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Do we need more veteran leadership?

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10-12-2013, 12:31 PM
  #1
savebyrichter420
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Do we need more veteran leadership?

Brad Richards is the only player on this team with Stanley Cup experience and most of these players have never gone far in the playoffs other than '11-'12. Do you think we could use a player or two more with a history of going through the tough battles needed to become a champion? Is Richards, who has been struggling over the last year or so and appears fragile confidence wise really the best man for the job? Do you think adding someone like this to the team could help both in the room and on the ice?

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10-12-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
Brad Richards is the only player on this team with Stanley Cup experience and most of these players have never gone far in the playoffs other than '11-'12. Do you think we could use a player or two more with a history of going through the tough battles needed to become a champion? Is Richards, who has been struggling over the last year or so and appears fragile confidence wise really the best man for the job? Do you think adding someone like this to the team could help both in the room and on the ice?
Not really. All I want for Christmas is more goals for.

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10-12-2013, 01:02 PM
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i think we need to make a trade on the backend on d.. or hopefully McIrath can come in mid season and add that nastiness on the backend..

i could see a vet dman on the backend tho..

i honestly hate seeing stralman out there.. dude is soft as **** and needs to get the **** out of here.. also i think even tho DZ is young still.. we should trade/package him for a top 6 player..

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10-12-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Megustaelhockey View Post
Not really. All I want for Christmas is more goals for.
It just seems like most teams when building a young homegrown lineup look to add players like that when they are on the verge of taking that next step and we haven't really done that outside of Richards and he will most likely be gone next year which I think undermines his standing with the team!

I agree we need goals too! When we made that Nash trade we should have looked to add a player of his caliber that has also been through the rigors and battles that come with long playoff runs and possibly finals or even cup winning experience.

I don' think we needed a fancy, highlight reel goal scorer with a losing pedigree. Nash is a great player but we had our sniper in Gabby, what we needed was a more hard nosed around the net goal scorer with a history of winning.


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10-12-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
i think we need to make a trade on the backend on d.. or hopefully McIrath can come in mid season and add that nastiness on the backend..

i could see a vet dman on the backend tho..
This is a good point, no veteran leadership on D and I think someone like that could help settle things down in our end.

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10-12-2013, 01:26 PM
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How many former Cup winners were on the Hawks 09-10 squad? Just from a cursory glance, it looks like John Madden was the only one. Two Cup wins later (even after the first), they're all experienced and "vets" and blahblah. Quenneville only made it to the conference finals once (with STL in 2001) before going to CHI (first season made it to the conference finals, second year was 2010). Feels like the whole "need for veteran leadership" is vastly overrated if the players show up to play and win nightly.


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10-12-2013, 01:27 PM
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They need what they've needed for over decade—a new GM. One who is younger, harder working and better at evaluating talent.

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10-12-2013, 01:34 PM
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They need what they've needed for over decade—a new GM. One who is younger, harder working and better at evaluating talent.
Panic away~

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10-12-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
How many former Cup winners were on the Hawks 09-10 squad? Just from a cursory glance, it looks like John Madden was the only one. Two Cup wins later (even after the first), they're all experienced and "vets" and blahblah. Quenneville only made it to the conference finals once (with STL in 2001) before going to CHI (first season made it to the conference finals, second year was 2010). Feels like the whole "need for veteran leadership" is vastly overrated if the players show up to play and win nightly.
My point wasn't just exclusive to cup winners as I stated but also players with conference finals and finals experience. Plus I think you are seriously downplaying the affect that having gone all the way has on a team and individual players. I know it sounds funny to call them "Vets" at a young age but I never said we needed older players either, just players with more of a pedigree and history of winning along with the knowledge of what it takes to do so.

I think we need a few guys who can settle things down when games start spiraling out of control and also to hold others accountable. This team comes out flat too often along with having a history of letting one bad bounce snowball into something much larger.


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10-12-2013, 01:39 PM
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Panic away~
I don't panic over things that won't be changed. But let's at least recognize what the biggest problem this franchise has is.

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10-12-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
My point wasn't just exclusive to cup winners as I stated but also players with conference finals and finals experience.
Again though, how much of that team had CF/finals experience? I forgot Ladd won a Cup with Carolina too. Hossa and Sharp made it to the ECF before heading to the Hawks, Campbell made it to the ECF with Buffalo, and that's it. The rest of the Hawks team hadn't reached the conference finals before 08-09 (Toews, Kane, Byfuglien, Keith, Seabrook, etc). Niemi hadn't played in the post-season before 09-10. So going in to 09-10, they had 2 Cup winners and 3 other players who reached the conference finals or beyond.

A majority of this Rangers squad has reached at least the ECF: Cally, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Nash, Hagelin, MDZ, McDonagh, Stralman, Lundqvist.

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10-12-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Panic away~
I don't think you could call stating something that has been fairly obvious for more than the 4 games this season panicking.

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10-12-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
Again though, how much of that team had CF/finals experience? I forgot Ladd won a Cup with Carolina too. Hossa and Sharp made it to the ECF before heading to the Hawks, Campbell made it to the ECF with Buffalo, and that's it. The rest of the Hawks team hadn't reached the conference finals before 08-09 (Toews, Kane, Byfuglien, Keith, Seabrook, etc). Niemi hadn't played in the post-season before 09-10. So going in to 09-10, they had 2 Cup winners and 3 other players who reached the conference finals or beyond.

A majority of this Rangers squad has reached at least the ECF: Cally, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Nash, Hagelin, MDZ, McDonagh, Stralman, Lundqvist.
Ok, fair enough although the Hawks were also a ridiculously talented team and we are nowhere near their level. Maybe having more veteran leadership could help us realize we need to play a certain way because our skill level isn't on par with teams like that. Teams can be willed to victory and over come their short comings in the talent department if you have the right people in leadership roles. I also just think its funny that you don't believe in the affect veteran leadership and cup experience can have on a team when you have a Messier picture under your name.

