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Fire AV, Fire Sather. This is a bad hockey team.

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:03 PM
  #226
Raspewtin
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Samuelsson's best days are definitely over but he would definitely help the powerplay.

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10-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The blueprint is in Detroit and Chicago. Scotty Bowman. Hardworking skill guys for the bottom six. They all skate well. They can make a play. Even Boston with Kelly,Campbell and Paille.
Set goals that we can reach. Detroit? Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterburg. We have none of that. Chicago? Toews, Hossa, Kane, Sharp. We have none of that. Boston? Eriksson, Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic.....not sure we have that either. Bottom line is the potency found in other teams top 6's is far more superior than ours. Depth.

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10-11-2013, 05:28 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Set goals that we can reach. Detroit? Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterburg. We have none of that. Chicago? Toews, Hossa, Kane, Sharp. We have none of that. Boston? Eriksson, Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic.....not sure we have that either. Bottom line is the potency found in other teams top 6's is far more superior than ours. Depth.
He specifically mentioned bottom six, which is generally our downfall.

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Set goals that we can reach. Detroit? Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterburg. We have none of that. Chicago? Toews, Hossa, Kane, Sharp. We have none of that. Boston? Eriksson, Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic.....not sure we have that either. Bottom line is the potency found in other teams top 6's is far more superior than ours. Depth.
uh just for the record

Nash > Sharp and possibly Hossa
Stepan > Marchand
Callahan and Stepan > Franzen (why did you even list him?)

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10-11-2013, 05:31 PM
  #230
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Does this team have five 20-goal scores on it? I mean, five guys you'd bet the farm will hit 20 this year?

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:44 PM
  #231
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Does this team have five 20-goal scores on it? I mean, five guys you'd bet the farm will hit 20 this year?
Nash
Stepan
Callahan
Richards

That's 4

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10-11-2013, 05:48 PM
  #232
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“When we talk about New York, we watched them beat LA,” Hitchcock said. “To me, you’ve got an Eastern team learning what it’s like to play out West – not fun. That would be an awful late game back-to-back against San Jose (the day after beating LA). And then when you get blown out, it takes you a couple of days to recover, at least.”

In Hitchcock’s mind, the Rangers had no chance to be ready to face Anaheim two days later, and it showed in their shutout.

“So to me, we’re 100 percent focused on the LA game, which was a great hockey game,” he said. “We saw how good they were, we saw how good they played, we saw how in sync they were, and that’s what we’re running our read on.

“I don’t look at those other games. To me, those are both write-off games. One is a write-off game because of travel and the other is a write-off game because of mental recovery from a blowout.”
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...30f9ce643.html

Stop it Hitch. You don't know what you're talking about.

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:49 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Nash
Stepan
Callahan
Richards

That's 4
Before the season, you would have bet the farm that Richards hit 20 this year?

I agree that Nash, Stepan and Callahan are givens. In my opinion, Richards, Brassard, Hagelin are all wild cards. And my point is that a team isn't solidly built when you are praying to the hockey gods that half of your top-six actually produce like top-six forwards. What did everyone honestly expect?

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:56 PM
  #234
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attention.. attention NYR fans.. i repeat NYR fans.. please back away from the ledge..

seriously.. we have a terrible schedule out of the gate.. a ****** pre season schedule.. and have key pieces out bc of injury, and make matters worse a coach who is new and doesn't/hasn't adjusted or knows his personel yet.. give it a month and a few home games.. stanley cup isn't won or lost first week of the season..

kings, pitt all won with poor opening stats.. they fired coaches, made trades and won a cup with all that **** going on in one season..

give it time boys.. no hope should be lost yet..

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10-11-2013, 05:58 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...30f9ce643.html

Stop it Hitch. You don't know what you're talking about.
Come on RB, you think there's any chance hitch would say something like, "Yeah the Rangers suck this year, they can't play the way AV is telling them to, they don't have the skill for it."? I wouldn't put a whole lot into coachspeak.

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10-11-2013, 06:00 PM
  #236
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Hey guys first time poster here but long time reader. This has probably been said already so forgive me if it has but honestly I doubt AV is any problem at all. It's not like he forgot to coach over the summer. The issue as I see it, is a miss match of coach to team. Torts, for all his flaws coached to the roster he had. The team is not offensive, nor quick, nor able to play a more puck possession style. We bring in a new coach and make virtually no roster adjustments and expect these same guys to now play a puck possession game that requires, as far as I can tell, speed and quickness to do well. Is anyone shocked that this is a recipe for a rough start? Many of the guys on this team are not fast enough to get to loose pucks( an important part to getting the puck) nor are they skilled enough to keep the puck once they have it.

Beyond that though, why we keep playing guys like Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle and Arron Asham are beyond me. None of them can skate well enough to play this style nor are they particularly good at any of the intangible parts of hockey,( grit, team chemistry etc.). Simply put, they waste roster spots with no upside at all. Guys like Dom Moore are valuable compared to these guys because at least Moore wins face offs. I'm completely at a loss as to why we don't give guys like Krieder and Miller and Kristo these same roster spots currently occupied by over the hills or never was players. At least Miller and Krieder and Kristo have not yet proven they can't play. Does anyone honestly need to see Boyle or Asham or Pyatt play again to know they can't get it done? If ever there was a chance to give the new guys a shot it is now. If everyone is learning the new system Boyle and Pyatt and Asham can't even use the "experience" or "trustworthy" or "veteran" card. They are just as clueless as the less experienced guys.

