HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

What the HELL is going on with Henrik Lundqvist?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-12-2013, 02:06 PM
  #176
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
It's not about being "fake", it's about being a product of your teams system, as most goalies are. If he is the best goalie in the world as we've been told, then his stats should remain the same...right? If his stats take a dip, then we know that coaching change and style of play has had an effect.


I think for the most part, you could shuffle the league's top 15 goaltenders, put them all on different teams, and the result would be +/- .25sv% and no significant change to the respective teams. I think the Gm's know this, which is why the market for goaltenders is soft right now.
Name a more consistent goalie since the lockout.

__________________
Ail is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 02:10 PM
  #177
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
You don't see the flaw in this logic?
How are you going to convince people that the sky is not falling when they firmly believe so?
Logic has no impact on hysteria.

Kwayry is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 02:11 PM
  #178
Hal 9000*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
you do realize that no goalie has been close to lundqvist when you take the past 5 seasons as a whole right? each year one goalie gets hot and wins a vezina. hank has been hot for 8 consecutive seasons under 2 different coaches. you really think a coaching change will knock him out of the top 5 for the first time in his career?
We'll see!

The point is; put Lundquist in Edmonton and he's simply average, Bryzgalov is a star in Phoenix - sucks in philly, Bobrovsky leaves philly and becomes a star, Anderson can't make it in Colorado - but is a star in Ottawa. Thomas is a superstar in Boston...sucks in Fla. - yet Rask (in Boston) puts up better stats than Thomas, Mike Smith.

I know something about AV and I question wether Lundquist can deal with his coaching style - that's all.

Hal 9000* is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 02:20 PM
  #179
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
I believe Wyshynski is a devils fans and his take on the Rangers state of affairs is interesting. Pretty good read.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...1543--nhl.html

Quote:
The New York Rangers are 1-3-0, having given up 19 goals in those three losses. Coach Alain Vigneaultís team has stumbled out of the gate like an inebriated thoroughbred, getting manhandled by the Phoenix Coyotes, San Jose Sharks and Anaheim Ducks on the road.

Whatís gone all wonky for the Rangers to start the season? A few theories:

Quote:
Henrik Lundqvist Is Doing Too Much

Henrik Lundqvist has a .879 save percentage and a bloated 4.31 GAA, putting him in the same decrepit neighborhood as Tim Thomas and Devan Dubnyk to start the season.

The immediate reaction to those numbers will likely be ďIT WAS THE PADS ALL ALONG!Ē, as Lundqvist struggles at the same time the NHL shaved his (allegedly) oversized pads down by a few inches. Maybe heís overcompensating for that, maybe not. But itís not like every goal has beaten him 5-hole.

In fact, reviewing his goals, Lundqvist can be guilty of one thing: Trying to do too much
Quote:
The Defensemen Have Been Atrocious

Dan Girardi and Ryan McDonagh are considered one of the top pairings in the NHL. In the Rangersí first two loses, they were on the ice for 6 of the 13 goals scored, and played a direct role in a number of them - failing to pick up opposing players around the net, losing puck battles in the defensive zone.

In the Ducks game, it was Michael Del Zotto and John Moore that were victimized, on the ice for two of the six goals while Del Zotto was on for another one as well.

Again, itís easy to blame Lundqvist for the Rangersí defensive failings early, but the support heís gotten may have driven him temporarily insane, attempting to do more than he should. The Rangers look lost out there in the Sharks and Ducks losses.
He goes on to discuss other factors.

My question is why is Ulf off the hook for the play of the defense?

Kwayry is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 02:27 PM
  #180
Allen Degenerate
Embrace the Hate
 
Allen Degenerate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Country: Albania
Posts: 4,324
vCash: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
We'll see!

The point is; put Lundquist in Edmonton and he's simply average, Bryzgalov is a star in Phoenix - sucks in philly, Bobrovsky leaves philly and becomes a star, Anderson can't make it in Colorado - but is a star in Ottawa. Thomas is a superstar in Boston...sucks in Fla. - yet Rask (in Boston) puts up better stats than Thomas, Mike Smith.