Even if it didn't help us win the cup you don't think it could have any positive impact outside of that?


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10-12-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
Ok, fair enough although the Hawks were also a ridiculously talented team and we are nowhere near their level. Maybe having more veteran leadership could help us realize we need to play a certain way because our skill level isn't on par with teams like that. Teams can be willed to victory and over come their short comings in the talent department if you have the right people in leadership roles. I also just think its funny that you don't believe in the affect veteran leadership and cup experience can have on a team when you have a Messier picture under your name.

Even if it didn't help us win the cup you don't think it could have any positive impact outside of that?
That's very true that the Hawks were and are an extremely talented/gifted team. But before that Cup win, they weren't vets with experience as most would describe them now, they were just a team that had made the conference finals. I'm not trying to discredit veterans or say it's completely useless by any means and I never said it doesn't have an affect on the players, I just think it gets a little too hyped up as being an absolute necessity to start winning.

Honestly I don't know what the hell this team needs right now besides 10 pounds of smelling salt each.

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10-12-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
That's very true that the Hawks were and are an extremely talented/gifted team. But before that Cup win, they weren't vets with experience as most would describe them now, they were just a team that had made the conference finals. I'm not trying to discredit veterans or say it's completely useless by any means and I never said it doesn't have an affect on the players, I just think it gets a little too hyped up as being an absolute necessity to start winning.

Honestly I don't know what the hell this team needs right now besides 10 pounds of smelling salt each.
I respect your opinion, thanks for contributing your thoughts.

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10-12-2013, 02:51 PM
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This is the 2nd thread talking about leadership and frankly I think we're barking up the wrong tree. I think this team has fundamental hockey problems, not leadership problems.

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10-12-2013, 03:08 PM
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This is the 2nd thread talking about leadership and frankly I think we're barking up the wrong tree. I think this team has fundamental hockey problems, not leadership problems.
When to a man they all look like a deer in headlights in their post game interviews recently as well as continuing the trend of not being prepared, not having good starts, not competing for 60 and letting games spiral out of control then I have to strongly but respectfully disagree!

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10-12-2013, 03:37 PM
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Save, what you described is lack of fundamental hockey problems. They can't play together. They look like headless chickens. Bad defense and zone tactics. That's disorganization and play/positional issues.

The team shouldn't be looking for more washed up vets for Sather to sign for 2 more million than they're worth.

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10-12-2013, 03:40 PM
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Save, what you described is lack of fundamental hockey problems. They can't play together. They look like headless chickens. Bad defense and zone tactics. That's disorganization and play/positional issues.

The team shouldn't be looking for more washed up vets for Sather to sign for 2 more million than they're worth.
Who said they had to be washed up? Certainly not me. To me basic hockey fundamentals is one thing. Lacking in the effort and physicality departments, not responding to adversity, as well as looking lost when being interviewed and pressed for reasons why they come up short in these areas is another.

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10-12-2013, 03:43 PM
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I don't see it. The fact that they aren't willing to get more physical and squeeze that extra effort out is a fundamental problem. Those things are basics of hockey. How to actually succeed. You're gonna have to get rough and tough sometimes. Players seem as if they don't want it. And be real, Sather won't give vets a contract that they actually deserve. We've seen it too much. Problem is that the leaders we have, the other guys want nothing to do with that sort of play.

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10-12-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
I don't see it. The fact that they aren't willing to get more physical and squeeze that extra effort out is a fundamental problem. Those things are basics of hockey. How to actually succeed. You're gonna have to get rough and tough sometimes. Players seem as if they don't want it. And be real, Sather won't give vets a contract that they actually deserve. We've seen it too much. Problem is that the leaders we have, the other guys want nothing to do with that sort of play.
Fundamentals means passing, shooting and positioning. If you choose to play hockey, a very physical sport, and can't seem to find it in yourself to be engaged physically that's a heart/will/effort problem. We should be eliminating these types of players not adding more of them like Pouilot etc.

Also, if Sather were competent at his job we would be drafting and acquiring these types of players instead of having to over pay for them in free agency. They wouldn't be veterans but they would at least be playing a more hard nosed game then some of the softies on this team.

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10-12-2013, 04:07 PM
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Apparently Lundqvist, Biron, Falk and Asham were the only ones on the ice for the optional skate this morning. After getting manhandled 3 out of 4 games, it's a good thing Callahan took a leadership role and got everyone on the ice. I'm not liking what I'm seeing. A complete turn around from the 2012-12 team we loved. They're becoming a lot like the 2011 New York Jets....ready to implode.

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10-12-2013, 04:55 PM
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The Rangers need vets that KNOW HOW TO WIN. Call up Florida for Goc, Kopecky, maybe Versteeg. Check around, maybe LA wants to trade Stoll with their bottom six depth, maybe DET wants to move Franzen to make room for younger forwards. There are deals to be made that can help this team. Find some players that have won on bad teams or try and pry some players off winning organizations.

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10-12-2013, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Panic away~
General managers like coaches can outlive their usefulness. Considering Sather's pre-lockout years and the step back we took last year and the atrocious beginning this year he may have outlived his.

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10-12-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MGF0723 View Post
Apparently Lundqvist, Biron, Falk and Asham were the only ones on the ice for the optional skate this morning. After getting manhandled 3 out of 4 games, it's a good thing Callahan took a leadership role and got everyone on the ice. I'm not liking what I'm seeing. A complete turn around from the 2012-12 team we loved. They're becoming a lot like the 2011 New York Jets....ready to implode.
You know what ?? If this is indeed true, it is totally unacceptable.

Edit: this can't be true?

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