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Fri., Oct. 11 2013|Coyotes 2 at Flyers 1

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Old
10-11-2013, 09:49 PM
  #151
hockeyfreak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm not sure we're watching the same Couturier. The Couturier I've seen has been an integral part of his line being our one line that consistently keeps the puck in the offensive zone and produces shooting opportunities. He looks like he has a confidence problem, not an effort problem like Zibanejad.

He's also our best FO guy at 57%, a HUGE improvement so far. He's looked better overall than last year. So sending him down to punish him not only makes no sense but would be of no benefit to him or the team.
Yeah, it really does seem like we're watching two different players.

On my screen, he hasn't been an integral part of anything. Yes, he's given us good defensive play, but once we get control of the puck, you can expect him to make a sloppy play with it that leads to a broken rush or chance, and a turn over going back the other way.

But on top of that, when we do have possession in the offensive zone, I don't see him working hard with the puck on his stick. It's quite an odd problem; most players have the opposite issue. But for Couturier, he's not willing to drive the net with the puck or carry it into dirty areas in order to make the play. He is much too content making a soft dump into the corner instead of sacrificing in order to make a play with it.

I think it's both a confidence and a competitiveness problem.

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10-11-2013, 09:55 PM
  #152
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It's depressing watching other games. Seeing two teams that actually look like they play in the NHL.

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10-11-2013, 09:58 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
We've noticed the same stuff you have. Just feel bad you were at the game.

The sayings of casual fans at games amuse me. Sometimes they can piss you off but for the most part it's funny how much they think they know when they don't.
Yeah. My streak of 8 losses going back to Primeau era continues.

I've been trying to wrap my head around why they're so bad. The best I've come up with steals from an idea from Nietzsche: That some would rather have void as purpose than be devoid of purpose. In relation to the Flyers:

They'd rather have bad hockey for a system than be devoid of hockey. (I admit, it's not perfect.)

How long will it take for them to adapt to the new system, gel / find chemistry (successfully passing would be a start)?

A week? A month? Half a season? The entire year?

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10-11-2013, 10:00 PM
  #154
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This team is not making the playoffs. I guess I just hope my Pistons play well after their big off season.

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10-11-2013, 10:00 PM
  #155
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I went to the game, expecting them to Release the Kraken, and they did absolutely nothing remotely entertaining.

It's unbelievable how boring they've been so far this season.

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Old
10-11-2013, 10:11 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
He , Brayden, and Hartnell worked out all summer long with weber. Something the schenns do every summer.
Yes and their workouts are essentially Strong Man workouts. They aren't hockey workouts. Remember the year we got L. Schenn and everyone was calling him fatty and commenting how slow he was? How little ice time he was getting cause he had no stamina? In the offseason he, with Weber, tried putting on tons of muscle. Schenn tried to bulk up too fast, ended up totally immobilizing himself. Everyone was taking pot shots at his new weight, something like 20lbs heavier. He wasn't fat, he was bulked, like a professional weight lifter.

At the time I made reference to Tyson post prison - in prison he put on tons of muscle mass and weight, took him years to actually get like 1/4 of his prime speed and dexterity back because all of his muscle memory and and everything was entirely shot. It is entirely plausible Schenn did the same exact thing AGAIN this year and is sluggish now. Dude can probably bench a car from the Weber Man of Iron Resort, but it's gonna affect his game.

They mentioned Hartnell losing tons of body fat. Something insane like 7% less than what his normal conditioning shape is? That's ridiculous. That's proof again Weber's little resort work out isn't some hockey squad, it's full blown professional body building camp. It works for Weber, but I think some of these other guys are maybe doing the wrong thing there. Like it is going to their head, as it definitely a psychological thing- Keep adding more and more and more weight, give me more and more protein... more weights now! Soon enough you have entirely different body that you have never controlled before. Its not a secret Tiger Woods' swing changed when he started doing Olympic dynamic lifts with Navy SEAL training squads. He no longer knew how to work his body.

Is it happening again with Luke? It definitely did the one year. Maybe Schenn just really likes body building.

