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Fire AV, Fire Sather. This is a bad hockey team.

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Old
10-11-2013, 08:47 PM
  #251
haveandare
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Come on RB, you think there's any chance hitch would say something like, "Yeah the Rangers suck this year, they can't play the way AV is telling them to, they don't have the skill for it."? I wouldn't put a whole lot into coachspeak.
I'd put a lot of faith into the thoughts of an actual expert.

Hitch could have said something like, "They look like they've been struggling a bit so far, and we feel that we've had a good start. I think this is a good matchup for us." And said, in less words, "this Rangers team is doomed and we're confident we can smack them around." But he didn't. He said that the team has been playing terribly in some terrible circumstances and they may turn it around as soon as next game.

Dismiss it as "coachspeak" if you want, but I put more stock into the thoughts of an NHL coach over those of an internet group that is partial to knee-jerk pessimism.

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10-11-2013, 08:52 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by JHS View Post
Hey guys first time poster here but long time reader. This has probably been said already so forgive me if it has but honestly I doubt AV is any problem at all. It's not like he forgot to coach over the summer. The issue as I see it, is a miss match of coach to team. Torts, for all his flaws coached to the roster he had. The team is not offensive, nor quick, nor able to play a more puck possession style. We bring in a new coach and make virtually no roster adjustments and expect these same guys to now play a puck possession game that requires, as far as I can tell, speed and quickness to do well. Is anyone shocked that this is a recipe for a rough start? Many of the guys on this team are not fast enough to get to loose pucks( an important part to getting the puck) nor are they skilled enough to keep the puck once they have it.

Beyond that though, why we keep playing guys like Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle and Arron Asham are beyond me. None of them can skate well enough to play this style nor are they particularly good at any of the intangible parts of hockey,( grit, team chemistry etc.). Simply put, they waste roster spots with no upside at all. Guys like Dom Moore are valuable compared to these guys because at least Moore wins face offs. I'm completely at a loss as to why we don't give guys like Krieder and Miller and Kristo these same roster spots currently occupied by over the hills or never was players. At least Miller and Krieder and Kristo have not yet proven they can't play. Does anyone honestly need to see Boyle or Asham or Pyatt play again to know they can't get it done? If ever there was a chance to give the new guys a shot it is now. If everyone is learning the new system Boyle and Pyatt and Asham can't even use the "experience" or "trustworthy" or "veteran" card. They are just as clueless as the less experienced guys.
I agree. Further proof will be when Hagelin comes back, Fast (someone who actually can play this system) will be sent down instead of Pyatt taking a seat.

Miller wasn't given much of a shot. He played well in two pre-season games. but gets sent down after one.

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Old
10-11-2013, 09:02 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
so Dubi and Artie were more important because they were homegrown? And that should make them more off limits? Jesus ****ing christ I don't understand. Sure, chemistry is important, that's a valid point. But it's not like we traded Hagelin and Callahan, or Stepan and McDonagh. We traded two marginal middle six tweeners for a goal scoring superstar, which every single ranger fan and their mother DEMANDED the summer of 2012. In a nutshell, I'd take 40 more goals over 25 goals and being homegrown 10/10. It's easy to be irritated at this trade in hindsight (I'm still not), but if you tell me you didn't bounce off the walls reading "confirmed with link" I just think you're lying.
I hated the Nash trade from day one. Like every Rangers fan (who either wanted the trade or didn't), once the trade was made I was fully supportive of Nash and hoped it worked out well. And I still do, because I'm a Rangers fan and want the team to do well. But I absolutely wanted to keep Dubinsky and Anisimov prior to the trade. Maybe I'm stupid for taking that mindset, but for once we had a homegrown group of guys who had great chemistry and all bought into the team, the system, and the heritage. After watching guys like Maclean, Driver, Stevens, Holik, Kamensky, Lindros, Malakhov, Gusarov, Berard, Carter, etc. for so many years...it was so refreshing to have that homegrown talent.

While Nash is certainly better than Dubinsky+Anisimov in a vacuum, I just feel like the trade wasn't as simple as that. We lost a lot of defense and effort (which doesn't show up on the stat sheet). And we lost a big part of our identity.

Also, under no circumstances is Dubinsky a marginal top-six player. He had one bad season in his career where he failed to improve on the year before. All things considered, he's good for 40-50 points.