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10-11-2013, 06:02 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by JHS View Post
Hey guys first time poster here but long time reader. This has probably been said already so forgive me if it has but honestly I doubt AV is any problem at all. It's not like he forgot to coach over the summer. The issue as I see it, is a miss match of coach to team. Torts, for all his flaws coached to the roster he had. The team is not offensive, nor quick, nor able to play a more pick possession style. We bring in a new coach and make virtually no roster adjustments and expect these same guys to now play a pick possession game that requires, as far as I can tell, speed and quickness to do well. Is anyone shocked that this is a recipe for a rough start?

Beyond that though, why we keep playing guys like Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle and Arron Asham are beyond me. None of them can skate well enough to play this style nor are they particularly good at any of the intangible parts of hockey,( grit, team chemistry etc.). Simply put, they waste roster spots with no upside at all. Guys like Dom Moore are valuable compared to these guys because at least Moore wins face offs. I'm completely at a loss as to why we don't give guys like Krieder and Miller and Kristo these same roster spots currently occupied by over the hills or never was players. At least Miller and Krieder and Kristo have not yet proven they can't play. Does anyone honestly need to see Boyle or Asham or Pyatt play again to know they can't get it done? If ever there was a chance to give the new guys a shot it is now. If everyone is learning the new system Boyle and Pyatt and Asham can't even use the "experience" or "trustworthy" or "veteran" card. They are just as clueless as the less experienced guys.
Welcome aboard.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:09 PM
  #238
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I'm upset with the way things have played out so far, both in preseason (yes, even understanding the reasoning behind it) and in the first four on the road, tempered slightly by the LA game which I think was as much a product of our good play as luck and their mediocre play. I don't think we have the roster necessary to compete at the top tier, and I don't see that it will change anytime soon as none of our youngsters have really impressed. I'm a little concerned about the future of the team, to be quite honest. I think we'll do "alright" for a few years before there's a realization that we're going to have to hit bottom before we can be rebuilt. It will suck as a fan, but it is what it is.

All that said, for THIS season, I'm not ready to give up and panic until we're at least 1/4 in and have seen what they're like at home, in the East, and with more time to get acclimated to an entirely new system. If after 20 games we're still not scoring, and still being dominated like this periodically, yeah... I'll give up on this season. Still a fan, always a fan, but at that point I'll find another team to watch this year just so I can see good hockey. I'm a hockey fan above all else and what I've watched so far just hasn't been fun at all. I like Buffalo and Columbus, so hopefully one of them can do decently if we can't

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:18 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Before the season, you would have bet the farm that Richards hit 20 this year?

I agree that Nash, Stepan and Callahan are givens. In my opinion, Richards, Brassard, Hagelin are all wild cards. And my point is that a team isn't solidly built when you are praying to the hockey gods that half of your top-six actually produce like top-six forwards. What did everyone honestly expect?
I still believe the Rangers should have bought out Richards. Risk of injury is too great. 7 more seasons on the contract. He still had 34 points in 46 games last season. 11 goals. Pro-rated 19.6 goals. Pro-rated 60 points. He had 66 in his first season in New York. Richards will produce. He will match his production in 2013. He will get a good contract next summer as a free agent. Vinny had Philly,Montreal,Dallas and Boston chasing him after TB bought him out.

The Rangers have an issue. They don't really have the money to pay another to six forward. That issue will continue even with the cap going up to $68M-$70M. Buying out Richards will allow them to bring in another player but it probably won't enough. Henrik will get a raise. Callahan will get a raise. Who knows what they do with Girardi? I saw the replay of the Ducks game a few hours ago,he was terrible. He was OK last season. I was watching last night trying not to fall asleep. Some of the other group IIs will get a raise. Del Zotto is up for a new contract. They really to sit down as an organization and figure out where they are going.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:20 PM
  #240
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AV is typically strong with line matching. You guys haven't had last change yet so hopefully that should rectify something.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:25 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
They really to sit down as an organization and figure out where they are going.
Fully agree. With half the team needing new contracts, now is the time for management to have that discussion.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:33 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHS View Post
Hey guys first time poster here but long time reader. This has probably been said already so forgive me if it has but honestly I doubt AV is any problem at all. It's not like he forgot to coach over the summer. The issue as I see it, is a miss match of coach to team. Torts, for all his flaws coached to the roster he had. The team is not offensive, nor quick, nor able to play a more puck possession style. We bring in a new coach and make virtually no roster adjustments and expect these same guys to now play a puck possession game that requires, as far as I can tell, speed and quickness to do well. Is anyone shocked that this is a recipe for a rough start? Many of the guys on this team are not fast enough to get to loose pucks( an important part to getting the puck) nor are they skilled enough to keep the puck once they have it.

