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Rangers @ Blues: Better?

View Poll Results: POTG
Del Zotto 0 0%
Girardi 0 0%
Stralman 0 0%
Fast 0 0%
Pyatt 0 0%
Dorsett 7 8.54%
Brassard 1 1.22%
J. Moore 0 0%
Staal 0 0%
Richards 38 46.34%
Stepan 3 3.66%
Boyle 0 0%
Callahan 17 20.73%
McDonagh 0 0%
D. Moore 0 0%
Zuccarello 3 3.66%
Falk 2 2.44%
Pouliot 0 0%
Lundvist 4 4.88%
Biron 7 8.54%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-13-2013, 06:06 AM
  #201
Sticky Fingers
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Originally Posted by WhatThePuck View Post
So Yak was a healthy scratch for EDM tonight...I'm sure they're looking for defence.
Would you trade MDZ for Yakupov...I know I would but would the Oilers do that.
They would laugh you in the face. Begin by adding a 1st and go from there.

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Old
10-13-2013, 06:06 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Jabroni View Post
Could anyone give me a synopsis of the game today? Was a t a concert and found out the score.
We played a much better team, either we got real lucky with calls or the ref's tried to hand it to us, but we managed to somewhat keep up with STL for a while due to playing alot of PP.

The PP was good.

Biron was horrible.

We played like a mess. Sometimes we tries to execute a set transition play. Other times someone like McD skates full speed into the corner, without being pressured, and uses a slapper to fire the puck around the boards.


Last edited by Ola: 10-13-2013 at 06:25 AM.
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Old
10-13-2013, 06:17 AM
  #203
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From my point of view, its quite simple.

We are hardly trying to play an offensive style. We are hardly tring to be Detroit or Chicago II, its more the opposite. But, we are trying to do the absolute minimum, ie, not only throw the puck up ice but come out of our own end somewhat collected. We are definitely demanding less in this deparment than say the Islanders are from their D's.

But we are "3.5" years behind the other teams in this league.

Simple passes are made into the skates of the receiver; shot hard 10 inches above the ice; behind the back.

The forwards have no clue what to expect, one shift the D's will pass the puck to them, the other shift some idiot will skate into the corner and slap the puck around the board because he panics, while the forwards are looking for a pass and in zero position to fight it out around the boards.

This is why we are not playing well.

Then there are a ton of "excuses" for why we give up so many goals that we have (even very avg teams in this league wins their fair share of games, we haven't been close to two pts in a while). Poor goaltending. Bad bounced. The trip. Not only travling, we are playing a ton of "unknown" teams, which seem to make us alot more concern and scared than what is warranted. I have a hard time seing us play like Washington or Philly, and get this rattled just because we break down defensively a couple of times. Confidence more than anything else, some guys out there are obviously rattled. Staal is not 100% yet, he makes many great plays and is a sec late when it comes to clearing a rebound or whatever. Stepan is not playing well. Etc. Etc. Etc.

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10-13-2013, 06:22 AM
  #204
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My internet went down today (missed the game), and I'm assuming it's still not working properly because it sounds like you are trying to say that missing basic passes (something which 9 year olds can do as you alluded too) is all Tort's fault. That somehow 3.5 years of coaching (less for most as a lot of this team is relatively new) overcomes a lifetime of practice.

I get that people didn't like/didn't agree with Torts, but wow...
"I have never seen a team so afraid to pass the puck", Mattias Norström during the PO's last season.

I am telling you Mike, its showing. If you don't see it, quote "wow". When we try just to play the most simplistic game with an organized breakout, ie what basically all other teams in this league is doing, we start to break records with our sucking. First team in like 15 years to loose by more than 5 goals in concequtive goals.

I know there are many Torts fans who loved his tough talk to the media etc, but nobody can seriously argue that this team hasn't been extremely badly coached for a long time when seing what a complete mess we are when trying to play a basic hockey game. Sickening.