Last edited by mrhockey193195: 10-11-2013 at 09:09 PM.
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Old
10-11-2013, 09:43 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I'd put a lot of faith into the thoughts of an actual expert.

Hitch could have said something like, "They look like they've been struggling a bit so far, and we feel that we've had a good start. I think this is a good matchup for us." And said, in less words, "this Rangers team is doomed and we're confident we can smack them around." But he didn't. He said that the team has been playing terribly in some terrible circumstances and they may turn it around as soon as next game.

Dismiss it as "coachspeak" if you want, but I put more stock into the thoughts of an NHL coach over those of an internet group that is partial to knee-jerk pessimism.
In my opinion that is a textbook example of making sure your team doesn't overlook an opponent.

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Old
10-11-2013, 10:00 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
In my opinion that is a textbook example of making sure your team doesn't overlook an opponent.
My point is that he wouldn't even be worried about overlooking a team as bad as some posters are convinced this team is and will be all season.

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10-11-2013, 10:05 PM
  #256
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The Rangers severely lack size and shooting ability in their top-6. The only big player/shooter in the top-6 is Nash, and I wouldn't even call Nash a sniper. Kreider will hopefully help in the next year or two, and I like Miller as the team's future 2C, but they still need to add a shooter to their top-6.

xxxx-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Miller-Zuccarello (eh, I like Zuccarello and think he'd be putting up points with players who can finish)

This is obviously moving forward. Get a decent sized LW in the draft or move DZ/Girardi for one.

Their bottom-6 is also a mish mash of journeymen, basically. Only players I'd really like to keep in the bottom-6 at this point are Dorsett and Hagelin (not a bottom-6er now, but if the team is built correctly over the next few years (LOL), then that'll hopefully come to fruition).

McIlrath coming up will help toughen the D. The Rangers would still need a top pairing righty moving forward, though.

Honestly, it's early, but I'm starting to side with the people who are ripping into the forwards. I didn't think they'd be this bad...they look like a joke out there. Only players I really want to keep up front are Stepan, Nash, Hagelin, and Dorsett, although I still like Zuccarello/Brassard...that being said, they are redundant if they're both going to be on the second line. I'd rather keep Zuccarello. Ditch the rest.

On D, keep Staal, McDonagh, and Moore.

I think this team has a lot of good pieces coming through the minors, and I really like Stepan. Still a huge piece of this team moving forward. Pretty much the only young 1st liner they realistically have. The "old core", for the most part, should be moved. Yes, that includes Lundqvist, Callahan, and Girardi. They can't re-sign them all, they should move them for young players and picks, re-tool through the draft. Don't think having Lundqvist at the salary he'll want is cost effective, either. Hopefully if this team misses the playoffs, Sather will FINALLY step down and hand the reigns to Gorton. Would feel a lot, lot more comfortable going through an overhaul under him, because Sather has had enough ****ing chances at overhauls.

This is me, four games in, though. This could look stupid in a couple weeks, but I'm really not feeling it this year, and I'm generally as big of an optimist as they come.

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Old
10-11-2013, 10:28 PM
  #257
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There is no need to tear it down right now. 4 games in and people talk rebuild it? There are THREE things that should help fix this mess right now.

1. Patience: Nash is now hurt. No Hagelin yet. Cally just came back. Stepan has played 4 games, not 100% ready for games yet and is a slight step behind. We are right now playing one of Pyatt or Boyle in the top 6. That will not continue. I think right now, we need to remain patient and try and battle through this. I think we start seeing changes after tomorrow.

2. The Kids. They are nearly ready. Kreider looks good. So does Miller. Kristo got cut early and his play in the AHL shows a guy that is angry at that. Lindberg has been solid. Hrivik has not, but that's fine as the others look to be there. I honestly feel AV is feeling out some players, (Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett, Moore, Asham) to see if they are capable of playing the system. The training camp was not enough to see them. Also, they stayed to get an extra look IMO. You can demote the kids and call the back up if the vets are not able. You start with the kids and there is no return as you may lose the vets to waivers.

I feel AV respects the vets and wants to give them a chance to prove themselves. It is not working right now.