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10-11-2013, 10:13 PM
  #157
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This team is just bad. It looks like the entire forward corps is completely uninterested in playing the game. None of these players look like the players they were 2 seasons ago, or even last season.

Completely uninspired, desynchronized and just plain bad.

I can't even tell what the issue is, that's how bad this is. I literally can't remember a single good play by anyone on the ice tonight except by mason.

Giroux is apparently gone now.

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10-11-2013, 10:13 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Sorry, I haven't read the thread, but I went to the game, had seats with great vision.

Man, this team is bad right now. It has zero chemistry. It was around 2:30 left in the 2nd period before they created a legitimate, knockdown, drag out, scoring chance. They had "shots" on net. Rinaldo's penalties were momentum killers.

These guys are all playing their own game out there. Passing to guys going left instead of right-- it's just bad hockey.

Couturier appears to have diddly for offensive firepower. He faked a shot and the defender didn't have a sniff of fear about it.

The best moment of the game was when I said: "Don't take a penalty right now or the game is over." Tick. Tick. Tick. Mez. The fan next to me laughed at me and groaned.

The fans were awesome tonight (they're usually quiet) and didn't deserve this. A lot of them don't know much about hockey.

"Quick would have let that one in!!!" (Bryz)
"High sticking penalty!!!!!!! 2 minutes!!" (Puck played with a high stick)

Etc. Kind of cute, really.
I was there too. The guy sitting behind me was probably the least intelligent person I have ever heard at a game. He spent the whole time complaining, mostly about the Carter and Richards trades.

The greatest thing he said: "Man, Hartnell sucks. They should've bought him out and kept Briere instead."

I think he even suggested trading Giroux "while he still has value". Some fans...

Anyway, pretty depressing game. I thought they improved a little bit from the past couple of games, but they were still pretty bad. Hope it's just growing pains in the new system.

Oh and Mason is amazing. I really hope he can keep his play up.

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Old
10-11-2013, 10:17 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Sorry, I haven't read the thread, but I went to the game, had seats with great vision.

Man, this team is bad right now. It has zero chemistry. It was around 2:30 left in the 2nd period before they created a legitimate, knockdown, drag out, scoring chance. They had "shots" on net. Rinaldo's penalties were momentum killers.

These guys are all playing their own game out there. Passing to guys going left instead of right-- it's just bad hockey.

Couturier appears to have diddly for offensive firepower. He faked a shot and the defender didn't have a sniff of fear about it.

The best moment of the game was when I said: "Don't take a penalty right now or the game is over." Tick. Tick. Tick. Mez. The fan next to me laughed at me and groaned.

The fans were awesome tonight (they're usually quiet) and didn't deserve this. A lot of them don't know much about hockey.

"Quick would have let that one in!!!" (Bryz)
"High sticking penalty!!!!!!! 2 minutes!!" (Puck played with a high stick)

Etc. Kind of cute, really.
How the hell does anyone mix up Quick with Bryz?

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Old
10-11-2013, 10:22 PM
  #160
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eh.. the person probably really meant Quick.

he let in a full length goal against the Rangers which was probably what he was referring to

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10-11-2013, 10:38 PM
  #161
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Totally uninspired, undisciplined play. Terrible penalties, and just a lackluster performance all around. I suppose a big trade will come soon, they need to find a top 6 sniper somehow. Or maybe just be mediocre until the trade deadline when they can move some old guys/sackful guys and gather more picks for the 2014 draft. The only positive to this mess is getting a high pick for next year, which is fate since the draft is in Philly.

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10-11-2013, 11:01 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by F L Y E R S View Post
I went to the game, expecting them to Release the Kraken, and they did absolutely nothing remotely entertaining.

It's unbelievable how boring they've been so far this season.
The Kraken has been shot and put to rest in place of Rosehill.

Anyone know where I put in an application to be on the Flyers? The qualifications seem pretty low while the job security, pay, and benefits all seem excellent.

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10-11-2013, 11:37 PM
  #163
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I haven't seen a single game this season

From what I understand Mason has been excellent while everything else has been ass.

Fair assessment?

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10-11-2013, 11:40 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
I haven't seen a single game this season

From what I understand Mason has been excellent while everything else has been ass.

