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German Elections 2013

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Old
10-08-2013, 08:10 AM
  #76
pucky
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Do you think that "inflated money" is good for the US economy? Let's hear you explain this one, brilliant boy?

The fact that medicine has tough side effects doesn't make it bad medicine. The cure (the EU) is better than the disease (fractious Europe) even if it causes pain.
All the Iranian-Americans I've met have been intelligent. I meant "Iranians" to mean Iranian government propaganda. If you swallow that crap, I now understand how a German can be a Zionist ghost-hunting proto-fascist.
You sound like you've been having some medicine of your own.

The EU (cure)? LOL! If that's the cure, they're better off being sick.

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10-08-2013, 08:27 AM
  #77
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You sound like you've been having some medicine of your own.
That medicine is called 'history'.

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10-08-2013, 08:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Do you think that "inflated money" is good for the US economy? Let's hear you explain this one, brilliant boy?
Of course it is not good! (we're talking past each other the entire time dude, get your prejudice out of your head)

Though that didn't stop President Johnson, Nixon, Reagan and so on to inflate the money supply supposed to stimulate growth, in order to get voters behind them.

If you had any idea of the monetary systems of our time, you'd know that the US had to have a negative balance of payments. They shamelessly took advantage of that position though. They simply exported the inflation with the capital they exported.

And when the system crashed in 1971-73, after a period of free-floating, the remedy was orchestrated central bank interventions to keep the Dollar as leading world currency stabile. This is the big bummer.

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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
The fact that medicine has tough side effects doesn't make it bad medicine. The cure (the EU) is better than the disease (fractious Europe) even if it causes pain.

Yes it does. The symptoms are clear. The cause of the symptoms are clear. The medicin has always been the same for 50 years (except the time when Volker was head of the FED): moaar moneeey.

You see the wrong disease. You have bought the doctrin that we are war-like people. Sorry bud, that is you guys by now. Europe has learned its lesson. I fear for the American people, since they will have to learn their lesson sooner or later too.

There are so many great minds in the US, unfortunately nobody hears them out.

And nobody ever said that the EU should fractionize again. There should be another Union, but not that piece of undemocratic **** we have at the moment.


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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
All the Iranian-Americans I've met have been intelligent. I meant "Iranians" to mean Iranian government propaganda. If you swallow that crap, I now understand how a German can be a Zionist ghost-hunting proto-fascist.

**** the Islamic Republic, that's all I say to that. Anybody in their right mind should be opposed to the fanatic Zionist movement.


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10-08-2013, 09:06 AM
  #79
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The EU is going to lead to a war soon enough anyway IMO. The current problems are just an early taste for what happens when you engage in a mass project to redistribute resources among people who don't care that much for each other, when you engineer standardized outcomes across very different locations who don't really have that much in common, when you allow populations with very different circumstances in education, standard of living etc. to compete in the labor market without limitations.

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10-08-2013, 09:15 AM
  #80
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The EU is going to lead to a war soon enough anyway IMO. The current problems are just an early taste for what happens when you engage in a mass project to redistribute resources among people who don't care that much for each other, when you engineer standardized outcomes across very different locations who don't really have that much in common, when you allow populations with very different circumstances in education, standard of living etc. to compete in the labor market without limitations.
Just like the United States...

Still the presence of political unions is better than their absence. Pretty obviously.

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10-08-2013, 09:26 AM
  #81
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Tell that to the peoples of the USSR.

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10-08-2013, 09:41 AM
  #82
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Tell that to the peoples of the USSR.
Totally irrelevant.

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10-08-2013, 12:54 PM
  #83
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Not at all. You seem to believe that "union" i.e. a large politically unified body of various sub-units that aren't much alike or like each other very much is by default preferable than independent self-government of people. The Soviet Union is a great example here or the Ottoman Empire, some real success models there.

It's certainly more relevant than any analogy to the U.S. which you brought up. After all, the thirteen colonies were all populated primarily by Englishmen who spoke the same language and shared the same cultural background and were placed together on an alien continent. Union actually makes good sense in that case and has little bearing on whether Bulgaria, Portugal and Austria really need to be part of one federal state. There are now *three* alphabets in the European Union never mind languages..

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10-08-2013, 01:16 PM
  #84
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It's certainly more relevant than any analogy to the U.S. which you brought up. After all, the thirteen colonies were all populated primarily by Englishmen who spoke the same language and shared the same cultural background and were placed together on an alien continent.
You've just described the south prior to the LA purchase, excepting natives and African Americans (who must, according to you, have little cultural influence). Wake up. Your version of American History is a joke. And even if it weren't, we're hardly a nation of Anglo descent. It's remarkably stupid to think we are. It shows much more about your politics than your understanding of America.

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Union actually makes good sense in that case and has little bearing on whether Bulgaria, Portugal and Austria really need to be part of one federal state. There are now *three* alphabets in the European Union never mind languages..
So what? They all speak English, too.

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10-08-2013, 01:55 PM
  #85
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You give me headaches Dan. How old are you, may I ask?

Please come up with some arguments instead of just pushing our arguments out of the way in a condescending manner.