3. Time. An adjustment was going to take place and nobody thought this would be happening, but I think everything is snowballing on this. 4 games is nothing compared to the entire season. We have 1-3 stretch in games 45-49 and get blown out and there is nothing like this going on. Take it in stride as a fan. Look at the division and nobody is killing it. If this is 15 games in and still happening, call me concerned. Right now, lets weed out the Pyatt's and Asham's from the line-up.

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10-11-2013, 10:34 PM
  #258
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Old
10-12-2013, 12:20 AM
  #259
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Canuck fan coming in peace...AV coached basically an injury ridden, AHL-caliber team in Montreal to narrowly avoiding the playoffs. He nearly won a Jack Adams for it. New York definitely has a better squad than that Montreal team of journeymen, so I wouldn't be too worried.

That being said, as a Canucks fan, the one thing I would be concerned, if New York suddenly became my team, is the fact that AV has trouble adjusting. Last season the Canucks consistently had trouble moving the puck out of their own end and entering the zone. With the talent the Canucks had on defense and forward, this shouldn't have been such a glaringly obvious problem, but it was. All season long. And it was noticeable by fans like me, not by hockey minds that make their living coaching the stuff.

He IS a good coach, but will make the adjustments a week or two later than you may like to see.
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I just gave a mottled assessment of AV. That's kind of what it is. I think if he can adjust to the 2006-2007 AV, the one where Luongo played like a God (nearly won a Hart and a Vezina for it) and we basically played defensive hockey, I don't think there should be a problem in your W/L column.

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Old
10-12-2013, 01:35 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
There is no need to tear it down right now. 4 games in and people talk rebuild it? There are THREE things that should help fix this mess right now.

1. Patience: Nash is now hurt. No Hagelin yet. Cally just came back. Stepan has played 4 games, not 100% ready for games yet and is a slight step behind. We are right now playing one of Pyatt or Boyle in the top 6. That will not continue. I think right now, we need to remain patient and try and battle through this. I think we start seeing changes after tomorrow.

2. The Kids. They are nearly ready. Kreider looks good. So does Miller. Kristo got cut early and his play in the AHL shows a guy that is angry at that. Lindberg has been solid. Hrivik has not, but that's fine as the others look to be there. I honestly feel AV is feeling out some players, (Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett, Moore, Asham) to see if they are capable of playing the system. The training camp was not enough to see them. Also, they stayed to get an extra look IMO. You can demote the kids and call the back up if the vets are not able. You start with the kids and there is no return as you may lose the vets to waivers.

I feel AV respects the vets and wants to give them a chance to prove themselves. It is not working right now.

3. Time. An adjustment was going to take place and nobody thought this would be happening, but I think everything is snowballing on this. 4 games is nothing compared to the entire season. We have 1-3 stretch in games 45-49 and get blown out and there is nothing like this going on. Take it in stride as a fan. Look at the division and nobody is killing it. If this is 15 games in and still happening, call me concerned. Right now, lets weed out the Pyatt's and Asham's from the line-up.
I get what you are saying but the deal is us fans have watched these guys like Boyle and Pyatt and Asham for a while now- we know what they have, next to nothing. The mear fact that they are on the roster, let alone in the top 6 is absurd. I can't believe it is taking an NHL coach 2 months to see these guys can't hack it. He sees it, it's just clearly they don't have much else to turn to.

I'm wiling to give this team, as currently constructed another 5 games. What will really be the tipping point for me is when we see Hagelin return. If we still parade out these fairly useless hockey players while we have alternate options available, I'll really have to start thinking about who is in control of player personnel and who is actually making the final decisions about who plays each night( coach vs. gm.)

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Old
10-12-2013, 02:18 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
attention.. attention NYR fans.. i repeat NYR fans.. please back away from the ledge..

seriously.. we have a terrible schedule out of the gate.. a ****** pre season schedule.. and have key pieces out bc of injury, and make matters worse a coach who is new and doesn't/hasn't adjusted or knows his personel yet.. give it a month and a few home games.. stanley cup isn't won or lost first week of the season..

kings, pitt all won with poor opening stats.. they fired coaches, made trades and won a cup with all that **** going on in one season..

give it time boys.. no hope should be lost yet..
Agreed 100% never mind that throughout AVs time in Vancouver he was notorious for starting terrible and getting things turned around if they are still playing like this at thanksgiving then we can all jump...