Fair assessment?
Very fair assessment.

Basically, you should be happy you haven't seen a single game this season. PK has completely gone bizarro world on us in that it sucks ass completely. Scoring one goal a game and the goal usually comes from a guy we don't rely on for goals at all. Last couple of games Rinaldo and Rosehill have gone full retard with penalties. Defensive assignments have been cleared up a bit but were **** prior to Berube but now instead of that we have a complete lack of coordination between players. Even our PK is mediocre (not anything special either way).

So, yes, ass. Except Mason.

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10-11-2013, 11:48 PM
  #165
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You are utterly clueless if you think demoting Couturier would help him or the team.
Let me preface this by saying I missed the game tonight and am planning on watching the replay right now but I really don't understand why some people are criticizing Couturier this season. I'm one of his biggest skeptics and I think he's been quite good even offensively this season. Maybe he just looks good because no one else on the team is creating chances but his possession skills in the offensive zone have looked great.

I don't get why people come into this thread to complain about Couturier and Schenn when they're out scoring both of our leading scorers from last season. Sure they're not putting up huge numbers but the entire team only has 6 goals.

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10-12-2013, 12:04 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Yeah, it really does seem like we're watching two different players.

On my screen, he hasn't been an integral part of anything. Yes, he's given us good defensive play, but once we get control of the puck, you can expect him to make a sloppy play with it that leads to a broken rush or chance, and a turn over going back the other way.

But on top of that, when we do have possession in the offensive zone, I don't see him working hard with the puck on his stick. It's quite an odd problem; most players have the opposite issue. But for Couturier, he's not willing to drive the net with the puck or carry it into dirty areas in order to make the play. He is much too content making a soft dump into the corner instead of sacrificing in order to make a play with it.

I think it's both a confidence and a competitiveness problem.
I'm with you on this one. Couturier is simply not assertive enough. He's soft on the puck and his decision making is slow.

Also, I like Simmonds, but he should not be on the top line. They need a player that can carrry/handle the puck and make plays with it; there's too few of those kinds of players on the Flyers, in my opinion.

Now, besides this negative stuff, I thought this was probably their best game this season (not saying much, I know). Not too many defensive breakdowns, they caused some turnovers in the offensive zone, had good opportunities to score, and for some of the game their breakouts were much better. I see improvement.

Penalties, bad powerplay, and not finishing scoring chances is why I thought they lost this one.

Also, the Devils lost again and the Penguins lost to the only team the Flyers have beaten (Panthers), so that's a positive from tonight.

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Old
10-12-2013, 12:08 AM
  #167
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So now that we finally have a goalie that's stopping the puck...

Our team can't score.

It's sad saying that I'm almost starting to expect this. If it's not one thing, it's the other. I remember last year Marleau and Thornton started out red hot with something like 15 points in their first 5-6 games. Our guys better be planning on doing the opposite and blowing up soon.

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10-12-2013, 12:11 AM
  #168
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This team is putrid right now...no way they make the playoffs with this crappy play. Holmgren has an ill assembled team ...massive fail.

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10-12-2013, 12:15 AM
  #169
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now that they are getting really solid goaltending they couldnt find the side of the barn if they were standing right in front of it.
6 goals in 5 games and if it wasnt for the gifts from Thomas they would be 0-5 with 4 goals scored.
WTF

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10-12-2013, 12:19 AM
  #170
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Why is this team so mental?

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10-12-2013, 12:19 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
I haven't seen a single game this season

From what I understand Mason has been excellent while everything else has been ass.

Fair assessment?
bingo. I am glad I didnt order NHL Center Ice. I got to watch Sundays game from the free preview.
Holmgren isnt going to get fired either. He will "step aside" whenever the **** that is.
This is a very poor assembled team.
Looking like a very poor decision to send down Laughton so quick now.
I guess Akeson and Raffl will be recalled unless they stick that idiot Newbury in which will really cause me to lose my mind.