I know something about AV and I question wether Lundquist can deal with his coaching style - that's all.
We don't know that about Lundqvist. Bryzgalov was very good in Anaheim. Bobrovsky hadn't finished developing before he was traded (and showed a lot of promise his rookie year). Anderson DID make it in Colorado, he put the Avs on his back and took them to a playoff berth in between lottery seasons; the reason his performance slipped is that he quit on Sacco (after making him a Jack Adams nominee. Joe Sacco!) like the rest of the team did and was dealt. Thomas was a superstar in Boston and had a few subpar games in Florida after taking an entire year off when he's damn near 40s. Obviously the system has a lot to do with numbers, but a good goalie is a good goalie.

Allen Degenerate is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 02:46 PM
  #181
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
We'll see!

The point is; put Lundquist in Edmonton and he's simply average, Bryzgalov is a star in Phoenix - sucks in philly, Bobrovsky leaves philly and becomes a star, Anderson can't make it in Colorado - but is a star in Ottawa. Thomas is a superstar in Boston...sucks in Fla. - yet Rask (in Boston) puts up better stats than Thomas, Mike Smith.

I know something about AV and I question wether Lundquist can deal with his coaching style - that's all.
Sucks in Florida? He played 2 games to start the year and now he is hurt AFTER an entire year off.

Talk about a bad example.

Yes, some goalies will thrive with one team and suck with others, but some goalies are just good anywhere they play.

I guess we'll never know if Broduer is actually a HoF worthy goalie since he only ever played in NJ and thrived there. You should use this argument on the Devils forums, I'm sure it will be well received.

Ail is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #182
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,461
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
guess this is what it feels like when people told devils fans that Marty was a system goalie

Fire Sather is online now  
Old
10-12-2013, 03:06 PM
  #183
Jabroni
The People's Champ
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
It's not about being "fake", it's about being a product of your teams system, as most goalies are. If he is the best goalie in the world as we've been told, then his stats should remain the same...right? If his stats take a dip, then we know that coaching change and style of play has had an effect.


I think for the most part, you could shuffle the league's top 15 goaltenders, put them all on different teams, and the result would be +/- .25sv% and no significant change to the respective teams. I think the Gm's know this, which is why the market for goaltenders is soft right now.
I disagree. The Rangers would have been much closer to the lower half of the standings for the past 8 years if not for Hank. He has been the backbone of this team.

__________________
Jabroni is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 04:03 PM
  #184
Baby Punisher
Registered User
 
Baby Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 2,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
what are the odds that cam can be a solid starting goalie in the nhl?
The same as any other goalie entering the NHL for the first time.

Baby Punisher is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 05:02 PM
  #185
PromNite
Armed Android
 
PromNite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,518
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PromNite
Henrik has looked like hell this season. Fighting every shot, letting in softies. I don't know if it has anything to do with the pad size, but whatever it is, we're sunk if he doesn't put it together.

__________________


Adam Tensta's from the 163
PromNite is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 05:20 PM
  #186
Hal 9000*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Sucks in Florida? He played 2 games to start the year and now he is hurt AFTER an entire year off.

Talk about a bad example.

Yes, some goalies will thrive with one team and suck with others, but some goalies are just good anywhere they play.

I guess we'll never know if Broduer is actually a HoF worthy goalie since he only ever played in NJ and thrived there. You should use this argument on the Devils forums, I'm sure it will be well received.
Thomas was a product of the Bruins system, Rask is living proof of that. Thomas wasn't very good before the Bruins as well as when Dave Lewis was coach, his game came around coincidentally enough when Claude Julien became coach and instituted a bulletproof defensive system. Thomas has has the benefit of being off for a year to hide his mediocrity - and you people buy in...hook, line and sinker.