Beyond that though, why we keep playing guys like Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle and Arron Asham are beyond me. None of them can skate well enough to play this style nor are they particularly good at any of the intangible parts of hockey,( grit, team chemistry etc.). Simply put, they waste roster spots with no upside at all. Guys like Dom Moore are valuable compared to these guys because at least Moore wins face offs. I'm completely at a loss as to why we don't give guys like Krieder and Miller and Kristo these same roster spots currently occupied by over the hills or never was players. At least Miller and Krieder and Kristo have not yet proven they can't play. Does anyone honestly need to see Boyle or Asham or Pyatt play again to know they can't get it done? If ever there was a chance to give the new guys a shot it is now. If everyone is learning the new system Boyle and Pyatt and Asham can't even use the "experience" or "trustworthy" or "veteran" card. They are just as clueless as the less experienced guys.

100 percent agree with you on the part where Boyle, Pyatt and a few others don't have the skill-set to play AV's System.

The part of letting Miller and Kreider play in those spots with the thinking of "Well if they were in these games would the outcomes have been worse". Im on the fence about that. On one hand i feel like letting them play in the AHL and develop is the right thing to do. On the other i want them on this team playing and getting experience at the nhl level and learning the system first hand.

I think we might see the kids up here sometime this season replacing guys like Boyle and Pyatt.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:36 PM
  #243
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As has been said in every one of these threads we've had for the last... is it 4 years in a row now?... no team is ever as bad as they are when they're in a slump and no team is ever as good as it is when it's hot.

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:55 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
100 percent agree with you on the part where Boyle, Pyatt and a few others don't have the skill-set to play AV's System.

The part of letting Miller and Kreider play in those spots with the thinking of "Well if they were in these games would the outcomes have been worse". Im on the fence about that. On one hand i feel like letting them play in the AHL and develop is the right thing to do. On the other i want them on this team playing and getting experience at the nhl level and learning the system first hand.

I think we might see the kids up here sometime this season replacing guys like Boyle and Pyatt.
Well Miller and Kreider are needs, but bringing them up in this state of affairs is not a good thing for a kid to go through. I am expecting a physical beat down against St. Louis. AV strikes me as a very smart gentlemen, and I'm sure he'll do what he can to win games. But the game is played a certain way by a lot of teams that may not have talented puckhandlers, and I count 5 forwards he ices that are terrible in their roles in matching up.

Pouliot as a scorer, net front presence.
Pyatt in any shutdown capacity
Asham as a deterrent
Dorsett as a deterrent
Moore as a checking line presence against size

Can't win with these guys seeing the minutes they do. AV is big on roles, and when a roster is packed with guys outclassed in their roles, it usually means a lottery ticket towards the top pick.

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10-11-2013, 06:55 PM
  #245
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Call me crazy, but this team hasnt been the same since Brandon Prust left.

It sounds silly because I am talking about a role player, but he filled roles that changed the identity of this team when he left.

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10-11-2013, 06:59 PM
  #246
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Call me crazy, but this team hasnt been the same since Brandon Prust left.

It sounds silly because I am talking about a role player, but he filled roles that changed the identity of this team when he left.
Oh he was the glue that held it together. He was a leader in that locker room, a heart and soul guy and one that wasn't replaced. With him, Cally, and Dubi out there, you knew that there was a Ranger going all out no matter what.

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10-11-2013, 07:01 PM
  #247
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uh just for the record

Nash > Sharp and possibly Hossa
Stepan > Marchand
Callahan and Stepan > Franzen (why did you even list him?)
For the record we lack the potent depth those teams have. As far as the bottom 6 - if your top 6 is solid in terms of its depth the rest of the chips will fall into place when it comes to the bottom 6.

We have a good top 6 but it's not as potent as other teams.

Chi, Det. Pit, Bos all have more firepower in their top 6 allowing other players to fall into their rightful roles.

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10-11-2013, 08:11 PM
  #248
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In a vacuum, I'd tend to agree. The fact that we imported perennial losers from the worst team in the league is starting to show.
What is with this Nash being a "perennial loser" thing? Some people are acting like it's his fault that the Blue Jackets sucked as bad as they did. I've seen calling him a "born loser" and stuff like that... don't you think that's a little ridiculous? There's no such thing as a "born loser" in my eyes... you're either on a team that can contend or you're not. Let's not forget that Nash is an Olympic Gold Medalist.. just with that he's won more than Arty/Dubi. I mean if you're going to call people "perennial losers" you might as well say we exported perennial losers in Arty/Dubi for another perennial loser in Nash. That would be fair lol.

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10-11-2013, 08:13 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by bscharf View Post
Call me crazy, but this team hasnt been the same since Brandon Prust left.

It sounds silly because I am talking about a role player, but he filled roles that changed the identity of this team when he left.
Dubi was more important in that regard than Prust was because he could do the same things Prust did with a little added offensive capability as well.

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Old
10-11-2013, 08:46 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Does this team have five 20-goal scores on it? I mean, five guys you'd bet the farm will hit 20 this year?
Bet the farm? Callahan and Nash. That's it.

DING DING DING BEE-DO BEE-DO THIS IS A PROBLEM SLATS!!!

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