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10-12-2013, 12:27 AM
  #172
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Let me preface this by saying I missed the game tonight and am planning on watching the replay right now but I really don't understand why some people are criticizing Couturier this season. I'm one of his biggest skeptics and I think he's been quite good even offensively this season. Maybe he just looks good because no one else on the team is creating chances but his possession skills in the offensive zone have looked great.

I don't get why people come into this thread to complain about Couturier and Schenn when they're out scoring both of our leading scorers from last season. Sure they're not putting up huge numbers but the entire team only has 6 goals.
Well, let me preface this by saying I've been massively supportive of Couturier for the past two seasons and still consider myself a big Couturier supporter.

However, I've seen absolutely no growth in Couturier's offensive game in his two years as a Flyer, and I actually see regression in his game in the five games we've seen this season (but apparently that's just me...). I've always given him the benefit of the doubt because he was used in the most difficult of situations, but his issues are becoming more and more frustrating to watch at this point. He hates handling the puck. For whatever reason, he never seems to be interested in doing what it takes to make a play with it. His composure is nonexistent. He reads the play so damn well, but for whatever reason, his ability to read other players disappears when the puck finds its way on his stick. He just wants to pawn the puck off to someone else rather than make a play himself, and he's more interested in not turning it over than he is in actually making something happen with it.

Perhaps I was too critical in calling it a compete issue earlier. But he certainly doesn't have the killer instinct (yet) that I expect a promising player to have. He's essentially the anti-Radulov. He's too safe and cautious, and while that is absolutely a great quality to have in the D zone, it is also a curse for generating offense on the other half of the ice. Maybe it is all just confidence (which is certainly a part of it), but I think confidence and competitiveness are at least related on some level, and I am disappointed that Couturier has not been able to add another dimension to his game by developing that killer instinct. I have chalked it up to linemates and situational ice time in the past, but (based on this small sample size this season) I think there is a deeper issue.

I truly wouldn't mind lighting a fire under him by giving him some AHL time if his play continues at this level. He's a better player than what he's shown, and I don't want him to get complacent which I think is what's happening right now. With Lecavalier out, he'll have every opportunity to step up, and no one on this team (save for Giroux) should be hungrier than Couturier right now.

The kid better recognize that this is his opportunity to step forward. If we don't see him compete like crazy in the next week, I'll be massively disappointed in him for not meeting the challenge when it's being served on a platter.


And just as a side note, none of this changes my opinion of Couturier's potential. I am still as high on him as ever, just a little disappointed in the lack of growth in his game to this point. He's still just 20. He obviously will get better, I just want to see him take charge of his future for once. We've seen B. Schenn step up and dominate games at times. JVR was able to dominate games as well. But we've never seen Couturier step up and take charge of a contest. I want to see that happen even if it takes years for him to harness that potential with consistency.

EDIT: And I agree, if Newbury is in tomorrow's lineup, I am going to blow up. The call ups better be any two of Cousins, Akeson, or Raffl. I'd prefer all three and to just boot Rosehill to the South Pole, but that's a lot to ask.


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10-12-2013, 12:54 AM
  #173
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Newbury, Rosehill and Rinaldo in the lineup would be mind blowingly stupid.

i am not a fan of having 2 of them in the lineup. but 3? **** that.

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10-12-2013, 12:57 AM
  #174
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Yes and their workouts are essentially Strong Man workouts. They aren't hockey workouts. Remember the year we got L. Schenn and everyone was calling him fatty and commenting how slow he was? How little ice time he was getting cause he had no stamina? In the offseason he, with Weber, tried putting on tons of muscle. Schenn tried to bulk up too fast, ended up totally immobilizing himself. Everyone was taking pot shots at his new weight, something like 20lbs heavier. He wasn't fat, he was bulked, like a professional weight lifter.

At the time I made reference to Tyson post prison - in prison he put on tons of muscle mass and weight, took him years to actually get like 1/4 of his prime speed and dexterity back because all of his muscle memory and and everything was entirely shot. It is entirely plausible Schenn did the same exact thing AGAIN this year and is sluggish now. Dude can probably bench a car from the Weber Man of Iron Resort, but it's gonna affect his game.