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10-08-2013, 02:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN88 View Post
You give me headaches Dan. How old are you, may I ask?
At least I've accomplished something today. I'm late 30's.

Quote:
Please come up with some arguments instead of just pushing our arguments out of the way in a condescending manner.
I did. Union Europe (incl. Europe moving toward Union) is more stable than pre-Union Europe.

Sometimes the Elders of Zion know what's best!

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10-08-2013, 02:13 PM
  #87
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Sometimes the Elders of Zion know what's best!


/thread

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10-08-2013, 03:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I did. Union Europe (incl. Europe moving toward Union) is more stable than pre-Union Europe.
Doesn't change the point that was made. Just because the EU brought peace (well, it didn't, its predecessors did) doesn't mean that everything that happens in it must be awesome. Something that is good doesn't have to remain good for all eternity. There are still people involved, and people are easily corrupted or greedy.

A union that tramples on the very thing it is supposed to represent is not good. There are times where nudging people in the right directions is for the benefit of everyone. It can get people together who would never have thought about trying that on their own. But when it gets to the point where a few think they know everything better than the people they are supposed to represent, make decisions that are not theirs to make and try to grab power over issues that are none of their business according to the EU itself, then you get yourself into one big problem. Because at that point, you stop bringing everyone together. Instead you divide people.

The EU itself is a big accomplishment, but one must not ignore its weaknesses. Just like we saw in the financial world, if you start to ignore certain checks and balances because you think you are way too smart to fail, things can get downhill fast. There were reasons why the EU-treaties defined what the EU was responsible for and what it can and cannot do. Yet certain people involved with the EU deem themselves above such petty regulations and try to decide things that are clearly not inside their jurisdiction, or even actively circumvent the very rules that had been set.

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10-08-2013, 03:19 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
At least I've accomplished something today. I'm late 30's.
How good for you. Just to be transparent, I'm 25 and working on a paper at the moment.


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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I did. Union Europe (incl. Europe moving toward Union) is more stable than pre-Union Europe.
Well since empirical evidence proves you wrong and you simply made an assumption to begin with ... no, unified Europe is not more stabile.

I'll just point out couple of things:

- One currency for 20+ countries by now is just not gonna work out. Purchasing powers have been reversed by a low Euro.

In an already unstabile monetary enviroment this has been the most chaining step we could have taken as a collective. 20+ countries are now monetarily and fiscally bound to one single subject: the ECB. (we were never asked out it by the way, but I guess the wrong-doings of our forfarthers are enough of an argument to make us slaves)

Now the ECB is pumping the markets with cheap money and the financial markets are rising. Wait till they increase the interest rates. and that **** drops. Oh boy, I even ruthlessly claim that this pattern is orchestrated by the G-something. (you never know which number to take right?)

Japan, GB, ECB and FED dumping money at their cost! At the same time the BRICS countries central banks are going with i.t. at five precent plus.

http://de.global-rates.com/zinssatze...ralbanken.aspx

- Riots, unemployment rates and government debt ... you really are kidding yourself if you want to make yourself believe the EU is stabil.

- The fact Germany has essentially been blackmailed into to EMS by France. Not the say the French are dicks, but they are ******. And they sold themselves. Point was, no unified Germany without simultaneous acceptance to enter a european union.

Now that is liberty of choice and freedom of mind if you ever wanted one.

Some people of Europe chose, but Germany didn't get to choose. Nothing can make that ever good in my book. Germany is the powerhouse of the continent and vital to all of Europes economies. We can stabilize it again, but not under an ECB and not under the patronage of the EU.

There is no arguing that there was a total moral change of the German mind after WWII, but there is great power too, we can channel this power for the good of the world, I am certain. But we are handcuffed and under control.

- the EU essentially socialized the losses, the gains are privatized. This is fascistic socialism at its best. As lastly presentend by the Soviet Union.

You said you knew history. Seems to me you only read American History.


The clear issue here is, that there always (since WWII) was an economic union (as Sanderson very importantly pointed out), times were ****ing awesome, then came the Bretton Woods crash and we get cover in a financial and political Union. What's next the constitutional Union? Noooo thank you, but I guess we won't be asked anyhow ...


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10-08-2013, 03:21 PM
  #90
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American history is the only history worth knowing.

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10-08-2013, 03:31 PM
  #91
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so would be to say "only German history" or better history through a Germans eyes.

Multilateral is the way to go. In an academic sense :cheeks:


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10-08-2013, 03:50 PM
  #92
Dan-o16
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Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
Doesn't change the point that was made. Just because the EU brought peace (well, it didn't, its predecessors did) doesn't mean that everything that happens in it must be awesome. Something that is good doesn't have to remain good for all eternity. There are still people involved, and people are easily corrupted or greedy.
When did I say that?

My thinking on this is rather simplistic. When people have political futures in common, they tend to cooperate, and kill each other a bit less. If I were a European, I'd be more invested in constructing a Political European Nationalism than stoking old grievances.