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10-12-2013, 07:49 AM
  #262
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AV said veteran players get longer looks at the start of the season. He better close his eyes. Leave Kreider and Miller in the AHL. Let them play big minutes. Don't bring them up unless they're going to play a meaningful role on the team. Not on the fourth line one game and then a healthy scratch and then another minor league stint. The Rangers D all look the same. They're all really good players. They lack the offensive D. Olli Maata. He skates well. Leads the rush. Joins the rush. Goes to the net from his point position. The Rangers don't have a player like him. Nordstroms on Chicago. He doesn't have much AHL experience. He is in their bottom six. 3rd round pick from 2-3 years ago. He fits their mold. Not many free agents. 3 years for Rupp. Traded for Powe. 2 years for Asham and Pyatt. $1M for Moore. Boyle has a $1.7M cap hit. Waste of roster and cap space.

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10-12-2013, 07:58 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by NYR2047 View Post
Agreed 100% never mind that throughout AVs time in Vancouver he was notorious for starting terrible and getting things turned around if they are still playing like this at thanksgiving then we can all jump...
Never mind that the Rangers don't have the talent of those Kings, Penguins, or Nucks team.

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10-12-2013, 08:08 AM
  #264
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You don't make the playoffs in October, but you can certainly miss it. Teams that play a strong puck possession game have skill guys that can dominate with the puck on their sticks for 20+ minutes a night. Outside of Nash, Rangers have none.

Meanwhile WSH has OV, Green, Backstrom. OTT has Karlsson, Spezza, Ryan. Pit has Malkin, Letang, Crosby. Chi has Kane, Toews, Keith. AV had Edler and the Sedins in Van city, but the Rangers only have one guy that they can point to that has that elite level skill. These guys don't have the mits outside of 67-16-36, and none of those guys are top line guys that show up on the score sheet at a winning rate.

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10-12-2013, 08:13 AM
  #265
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Dice it and slice it anyway you want, it remains beyond refute that in a league defined by speed, size, and strength, our forwards currently on the roster and as a group are to slow, to small, and not physical enough.

That doesn't mean things won't get better, they will. Doesn't mean we won't adjust to AV's system, because we will. Doesn't mean we won't make the playoffs, because we might. Doesn't mean we can't win a playoff round or two, because we may.

What it does mean is that our current roster of forwards is out of step with trends in today's NHL. Our roster must, over the coming seasons, be adjusted so as to compete with the leagues more elite teams: teams that are faster, stronger, and bigger.

That is the big picture that must be addressed by our management team.

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10-12-2013, 08:39 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Never mind that the Rangers don't have the talent of those Kings, Penguins, or Nucks team.
its totally different why they dont have that talent.. all those teams beside nucks were lottery teams and had top 3 picks in multiple drafts.. boston as well had top 3 picks and built with trades.. i hate to say it but in order to win you got to suck and get those top picks for that top ed homegrown talent..

i would say we've been pretty successful with our picks, a lot are playing in the NHL.. but they are all above average players.. those teams had picks that those players are all-stars/legendary players..

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10-12-2013, 08:44 AM
  #267
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Pouliott needs to be viewed as a filler body in the lineup. There's a reason he never sticks on a team. So her Nash and hagelin are back sit the guy. The ufa bodies like him , Boyle and Pyatt. Even Asham and Moore need to do better or move them out

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10-12-2013, 09:31 AM
  #268
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Building a successful team, no matter what the sport, is an inexact science, to say the least. If it wasn't, we would have a league of absolute and total parity.

Stepping back and looking at the big picture: since the first lockout, the Ranger modus operandi has been to build a young core and once that core developed to supplement them with high end talent, even to sacrifice some of the young talent to bring in more experienced high end talent.

This is SOP in all sports and if you think of it, how the Yankees have been successful since the mid 1990s. It is not a bad philosophy.

We had our core and the high end talent that was supposed to bring us the Cup during a brief window (including last year) was Gaborik, Richards, and Nash. We brought in a coach, Renney, to stabilize the team after the lockout and then a coach, Torts, who everyone knew had a short shelf life but whose peak of influence would coincide with the window of talent the team had. I was never a Torts fan but I give him credit for creating a team that for an instant was more than the sum of its parts: hard working and hard nosed, never say die, blue collar work ethic, a team nobody wanted to play against.