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Old
10-13-2013, 06:40 AM
  #205
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It really was a much better game, seems as if things clicked a little better. Defensive zone coverage is still terrible but these aren't things you put on the coach. The system works these guys proved it in LA two games into the season. The execution is what has been terrible, lot's of brain farts.

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10-13-2013, 06:43 AM
  #206
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After 5 games, the Rangers have how many even-strength goals?

This was a strength last year.

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Old
10-13-2013, 07:15 AM
  #207
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If I could inject some regular guy thoughts in to this...But if it were me and I was playing on this team and got off to a bad start all I would be focused on is get me the ******* home. I don't want to be on the road. I want my own bed. I want my own toilet. I want my own food. I want my family/friends.

I am going to (try) and patiently wait until Thanksgiving when the schedule swings back in the other direction. By then the Rangers will have just finished a run of 9 of 12 games at home.

In the meantime they will be in their beds 6 of the next 7 nights. We will see a different team by Saturday night.

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10-13-2013, 07:20 AM
  #208
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It at least was a competitive game. That's quite a bit of progress right there from the previous two games. Arguably if Biron hadn't given up those two goals to Steen (who always kills us) and Roy the outcome might have been different. St. Louis carried the first half of the first period and we carried the second half--ironically though we were outscored in the second 3 to 1 we carried the entire period and St. Louis carried the third period. Territorially the game was more or less even.

St. Louis did not get great but they got better goaltending. Rangers still making some collosal defensive errors. Need to tighten up even more. Staal was having some problems last night. It was a decent effort against a very good team--a lucky bounce and better goaltending we might have won it or at least got it to overtime.

Dorsett some dumb penalties. Ryan Reaves plastered a couple of our guys really good. We have no answer to him.

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Old
10-13-2013, 07:33 AM
  #209
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I think it's pretty clear that our defensemen are having a hard time adjusting to the new system. One thing is what they do defensively which is bad enough, but what's worse is their handling of the puck. Marc Staal has seven giveaways (on the stat sheet, I really think there's even more) and most of them have come while looking for the breakout pass. Last year he had 12 for 21 games and the year before 19 for 46.

He takes to long to find the right guy and by the time he is ready to make a pass, the oposition is on him.

With the defensemen joining the rush and pinching you'll have to accept a few turnovers and goals against, but giving up the puck on their own blueline or in the neutral zone has been a real issue. They should be able to fix that with a few more games

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10-13-2013, 07:41 AM
  #210
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I guess if the goal was to allow less than 6 goals in a game, then yes better, mission accomplished. Glad out expectations are going to the same expectations of the dark ages with the teams from 98 to 03.

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10-13-2013, 07:46 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
"I have never seen a team so afraid to pass the puck", Mattias Norström during the PO's last season.

I am telling you Mike, its showing. If you don't see it, quote "wow". When we try just to play the most simplistic game with an organized breakout, ie what basically all other teams in this league is doing, we start to break records with our sucking. First team in like 15 years to loose by more than 5 goals in concequtive goals.

I know there are many Torts fans who loved his tough talk to the media etc, but nobody can seriously argue that this team hasn't been extremely badly coached for a long time when seing what a complete mess we are when trying to play a basic hockey game. Sickening.
Is that first Rangers team in 15 years or first team period? That seems a bit hard to believe it was first team period with how many teams there are in the league and how many years that is.

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Old
10-13-2013, 07:48 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
I guess if the goal was to allow less than 6 goals in a game, then yes better, mission accomplished. Glad out expectations are going to the same expectations of the dark ages with the teams from 98 to 03.
At least two of the goals should have been stopped by Biron. Considering we gave up 9 against San Jose and 6 against an Anaheim team that didn't push the offense in the last period of that game it is better. St. Louis IMO is a better team than both of those as well.

To go further--though last night's game started out like the last two with the Blues peppering our goalie with shots--the last half of the first period the Rangers carried the play and pretty much evened the shots out. The second period the Rangers were far better territorially--they just gave up more goals--so like it or not the team's compete level was a lot higher than the previous two games.

It sucks that we lost.