As for Brodeur, this isn't so obvious so i'll give a brief anecdote; Some friends of mine and me, were discussing 3 goalies, Roy, Hasek and Brodeur - "who was better". Any one could be considered the better of the three, so we devised a mathematical system based on 3 different types of games; 1) 23 shots or less, 24-32, and 33+. Then as a control figured out exactly what the average amount of goals that were allowed by every goalie, every game in those categories. For example; 2 games of 22 SA each is much different from 1 game allowing 44 shots against (this is why I don't care much for SV% as the end all be all stat).

I wont give the results of the analysis, because they're gone...but all 3 were under the median in every category. Brodeur was closest to average in every category, but had by in large the more games in the 23 or less category - thus padding his stats. Essentially, games where the Devils gave up 24 or more shots, Brodeur was just slightly better than league average.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 10-12-2013 at 05:27 PM.
Hal 9000* is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 05:25 PM
  #187
kevinsane
Lundqvist clone.
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dawson Creek, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,418
vCash: 500
Thanks for deigning to grace us with your superior intellect. That you share your genius despite it being lost on most of us is a testament to your philanthropy.

And you clearly don't know much about goaltending, as shots on goal are counted by wildly varying degrees around the League, and say zero about the quality of the scoring chance.
Henrik Lundqvist (see, that wasn't hard) has been unbelievably good his entire career. This is a slump, and he'll be fine.

kevinsane is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 05:28 PM
  #188
Siddi
Registered User
 
Siddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Henrik has looked like hell this season. Fighting every shot, letting in softies. I don't know if it has anything to do with the pad size, but whatever it is, we're sunk if he doesn't put it together.
The season barely started, calm down! Hank is known for being a slow starter. Let the poor guy settle in with the new gear and system.

The lack of respect for someone who carried this team on his back for 8 years is frightening

Siddi is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 05:29 PM
  #189
JeffMangum
Ra shi da
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 55,790
vCash: 300
Changed the ridiculous title to something less trollish. Keep it clean, folks, if someone is trolling, report it, do not respond.

__________________

#TannerGlass2014
SEEN YOUR VIDEO!
#SheWentToHarvard
JeffMangum is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 05:39 PM
  #190
Hal 9000*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
Thanks for deigning to grace us with your superior intellect. That you share your genius despite it being lost on most of us is a testament to your philanthropy.

And you clearly don't know much about goaltending, as shots on goal are counted by wildly varying degrees around the League, and say zero about the quality of the scoring chance.
Henrik Lundqvist (see, that wasn't hard) has been unbelievably good his entire career. This is a slump, and he'll be fine.
Although you're being very antagonistic, i will say that the only flaw in the stat is that SOG are not calculated the same way in each building, but hey, SV% seems to be used by everybody to rate goaltenders so...TBH, I wish the league had a set system for recording shots, as for quality, that discrepancy is greatly reduced by categorizing different games. It should be common sense that a goalie giving up 20 SA over 60 minutes and allowing 2 goals is much different from a goalie giving up 20 shots and 2 goals over the course of 1 period.

Lundqvist will be fine, but I guarantee this will be considered an off year for him.

AS an edit; I will say that I predicted this on the main board before the San Jose game, so there is no revisionist thing going on here.


Last edited by Hal 9000*: 10-12-2013 at 05:53 PM.
Hal 9000* is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 05:40 PM
  #191
Pastafazul*
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
AV's coaching style is gonna really test just how good Lundquist is. Personally, I think Hank is gonna regret helping Torts out of town.
never felt hank was good as the media made him out to be, he's not cat like, he's a terrible puck handler and he shows his teammates up...

Pastafazul* is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 06:07 PM
  #192
Dactyl
Registered User
 
Dactyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 7,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafazul View Post
never felt hank was good as the media made him out to be, he's not cat like, he's a terrible puck handler and he shows his teammates up...
hank is better than the media has made him out to be. who gives a **** if our goalie cant shoot the puck down the ice, thats not his job. what does that last comment even mean?