What happened? Gabby, who I love, was inconsistent from year to year, and who clashed with the coach's philosophy. Whose fault was that? I blame Torts: you don't take a high end offensive talent and shackle him by stressing defense first.

Richards, who almost everyone here on the boards, including me, thought was an excellent signing and just what we needed, aged quickly and deteriorated far from his hoped for roll as a #1 center. Even though he appears to be better this year, he is still far from what he was and never will be again.

Nash was the ultimate gamble. The thought of Gabby, Richards, and Nash together was enticing to everyone and the trio would be the high ending grouping to deliver the Cup. We sacrificed two people from our core. We can argue all we want about the price we paid and I think the team misses Dubinsky more than it thought that it would, but it was the gamble we took. I gamble we perhaps had to take.

The lockout happened. Torts used up his shelf life. The group dynamic Torts created was not sustainable/

Coming into this year I was just not impressed with the talent level of our forwards: trying to look at it objectively, hard for any fan to do, I felt that we overvalued some of our forwards, in particular Stepan and Brassard. Good hockey players yes, but top end centers, no. I thought we were to small, to slow, and not physical enough. When camp opened, the most exciting part for me was to see which of our young forwards would win starting jobs on the top 9. None really did.

I thought what would save us was Henrik and our D. I am totally confused as to why our D seems so lost and helpless. Could they have been so robotisized by Torts that they can't think on the ice? Hard to believe that. Hard to believe that it is just system. I don't know what is going on here.

Where to go from here? Obviously, we are not this bad. But that doesn't mean we are any good. The whole disjointed training camp schedule, long road trip,etc hasn't helped. I expect things to get somewhat better but not appreciably so: we are still small, slow, and not fast in a league that values size, speed, and strength.

Our plan has not worked. Our young core has developed into some fine NHL players but there are no elite, high end players among our forwards.

Plans don't work in sports all the time. Failure is more common than success. Moves that look good at time backfire and when that happens everyone complains about a team being a collection of misplaced parts. Monday morning quarterbacking becomes common. The teams that can be competitive for a long time, like the Wings, and I hate to say it, the Devils, are the exceptions to the rules.

If things don't get better soon we need to jettison some of our dead wood players; guys who are slow and can't compete in today's league: Boyle, Pyatt, Asham, and Moore (nice story but does he have the talent anymore?)

We need to plug in our next wave of young players quickly: Hrvik, Kristo, Miller, Kreider, Lindberg. But the problem here is once again, there doesn't appear to be any high end potential here. I once thought Kreider might be an elite talent: he still may be but I have my doubts.

I don't see how we are going to contend for a Cup anytime soon. Distressing when you are almost 66 years old, have been a fan for over 50 years, and have seen one Cup. Teams are locking up their young players for their prime years and even with the cap going up in the next few years, signing high end free agents (who may or may not work out) may not be an option.

But, that is hockey and sports. You just never know what will happen to your best laid plans (see: Mets with Matt Harvey,Yankees a few years ago depending on Chamberlain, Hughes, and Kennedy, Mets of the 90s with Wilson, Isringhausen, and Pulsipher, Cubs with Kerry Wood and Pryor). You just don't know. I know all of these examples are injury related but just show how hard it is to build a team.

To be a life long sports fan means to deal with failure more than success.

These games have been horrible. As bad as I can ever remember. I'm not sure whether this team is capable of making the playoffs. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet but if this continues until Christmas, I say it's time to start again. By the way, Sather has long outlived his usefullness.
We had a very, very good core, starting from 05, when we had guys like Petr Prucha. We had a solid drafting system since we were able to develop Stepan, Del Zotto, Callahan, Dubinksy, Anisimov...

Also, take note that the above process of drafting homegrown talent takes years, probably 5-8 before you start to see results, winning results.

Answering against the bold, i think this is where people are going "wrong" with why we became so bad... It was not the Nash trade, it was not the Gabs trade, it was not Torts work attitude, and not because Richards started deteriorating.... it was ALL of those things occurring in the same offseason, which happened to be a lockout year... Granted, each of these things had their individual hurt that, in most circumstances, can be worked through with few hiccups. The issue became that we had to now deal with these 4 minor pitfalls simultaneously... That's like a person with cancer suddenly being diagnosed with MS, and then finding out your immune system is hardly functional... It takes a LONG, LONG time to recover from multiple wounds in a short amount of time

Lord knows we were on a good path, and we shed some core to get some additional offense... It WAS a gamble, a gamble that management was willing to take, and it partially worked... we finished slightly ahead of where we normally did in regular season, and made it to round 2 of the playoffs... However, after that, we realized that lost the gamble... That is when you started to see things fall apart.