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10-13-2013, 08:02 AM
  #213
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Missed the game last night and was only able to catch highlights so far...how did Falk look? Does Marty suck again?

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10-13-2013, 08:10 AM
  #214
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Unfortunately for Ranger fans Dorsett has a defective gene which compels him to take stupid penalties. 3 is a bit many but that's him.

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10-13-2013, 08:26 AM
  #215
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You can acknowledge that the team played better without lowering your expectations. Some of you guys, I swear...

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10-13-2013, 08:35 AM
  #216
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I think its time to put Biron out to pasture. He stinks.

Dorsett might be the dumbest player to put on a Ranger sweater since Ryan Hollweg.

They played better, I guess, but this is coming from a situation where it couldnt possibly get any worse. In a nutshell, the problem is this is a team that is both caught between 2 systems, and just inherently stinks from a talent/identity standpoint.

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10-13-2013, 10:22 AM
  #217
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How many goals did the Rangers concede this year as a result of Zuccs bad defense ? As opposed to say, our D-men ?

Zucca is 176 lbs, at 5"7 and all muscle, thats not a small guy
I dunno why not look at his Corsica our advanced stats?

You know people like Phil Kessel or former NYR whipping boy Petr Sykora get ripped for having no back check, board skill, or ability other than goals but at least they score.

Zuc is worthless and not an NHL player. He can't score, and he is always a mismatch along the boards both on the forecheck and on defense. He kills any chance of a breakout or sustained forecheck because he is just too small and lacks hockey instincts.

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10-13-2013, 10:40 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
After 5 games, the Rangers have how many even-strength goals?

This was a strength last year.
That's what Benoit Pouliot is for! Best 5 on 5 guy in the league according to the super duper advanced stats!

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10-13-2013, 10:41 AM
  #219
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They did play better. There were moments when they'd have the Blues pinned in their own zone for long stretches, but as soon as the Blues broke out they immediately scored some incredibly stoppable goal.

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10-13-2013, 10:44 AM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
I think it's pretty clear that our defensemen are having a hard time adjusting to the new system. One thing is what they do defensively which is bad enough, but what's worse is their handling of the puck. Marc Staal has seven giveaways (on the stat sheet, I really think there's even more) and most of them have come while looking for the breakout pass. Last year he had 12 for 21 games and the year before 19 for 46.

He takes to long to find the right guy and by the time he is ready to make a pass, the oposition is on him.

With the defensemen joining the rush and pinching you'll have to accept a few turnovers and goals against, but giving up the puck on their own blueline or in the neutral zone has been a real issue. They should be able to fix that with a few more games
I think that's a crock IMO, they're making fundamental mistakes not systematic mistakes. Leaving guys open, both guys going to the same opposing player, countless turnovers. I'm just hoping it's just a contagious period of poor play from our d-men

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Old
10-13-2013, 10:45 AM
  #221
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I hope they're teaching this system in HTF or else how is a guy like McI going to ever be ready? If guys like Staal and McD can't figure it out...but it's all new and theyve been in the same system for years so we'll see

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10-13-2013, 10:49 AM
  #222
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You should trying working on your reading comprehension. I said numerous times he wasn't being singled out. It's comical to base an argument on stats as well as what I or others have seen? What big plays has he made exactly in these games? For someone so incredibly talented how come he continues to struggle to make his mark? Maybe he's just not as good as some people think along with a few other players on this team. Players of his skill sets only real job is to create offense, if they don't then it's fair to criticize them just like its fair to criticize Dorsett tonight like I did for failing in his role.

I'll say it again, when the team plays the way it has no player is immune to criticism unless they are completely settting the world on fire which neither Zuc or anyone else is doing. Get over it already, if a few of you want to keep jumping on him being mentioned along with other players who need to be better then so be it, I'm not responding to it or trying to clarify it any more for you. Just keep ignoring everything else I said and only focus on the name MZA!
There is a difference between criticism and making decisions to cut guys when others are under performing much more. I believe people are taking umbrage at the inconsistency of your argument bc it targets a smaller issue (no pun intended) while ignoring larger ones.

