office and hire Laviolette?
For what it's worth (very little), I got bored and decided to see if Pierre LeBrun would answer my question in an ESPN chat:


Quote:
Drake (Nashville, TN)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily in favor of it, but do you think there's any chance that Barry Trotz winds up on the hot seat sooner than later if the Preds can't get anything going in the first month or two of the season? It seems like he's taken the team as far as he can over the years and sometimes the only way to cure a stagnant organization is change.

Pierre LeBrun (12:53 PM)

I haven't heard any rumblings and I'm a big fan of Barry's, but yes, it wouldn't be completely unheard of given how long he's been there and the team wanting badly to get back into the playoffs after missing out last season. I hope not, but it's not out of the question

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Old
10-11-2013, 12:23 PM
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token grinder
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our 4th line, aside from Gastad needs to be getting 6 min or less. Gaustad more because of pk and faceoof ability.

I know things happen in games-penalties, power plays etc. But there really is no benefit to sending out the Gaustad unit after a power play. at worst it should be the third line. I am assuming this has more to do with Josi not being there on the PP and Cullen manning the point, which I do not like.We have 4 capable defenseman able to play the point. You send out Klein and Bartley quickly and then roll Weber/Jones and then back into normal pairs.

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10-11-2013, 12:27 PM
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It seems Cullen has looked terrible in every facet of the game. If ice time is based on who is performing, Cullen needs to be near the bottom.

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Old
10-11-2013, 12:50 PM
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Every year we get these fire Trotz threads during the month of October. Do I find it odd that our 4th line is getting as much ice time as our supposed top 6 guys, yes. Maybe Trotz is covering for the inexperienced blue line by playing guys who cycle the puck best -- keeping the puck in the offensive zone. You can't argue with Gooses face off percentage.

Once the guys settle into the system in November/December and we start winning games, everyone calms down. This year there are a lot of new pieces to inject into the team comprised of guys that have been here a while.

If we are still struggling 6-8 weeks from now, I'll be on board with a change. I know it's a concept not readily accepted on this board, but try to be a little patient.

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10-11-2013, 01:00 PM
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triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Every year we get these fire Trotz threads during the month of October. Do I find it odd that our 4th line is getting as much ice time as our supposed top 6 guys, yes. Maybe Trotz is covering for the inexperienced blue line by playing guys who cycle the puck best -- keeping the puck in the offensive zone. You can't argue with Gooses face off percentage.

Once the guys settle into the system in November/December and we start winning games, everyone calms down. This year there are a lot of new pieces to inject into the team comprised of guys that have been here a while.

If we are still struggling 6-8 weeks from now, I'll be on board with a change. I know it's a concept not readily accepted on this board, but try to be a little patient.
Why would Cullen get more icetime than Legwand then? Legwand's faceoff percentage is 2nd on the team, only 5% behind Gaustad, in fact Legwand faceoff percent at home is higher than Gaustads. Cullen on the other hand is at 43%.

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10-11-2013, 01:57 PM
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Legionnaire11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Every year we get these fire Trotz threads during the month of October. Do I find it odd that our 4th line is getting as much ice time as our supposed top 6 guys, yes. Maybe Trotz is covering for the inexperienced blue line by playing guys who cycle the puck best -- keeping the puck in the offensive zone. You can't argue with Gooses face off percentage.

Once the guys settle into the system in November/December and we start winning games, everyone calms down. This year there are a lot of new pieces to inject into the team comprised of guys that have been here a while.

If we are still struggling 6-8 weeks from now, I'll be on board with a change. I know it's a concept not readily accepted on this board, but try to be a little patient.
It's a very logical point of view...

But the first two words of the post sum it up for me.. "Every Year".

Every year the Preds come out flat, they have a lot of new pieces, they need time to gel, etc... Isn't the coach paid MILLIONS to get these guys ready in the offseason? I'm tired of hearing about how the team needs time to come together, game 1 is worth as many points as game 82, they need to be ready to go from the start.

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:13 PM
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Where is this Cullen hatred coming from. I have watched every minute of games this season and Cullen is one of the bright spots on the team. He creates chances, he skates hard, and he is a good defender.
Seems like people are drawing straws. Bottom line is the Preds have looked decent in every game this year. Are they
the Blackhawks? NO. They sure as hell could of easily won every game they have played this year and have been competitive.
The real problem lays in this system Trotz runs. Yes you can win with Trotz system but it has only happened 1 time so far this year.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:39 PM
  #20
triggrman
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Where is this Cullen hatred coming from. I have watched every minute of games this season and Cullen is one of the bright spots on the team. He creates chances, he skates hard, and he is a good defender.
Seems like people are drawing straws. Bottom line is the Preds have looked decent in every game this year. Are they
the Blackhawks? NO. They sure as hell could of easily won every game they have played this year and have been competitive.
The real problem lays in this system Trotz runs. Yes you can win with Trotz system but it has only happened 1 time so far this year.
In 4 games with the icetime he's getting he has 1 assist and he's getting killed at the dots. Also he's not that good defensively.

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10-11-2013, 07:14 PM
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NoNecksCurse
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where is the calling out weber? the guy gets paid like a ****ing mega-star... and he has been decent at best. slow start, yada yada... looks to me the better choice may have been $uter

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10-11-2013, 07:23 PM
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Liquidfire3240
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looks to me the better choice may have been $uter
There was no choice, at all, Suter didn't want to play anywhere else but Minnesota. He didnt even call Poile to see if the Preds wanted to match it.

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10-11-2013, 07:26 PM
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triggrman
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There was no choice, at all, Suter didn't want to play anywhere else but Minnesota. He didnt even call Poile to see if the Preds wanted to match it.
The only remember what they want too.

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10-11-2013, 07:48 PM
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NoNecksCurse
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The only remember what they want too.
im not saying we had a choice obviously... but if we did, $uter just may be who i choose. weber isn't worth his money

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Old
10-11-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
It's a very logical point of view...

But the first two words of the post sum it up for me.. "Every Year".

Every year the Preds come out flat, they have a lot of new pieces, they need time to gel, etc... Isn't the coach paid MILLIONS to get these guys ready in the offseason? I'm tired of hearing about how the team needs time to come together, game 1 is worth as many points as game 82, they need to be ready to go from the start.
Even when the team starts like 2010-11, people want Trotz gone. The fire Trotz threads don't even wait for the season to start.

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