The multiple wounds became too much to nurse, and now we are sick. We've tried several band aids to patch our way through (The gaborik trade was a bandaid to get into the playoffs in 12-13, because if it wasn't for Brass killing it and John Moore actually doing something on the powerplay before our lame playoff run, we would not have gotten in there). Unfortunately, band-aids fall off after a little while, and if the cut never healed, you're still wounded. That's what you see right now.

We have a new coach (or "doctor", if you will) that can help us heal these wounds, but it's going to take some different ingredients, and that's why NEXT offseason will be a serious turnover outside of our core players. AV will have a chance to build a new team, with new parts...
fact is, we probably won't see success out of the gate, it will take us several years. We differ from Vancouver because they already HAVE a talented squad. We lost our talent due to the above i just wrote. They're not going to have as many issues as we are because we really are at a crossroads

It's not hard to see why, because it's all of those things above occurring together... However, hindsight is always 20/20, just like business... Everything... literally EVERYTHING needs to go right in order to win. You'll never always be right, but as a person, GM, boss, etc, you have to make the effort to be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of those opportunities. We did in 11-12, and now that time is up. Time to start again.

In regards to this team right now, it'll get somewhere. I have a feeling we see some roster shakeup by december, which is fine with me, because our "new core" which seems to be thought of as Lindberg, Fast, Miller, Krieder, etc need some time to develop their own chemistry in the A. Once they do, they can come up as a collective line, and use their chemistry here. I suspect this is what AV will attempt to do.

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10-12-2013, 09:44 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Also: AV's system relies heavily on stretch passes and strong outlet passes from the defense. This really elevated Vancouver to elite status by having a good chunk of secondary scoring come from the D. It ended up being neutralized in the end because the West plays so much tighter than the East. This aspect will really benefit the Rangers once their passing is cleaned up. They will have to space to make these plays.
Just wanted to expand on this a little. Puck support was never really a strong point of AV's system and he often could afford to have his forwards blow the zone earlier because of a D who can move the puck. Breakouts and transitions all relied heavily on their ability to make good decisions and execute clean outlet passes. If that isn't a strength of the Rangers defence then I could see it being an issue.

Couple that with an unusually taxing system for D-men and they may struggle for a while but once they get it down they should be fine.

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Lastly, the only retractor I really have to say about Alain is, in the end, he played his team like he wanted them to play, not how they were built to. Gillis took a lot of flack for not providing him the tools he needed, and rightly so, but it is a two way street. Sather must make moves to acquire more skill players for your forward group and another defenseman with higher offensive capabilities. Gillis did do that with Garrison (booming shot) and Booth (injury prone) but unfortunately two 1st round exits don't allot you the leash to get another pass.
Also agree with this. He had a skill team in Vancouver and tried to make them play a grinding, dump-and-chase game in his last 1.5 years here. Works for some teams but not so much for others. It'll also be interesting to see if he retains his conservative style with a lead. Best of luck to you guys.

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10-12-2013, 10:48 AM
  #270
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I would be all in favor of a partial blowup to this team. Even when we're all healthy, we have ZERO chance of competing against the PITs, SJs, CHIs, BOSs of the league. Our forward core both on paper and on ice is atrocious. Utterly, completely, atrocious. With Skjei/Allen/McIlrath in the pipeline package Del Zotto for either a high end forward prospect/pick/roster player. Resign Lundqvist, build around him, Nash, Stepan and Brassard. Shed all the dead weight (Asham, Pyatt, Boyle, D. Moore) and let Miller and Kreider play.

I would absolutely be all for that. We may make the playoffs this year boys and we may even get past the first round but we ain't winning the cup with this roster, that I can guarantee you. Lets let the kids play, shed the dead weight and work for next year. This roster isn't going to get it done

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10-12-2013, 02:26 PM
  #271
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I get what you are saying but the deal is us fans have watched these guys like Boyle and Pyatt and Asham for a while now- we know what they have, next to nothing. The mear fact that they are on the roster, let alone in the top 6 is absurd. I can't believe it is taking an NHL coach 2 months to see these guys can't hack it. He sees it, it's just clearly they don't have much else to turn to.