Dactyl is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 06:14 PM
  #193
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafazul View Post
never felt hank was good as the media made him out to be, he's not cat like, he's a terrible puck handler and he shows his teammates up...
It can certainly be said that Hank has had the benefit of being a goalie behind defense first systems with Renney and Torts as coaches his whole career. However, with that said, Hank still has to be given some credit for being so consistent for so many years

Something tells me AV will eventually change his style of coaching to reflect the strengths of this team which is defense with McD, Staal, Girardi and goaltending with Hank.

msv957 is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 06:25 PM
  #194
azaloum90
Registered User
 
azaloum90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The coop!
Posts: 2,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Thomas was a product of the Bruins system, Rask is living proof of that. Thomas wasn't very good before the Bruins as well as when Dave Lewis was coach, his game came around coincidentally enough when Claude Julien became coach and instituted a bulletproof defensive system. Thomas has has the benefit of being off for a year to hide his mediocrity - and you people buy in...hook, line and sinker.

As for Brodeur, this isn't so obvious so i'll give a brief anecdote; Some friends of mine and me, were discussing 3 goalies, Roy, Hasek and Brodeur - "who was better". Any one could be considered the better of the three, so we devised a mathematical system based on 3 different types of games; 1) 23 shots or less, 24-32, and 33+. Then as a control figured out exactly what the average amount of goals that were allowed by every goalie, every game in those categories. For example; 2 games of 22 SA each is much different from 1 game allowing 44 shots against (this is why I don't care much for SV% as the end all be all stat).

I wont give the results of the analysis, because they're gone...but all 3 were under the median in every category. Brodeur was closest to average in every category, but had by in large the more games in the 23 or less category - thus padding his stats. Essentially, games where the Devils gave up 24 or more shots, Brodeur was just slightly better than league average.
I have tried like hell to explain this to every devils fan, but they are so damn thickheaded that instead of discussing/defending this point, they point at the rangers having one cup in 20 years while the devs have 3...

anyways, I've always believed that about brodeur. I'd love to compare his stats to lundqvist over time

azaloum90 is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 08:36 PM
  #195
raylol16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Queens
Country: United States
Posts: 30
vCash: 500
I think Lundqvist is still having issues with the new pad sizes. Though I think the biggest issue is having no defense in front of him. Or just the team in front of him still learning a new system and making a lot of mistakes doing it.

raylol16 is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 09:38 PM
  #196
dmjt4160
Registered User
 
dmjt4160's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,121
vCash: 1004
Certainly looked fine in the 3rd :shrug

dmjt4160 is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 10:26 PM
  #197
Dactyl
Registered User
 
Dactyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 7,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmjt4160 View Post
Certainly looked fine in the 3rd :shrug
noooo he suxxssss

Dactyl is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 11:01 PM
  #198
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
We'll see!

The point is; put Lundquist in Edmonton and he's simply average, Bryzgalov is a star in Phoenix - sucks in philly, Bobrovsky leaves philly and becomes a star, Anderson can't make it in Colorado - but is a star in Ottawa. Thomas is a superstar in Boston...sucks in Fla. - yet Rask (in Boston) puts up better stats than Thomas, Mike Smith.

I know something about AV and I question wether Lundquist can deal with his coaching style - that's all.
Care to share? Otherwise, why mention it, like you are an insider.
Let it rip.

Edit: His name is spelled Lundqvist.

trilobyte is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 11:11 PM
  #199
Savant
Registered User
 
Savant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,886
vCash: 500
Lundqvist is getting absolutely no help from the skaters in front of him. Lundqvist has made some really good saves in every game he has played, but the defensive hockey in front of him is letting him down tremendously. No one knows who to cover and opposing offenses are getting really easy looks. It would be extremely hard for any goalie to look good in this situation, and it could absolutely have opened the exit door for Lundqvist and rightfully so.

Savant is offline  
Old
10-12-2013, 11:17 PM
  #200
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,543
vCash: 500
People are flipping out about Lundqvist after a handful of games.

Do you really think he has lost all his talent all of a sudden.

Sad to be reading this crap, but even more sad to not be surpised by it. A bunch of pseudo-analysts crop up every time something isn't going right.

trilobyte is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.