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How petty is Obama? He's removing the handles from water fountains in parks

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Old
10-13-2013, 12:58 PM
  #51
Vtwin
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Still waiting for that proof that there is pettiness by the president, as you have alleged. As a future lawyer, your evidence is woefully lacking here.

Personal anecdote from earlier today.

Took my nephew fishing this morning. Drove by the Missisquoi National Wildlife Refuge. Every public access to the trails closed. Boat launch, closed. This is a very basic boat launch with no facilities beyond a parking lot and a crappy gravel ramp. No attendants, no caretaker, no daily cost to keep it open. In fact, it cost the government more to erect the barriers than to just leave it open. Never seen this before. Unprecedented. This isn't some heavily used national park. This is a roadside pulloff used mostly by locals who fish from the bank or who want to launch a canoe or kayak and paddle through the refuge.

Pathetic.

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Old
10-13-2013, 01:04 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
Personal anecdote from earlier today.

Took my nephew fishing this morning. Drove by the Missisquoi National Wildlife Refuge. Every public access to the trails closed. Boat launch, closed. This is a very basic boat launch with no facilities beyond a parking lot and a crappy gravel ramp. No attendants, no caretaker, no daily cost to keep it open. In fact, it cost the government more to erect the barriers than to just leave it open. Never seen this before. Unprecedented. This isn't some heavily used national park. This is a roadside pulloff used mostly by locals who fish from the bank or who want to launch a canoe or kayak and paddle through the refuge.

Pathetic.
Thank the GOP for shutting down the government over health care then. The Missisquoi National Wildlife Refuge would still be open if they weren't acting like a bunch of children.

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10-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
I don't see compromise or consensus building as one of his strong points or even a priority. Do you?
Compromise and consensus building may or may not be his strong points. But we'll never know, because the GOP embraced the strategy on inauguration night 2009 that they would obstruct everything he proposed. If you're blaming Obama for the lack of cooperation, you're blaming the wrong guy.

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10-13-2013, 01:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
If you think Barry wasn't a "community organizer" in spirit for far longer than your "official" resume says... well. Good luck.
What does this even mean? Does it have any evidence or are you just blowing smoke?

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Point to where I laid it all at his feet. The fact is though, Obama is the POTUS and whether you like it or not it begins and ends with him. His actions are there for us to judge him by. I don't see compromise or consensus building as one of his strong points or even a priority. Do you?
"It begins and ends with him" sure sounds a lot like laying it at his feet.

I don't really care whether compromise is one of Obama's strong suits. It's not like he's been a dictator by any means, and he wouldn't be the first president that had problems with compromising.

But if Obama's a bad leader, then opposition's job is to look like good leaders. And the Republicans have done nothing in the last few years to make them look like good leaders. That's why their approval ratings are in the tank, and that's why they aren't in the White House right now.

American politics has loads of problems right now. If it all "begins and ends" with Obama, then he should've been voted out last year. For whatever reason you choose to believe, he wasn't. So it's safe to say there's a lot more to it.

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Old
10-13-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Who ordered the barricades? That was not done last time, as previously mentioned. Frankly, he could just tell them to not use barricades so he's to blame for that either way.
I'm blaming Bush. Everything changed after 9/11 according to Dick Cheney, therefore it seems to make sense why it never happened under that commie pinko military hating Clinton. It's probably in the Patriot Act about putting up barricades to keep Mooslims and stinky hippy liberals at bay.

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10-13-2013, 04:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
If the closure of open air monuments is the biggest inconvenience in your life right now, I wish I had your problems.

Or to put it another way, I can't believe you're actually letting the right-wing outrage machine distract your attention away from what the right-wing is trying to pull with this pathetic shutdown. You don't seem like the type to fall for their bull ****.
Why does one have to ignore the spiteful closure of the monuments? And where in the world did your first sentence come from?

How am I "distracted" from the right wing ********? I'm on Obama's side here minus the idiotic monument closure.

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10-13-2013, 04:30 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Still waiting for that proof that there is pettiness by the president, as you have alleged. As a future lawyer, your evidence is woefully lacking here.
Yet you completely ignored the point of the post. All Obama has to do is tell them to take down the barriers. So even if he's not the reason the barriers are up, he has all the power in the world to take them down. It's quite simple.

Frankly, I don't expect people to say it came from Obama unless they speak anonymously. No reason to lose your job.

Your cute last line just makes you look foolish for ignoring that. I would normally expect more from you than to get personal. Leave that to Led (who hightailed it out of here after I asked him for proof of the 1995 closings having barriers).

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Old
10-13-2013, 04:35 PM
  #58
Ilkka Sinisalo
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Yet you completely ignored the point of the post. All Obama has to do is tell them to take down the barriers. So even if he's not the reason the barriers are up, he has all the power in the world to take them down. It's quite simple.
Who's going to take them down all around the country? The National Parks staff who aren't being paid.

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10-13-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
That's very true. It is childish, but I don't think it all comes from Obama. I think all of these employees want to inconvenience or annoy the public as much as possible as a means of getting people angry about the shutdown.

It's why a number of government websites were turned off and replaced with notices about them being offline during the shutdown. It's total ********. Nothing happened on the day of the shutdown to require those websites to be turned off. No, they were turned off as part of a larger PR campaign..
I have no idea who truly ordered the barricades. All I know is Obama can stop it at any time and has refused to do so. So he obviously approves of it or at least finds it advantageous to his political position. I have a feeling someone connected to the White House ordered it and that feeling grows the longer the barricades are left up.