I'm wiling to give this team, as currently constructed another 5 games. What will really be the tipping point for me is when we see Hagelin return. If we still parade out these fairly useless hockey players while we have alternate options available, I'll really have to start thinking about who is in control of player personnel and who is actually making the final decisions about who plays each night( coach vs. gm.)
Like I said above, I feel like this game, where they get 3 days away from games and time to practice will be the point we see the youngsters moving up to the NHL. AV knows Pyatt and is playing him more than he should, but what alternative is CURRENTLY in the NHL? Would you rather see Dom Moore, Asham, or Dorsett in the top 6? There are top 6 spots open currently. Bring up Kreider and Miller and see where it goes. Play them big minutes. When Nash and Hags come back, play them still. You need 3 lines that are threats, and even the 4th has to chip in. Why does Kreider and Miller have to play top 6? Did we not develop Artie and others on the lower lines before moving up? He learned to play in the NHL by playing there, not in an inferior league.

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10-12-2013, 02:33 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Like I said above, I feel like this game, where they get 3 days away from games and time to practice will be the point we see the youngsters moving up to the NHL. AV knows Pyatt and is playing him more than he should, but what alternative is CURRENTLY in the NHL? Would you rather see Dom Moore, Asham, or Dorsett in the top 6? There are top 6 spots open currently. Bring up Kreider and Miller and see where it goes. Play them big minutes. When Nash and Hags come back, play them still. You need 3 lines that are threats, and even the 4th has to chip in. Why does Kreider and Miller have to play top 6? Did we not develop Artie and others on the lower lines before moving up? He learned to play in the NHL by playing there, not in an inferior league.
Artie spent two full seasons in Hartford.

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10-12-2013, 03:59 PM
  #273
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Artie spent two full seasons in Hartford.
And an entire year on the bottom lines in NY. He was also 19 and 20 in those years and was lean. Kreider is older. He should be up. He played in the NCAA. He can take the physicality. Same with Kristo, but I think since he is smaller, he can use some time down there. These other teams can develop on the lower lines, but we cannot? Detroit makes a habit out of it. These other teams have young players like this up and the vets slide down filling in the middle lines. Was Saad better than Sharp/Kane last year on Chicago? No, but he played on the top line with Toews and Hossa.

I don't understand why we cannot mix in the youngsters and the vets and when things are close, see what they have. IF they cannot, slide someone else on the line for later game situations while they figure that aspect out. Kreider and Miller's speed and size could help a lot right now.

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10-12-2013, 04:47 PM
  #274
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I don't know about you guys but I feel that everyone that have been bad ie teams like edmonton, columbus and so on have moved forward while The Rangers have kind of stood pat, I don't know just a feeling..... right now I would actually like us to aquire some superstar prospects and be, like Tortorella said (I think), contenders for a long time. Imagine if we in the coming two drafts were to get Ekblad and Mcdavid. Drafted superstars, well if they don't bust, that bring us to where we want to be, the idea was ofcourse that Stepan, Staal, Lundqvist would do that but Hank is the only superstar and like many have said, he can't score goals.

I'm just tired of being a middle team, I'm swedish and it's kind of watching the swedish national team in soccer, I hate it, the media and everyone hypes that it's a success just getting past the qualifying rounds in the world cup and european championship, I echo Chael Sonnen's sentiments that if he would never get a title shot in the ufc he would quit because what's the point if you're not going to compete for a championship.

In essence, win it all or suck in style and get some real good, and I mean real good talent, ie Ekblad and McDavid.

This is basically a plea to Sather to not get us to be a middle team again.

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10-12-2013, 05:59 PM
  #275
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Elliot Friedman talked Rangers on Hotstove. Said that having large roster and going to Banff were two mistakes that were made with the team. No cohesion was made. Top lines never got to play before the season. Being on the road for a month was a big mistake and Sather is the reason behind it. Glenn Healey echoed that. Said they need time to practice. They have 3 games in the next 11 days. Time to rest, recover, and get some cohesion.

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