They mentioned Hartnell losing tons of body fat. Something insane like 7% less than what his normal conditioning shape is? That's ridiculous. That's proof again Weber's little resort work out isn't some hockey squad, it's full blown professional body building camp. It works for Weber, but I think some of these other guys are maybe doing the wrong thing there. Like it is going to their head, as it definitely a psychological thing- Keep adding more and more and more weight, give me more and more protein... more weights now! Soon enough you have entirely different body that you have never controlled before. Its not a secret Tiger Woods' swing changed when he started doing Olympic dynamic lifts with Navy SEAL training squads. He no longer knew how to work his body.

Is it happening again with Luke? It definitely did the one year. Maybe Schenn just really likes body building.
you can't bodybuild and be a hockey player at the same time. It is physically impossible. We don't know what they do to workout but we do know that they are dedicated to their offseason workouts and that is enough for me to trust that they are doing hockey related workouts.

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10-12-2013, 02:12 AM
  #175
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Well, let me preface this by saying I've been massively supportive of Couturier for the past two seasons and still consider myself a big Couturier supporter.

However, I've seen absolutely no growth in Couturier's offensive game in his two years as a Flyer, and I actually see regression in his game in the five games we've seen this season (but apparently that's just me...). I've always given him the benefit of the doubt because he was used in the most difficult of situations, but his issues are becoming more and more frustrating to watch at this point. He hates handling the puck. For whatever reason, he never seems to be interested in doing what it takes to make a play with it. His composure is nonexistent. He reads the play so damn well, but for whatever reason, his ability to read other players disappears when the puck finds its way on his stick. He just wants to pawn the puck off to someone else rather than make a play himself, and he's more interested in not turning it over than he is in actually making something happen with it.

Perhaps I was too critical in calling it a compete issue earlier. But he certainly doesn't have the killer instinct (yet) that I expect a promising player to have. He's essentially the anti-Radulov. He's too safe and cautious, and while that is absolutely a great quality to have in the D zone, it is also a curse for generating offense on the other half of the ice. Maybe it is all just confidence (which is certainly a part of it), but I think confidence and competitiveness are at least related on some level, and I am disappointed that Couturier has not been able to add another dimension to his game by developing that killer instinct. I have chalked it up to linemates and situational ice time in the past, but (based on this small sample size this season) I think there is a deeper issue.

I truly wouldn't mind lighting a fire under him by giving him some AHL time if his play continues at this level. He's a better player than what he's shown, and I don't want him to get complacent which I think is what's happening right now. With Lecavalier out, he'll have every opportunity to step up, and no one on this team (save for Giroux) should be hungrier than Couturier right now.

The kid better recognize that this is his opportunity to step forward. If we don't see him compete like crazy in the next week, I'll be massively disappointed in him for not meeting the challenge when it's being served on a platter.


And just as a side note, none of this changes my opinion of Couturier's potential. I am still as high on him as ever, just a little disappointed in the lack of growth in his game to this point. He's still just 20. He obviously will get better, I just want to see him take charge of his future for once. We've seen B. Schenn step up and dominate games at times. JVR was able to dominate games as well. But we've never seen Couturier step up and take charge of a contest. I want to see that happen even if it takes years for him to harness that potential with consistency.

EDIT: And I agree, if Newbury is in tomorrow's lineup, I am going to blow up. The call ups better be any two of Cousins, Akeson, or Raffl. I'd prefer all three and to just boot Rosehill to the South Pole, but that's a lot to ask.
Honestly, I think we saw a regression in his offensive aggression under Lavi last year. Going into March he basically gave up on offense and focused all on D. I personally don't think that mindset requires an AHL stint to fix...some good coaching should be able to do it.

On top of that, he's been ridiculous on FOs so far, including offensive zone draws...which he's getting consistently for the first time ever. That alone is a skill I'd rather not lose, especially when combined with his defensive impact.

You may be seeing nothing special in the D-zone, if I remember you posts correctly, but I'm seeing a guy who is clogging passing lanes and getting the puck the hell out immediately once he gets it, and establising an offensive zone presence. With Lecav missing a week at minimum Philly cannot afford to send that skillset down right now. Just have to hope he gets confidence.

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