Not saying it's easy. It's certainly not. To use other analogies, sometimes I'd love to lose Texas. And if not them, then Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas, Alabama, Florida (except for the west coast nana and papa land), etc. I realize that in many ways (especially fiscally), we'd be better off without them. They are tax/entitlement drags.

Then I realize, I'd rather have their drag than for their petty conflicts, trade embargoes, environmental degradation, and who knows what else to spark into wars. Better to listen and sacrifice than to potentially lose big.

It's also why, despite having a Quebec Nationalist in the family, I'm very opposed to his view.

BTW, I've read quite a bit of European History. That's why this talk, which sounds like the grievances of the von Hindenburg era, bug me so much. Blame France! Seriously?

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10-08-2013, 08:18 PM
  #93
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so would be to say "only German history" or better history through a Germans eyes.

Multilateral is the way to go. In an academic sense :cheeks:
Buncha Nazis.

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10-08-2013, 08:30 PM
  #94
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You've just described the south prior to the LA purchase, excepting natives and African Americans (who must, according to you, have little cultural influence). Wake up. Your version of American History is a joke. And even if it weren't, we're hardly a nation of Anglo descent. It's remarkably stupid to think we are. It shows much more about your politics than your understanding of America.
Eh I described the 13 colonies as I said and of course before the Louisiana purchase since we're speaking of the time of independence. Englishmen obviously dominated New England and it's hard to think of a prominent citizen in the Mid-Atlantic at the time who wasn't of English or Scottish descent. And yes blacks and the American Indians didn't have much cultural influence as usually is the case for slaves and those who live outside regular society. 1789 America was overall a pretty damn WASPy place.

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So what? They all speak English, too.
Do you actually know any of those countries beyond reading the Wiki? I can promise you they don't speak English in Bulgaria in general and if you rely on English proficiency in Portugal you'll be surprised if you ever leave the tourist resort. There is a wider level of English knowledge in Austria but still the majority learn it in school and then more or less forget most of it again as is usually the case with foreign languages you learn but don't get to use much.

If you actually get to know the European peoples you will easily and quickly realize that the gap between them is massvely wider than the gap between an American from different regions and it's not comparable at all. Most European ethnic groups have heritages that define them and tie them together that are many centuries older than the European settlement of North America itself.

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10-10-2013, 07:40 AM
  #95
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Eh I described the 13 colonies as I said and of course before the Louisiana purchase since we're speaking of the time of independence. Englishmen obviously dominated New England and it's hard to think of a prominent citizen in the Mid-Atlantic at the time who wasn't of English or Scottish descent. And yes blacks and the American Indians didn't have much cultural influence as usually is the case for slaves and those who live outside regular society. 1789 America was overall a pretty damn WASPy place.
What's more relevant, buddy - America prior to three MASSIVE waves of immigration the LAST of which was 100 years ago, or the f'ing Colonial period? Derp.

Quote:
Do you actually know any of those countries beyond reading the Wiki? I can promise you they don't speak English in Bulgaria in general and if you rely on English proficiency in Portugal you'll be surprised if you ever leave the tourist resort.
I'm sorry, but is Bulgaria currently a huge problem? As for Portugal, it depends. In the Algarve, lots of people speak English (they have to with all the British who live there). In Lisbon, lots of people speak English. In the interior, nobody does, it's true. But there's nobody younger than 50 in the interior, so that's a pretty weird example.

Quote:
If you actually get to know the European peoples you will easily and quickly realize that the gap between them is massvely wider than the gap between an American from different regions and it's not comparable at all. Most European ethnic groups have heritages that define them and tie them together that are many centuries older than the European settlement of North America itself.
Yes, cultural histories that are intimately related to repelling the Muslims, the Catholics, the Russians, the Protestants, or some damn combination of the above. Big whoop!

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10-12-2013, 08:14 PM
  #96
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10-13-2013, 07:04 AM
  #97
NYRFANMANI
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pfffft you're a hardcore capitalist in the most immoral sense Tim. My evidence is that political and social attitude survey you took part in and commented as "Just another dumb political quiz."

You scored 0% in Socialism at that test! This is not normal dude. You are a hardcore individualist with no sence of society and community.


Of course the Millionaires and Billionaires already pay 50% taxes, but the issue reaches so far deeper than that. And the claim that rich people are essential to investments is so flawed it's ridiculous. Most of their money moves in the private financial markets, not merely enough is really invested in real assets helping the common people.

Never forget that the rich man only got rich by the work of others!


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10-24-2013, 02:45 PM
  #98
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So the process is almost there to factualize that, that has been clear for a month now.

Germany will get a great coalition. This was obvious even before the vote in late September.


So this is the look of the "House Majority", the gov. will be lead by Ms. Merkel and the black/red coalition.



gov: 504 seats

opposition: 127 seats

... uhm yeah, need I say more?

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10-24-2013, 05:26 PM
  #99
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I'd like to take the opportunity to apologize on behalf of all like minded Americans for spying on your democratically elected leadership. I am ashamed.

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10-24-2013, 05:43 PM
  #100
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The income gap is growing in Germany too, so the millionaires could stand to pay more than 50 percent.

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