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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
its not that hard to actually watch him play and see the little things that he is doing that are good
thoug
When I say inconsistency in your argument it's bc I agree with this post he is doing good things and has been doing them.
Reading your thing I would think he isn't doing anything.

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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Well if the Whole team sucks, so why do u focus only on one player? Come up With a better argument. I agree that Zucca has to play better, but Our main focus must be on defense. 20 goals against in the last 3 games are just to much. The fact is that Zucc is just invisible, while other players make horrible mistakes that leads to goals, like Staal on the first goal, stepans turnover, turnovers in the defensive zone etc. That should be the focus, not Boyle, Biron, Zucca, Pyatt etc.
Exactly. Much bigger problems. It is ok to critique and wonder where this guy's scoring is but you seem to be much more focused on this when you shouldn't be.

I think MZA will start producing more on the scoreboard and is worth a spot but he could easily be replaced and him not scoring is not acceptable. The other guy posting about MZA was ridiculous. Just painful reading his posts


Last edited by shinchanyo: 10-13-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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Old
10-13-2013, 11:10 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
I think that's a crock IMO, they're making fundamental mistakes not systematic mistakes. Leaving guys open, both guys going to the same opposing player, countless turnovers. I'm just hoping it's just a contagious period of poor play from our d-men
I don't disagree with any of this, except the point I was making was related to just one part of the defensive game that looks particularly weak this year, the turnovers by defensemen when clearing/leaving the zone. Where they would previously look to get the puck out asap, they are now looking more for that creative breakout pass. As a result they spend an extra second with the puck, just enough for the opposing side's forechecker to gain position on them and create a dangerous situation.

I'm not a big "blame it on the system" kind of guy, and I certainly don't think it's an acceptable excuse for this horrid start, but certain parts of the game will require an adjustment period. I feel that the mentioned part is one of them.

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10-13-2013, 11:18 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
There is a difference between criticism and making decisions to cut guys when others are under performing much more. I believe people are taking umbrage at the inconsistency of your argument bc it targets a smaller issue (no pun intended) while ignoring larger ones.
What players who are expected to provide offense have done less? Even Boyle has more points than Zuc!

But again, where did I single out only Zuc as being this teams problem? I didn't say he needed to be cut, I just pointed out that he along with other players need to be better! How come nobody is giving me **** for saying the same about Pouliot? They've done exactly the same! In fact, Zuc has more ice time than him!

I have been very consistent in my critique of this team and individual players. I was all over Dorsett last night in both the GT and PGT. People just keep trying to pick a fight with me over the sheer fact that I even mentioned Zuc in any kind of negative fashion. When people don't produce in their role and when a team plays as poorly as this team has then who should be immune to criticism?

Christ, I even said I like the guy, I just haven't seen anything to convince me to this point that he has a future in this league. I'm being called inconsistent, what exactly has Zuc been his entire time here? Get over it, move on and end it already. I'm seriously done explaining myself. Go back and read my posts or quite frankly shut up if you or anyone else is gonna keep trying to indirectly call me an idiot and throw me in with a bunch of uneducated posters who spew nonsense around here! Later!

On second thought let me just say this so its crystal clear to everyone here. I don't root for individual players to succeed or fail or a name on the back of a jersey. I root for the only name that counts, the one across the front. I've earned the right as a die hard fan to critique any player on this team, just like anyone else, without having my intelligence, hockey knowledge and loyalty being questioned because someone has been here longer or has more posts than me. I'm not on a witch hunt, my only interest is in seeing this team improve and succeed and if some people take offense to certain players even being questioned than that's your problem, not mine. I know one thing, I certainly won't let it ruin my weekend!


Last edited by savebyrichter420: 10-13-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old
10-13-2013, 11:44 AM
  #225
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Zucc and Pouliot are what they are. Good at creating chances. Not the most adept at finishing them. Not particularly useful outside of that.

The issue is not that they're "playing bad". They are what they are. The issue is that they are being counted on to be 2nd line players for a team that has/had top aspiration.

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