W/r/t the websites and such, the websites are turned off because they can't pay the servers. I know a bit about the inner workings with this stuff having talked with some DOJ and EPA guys about the funding. They need to limit the amount of traffic. That's why some sites have remained up and some have gone down at different times. Every group has a different funding level.

The federal courts, for example, will all be shutting down on Thursday, IIRC. They were originally supposed to be closing after 10 days, but they had some leftover money and were able to stay open a bit longer. It'll be interesting to see just how closed they get. I would guess they will just have a clerk to accept and file suits, but that's about it. I would guess the e-file system will be left running, too.

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Old
10-13-2013, 04:40 PM
  #60
Ilkka Sinisalo
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
Personal anecdote from earlier today.

Took my nephew fishing this morning. Drove by the Missisquoi National Wildlife Refuge. Every public access to the trails closed. Boat launch, closed. This is a very basic boat launch with no facilities beyond a parking lot and a crappy gravel ramp. No attendants, no caretaker, no daily cost to keep it open. In fact, it cost the government more to erect the barriers than to just leave it open. Never seen this before. Unprecedented. This isn't some heavily used national park. This is a roadside pulloff used mostly by locals who fish from the bank or who want to launch a canoe or kayak and paddle through the refuge.

Pathetic.
Meanwhile there are hundreds of thousands of federal employees not being paid, pregnant women not receiving assistance, Head Start children not getting food, and kids with cancer unable to enroll in treatment programs. But I'm so sorry to hear that the turn out and trails to your favorite fishing hole were closed. Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers that you might get through this very difficult time.

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Old
10-13-2013, 04:40 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Who's going to take them down all around the country? The National Parks staff who aren't being paid.
The same people who weren't paid to put them up can be unpaid and take them down. And, frankly, the actual parks I can see being closed due to potential lawsuits from an idiot who will get eaten by a bear (although you can just put up, "enter at your own risk" signs to mitigate that). The real ridiculousness is the open air memorials being shutdown and the ****ing CONES along the highway to prevent you from taking a picture of Mt. Rushmore. The Mt. Rushmore thing is disgraceful.

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Old
10-13-2013, 04:43 PM
  #62
Ilkka Sinisalo
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The same people who weren't paid to put them up can be unpaid and take them down. And, frankly, the actual parks I can see being closed due to potential lawsuits from an idiot who will get eaten by a bear (although you can just put up, "enter at your own risk" signs to mitigate that). The real ridiculousness is the open air memorials being shutdown and the ****ing CONES along the highway to prevent you from taking a picture of Mt. Rushmore. The Mt. Rushmore thing is disgraceful.
What's disgraceful is that a political party shut down the government and messed up millions of peoples' lives because they're butt hurt over a law. Cones at Mt Rushmore and the Capitol Mall is just kind of dopey.

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Old
10-13-2013, 04:47 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
What's disgraceful is that a political party shut down the government and messed up millions of peoples' lives because they're butt hurt over a law. Cones at Mt Rushmore and the Capitol Mall is just kind of dopey.
Why does everything have to be grouped together? Yes, I agree, and I've said 3298234608723682367348056734506874 times that the GOP has been disgraceful with this shutdown and that I agree with Obama on it.

However, I don't understand why we have to accept these moronic closures because they go against the administration. Not everything has to be linked. Yes, the GOP can re-open the government right now. However, Obama can also take the stupid ****ing cones and barricades down. The only reason they are left up is because it makes a good political point against the dopes in the GOP.

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Old
10-13-2013, 04:47 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Why does one have to ignore the spiteful closure of the monuments? And where in the world did your first sentence come from?

How am I "distracted" from the right wing ********? I'm on Obama's side here minus the idiotic monument closure.
Well you just seem to be really worked up by the closure of the monuments, as if that's a huge problem facing the country right now (rather than a totally irrelvant sideshow).

Are we absolutely certain that the monuments have been closed on Obama's orders?

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10-13-2013, 04:55 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Well you just seem to be really worked up by the closure of the monuments, as if that's a huge problem facing the country right now (rather than a totally irrelvant sideshow).

Are we absolutely certain that the monuments have been closed on Obama's orders?
I am annoyed by it. There's no reason for it. I get annoyed by political shenanigans all the time.

No one has any idea who ordered the monument barricades. There is an anonymous quote from a park ranger that says they were ordered by the executive branch, but it's dubious to trust anonymous quotes. As I said to Ilkka, though, Obama has the power to demand the barricades and cones be removed. So even if he didn't initially order the placement he is obviously OK with it. Either way I blame him.

It's such a small thing with the whole shutdown, but it's just something that never should have happened. Particularly with the people who live on federal land being evicted from their homes temporarily. This all seems so stupid to me.

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Old
10-13-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I am annoyed by it. There's no reason for it. I get annoyed by political shenanigans all the time.

No one has any idea who ordered the monument barricades. There is an anonymous quote from a park ranger that says they were ordered by the executive branch, but it's dubious to trust anonymous quotes. As I said to Ilkka, though, Obama has the power to demand the barricades and cones be removed. So even if he didn't initially order the placement he is obviously OK with it. Either way I blame him.

It's such a small thing with the whole shutdown, but it's just something that never should have happened. Particularly with the people who live on federal land being evicted from their homes temporarily. This all seems so stupid to me.
You do know how large the executive branch is right? It's layers and layers of bureaucracy that the President has control of in name only.

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Old
10-13-2013, 10:23 PM
  #67
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You do know how large the executive branch is right? It's layers and layers of bureaucracy that the President has control of in name only.
I don't think you understand how much power Obama has with regards to something as public as open air monument closures. All he has to do is wave his hand and open them.

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10-14-2013, 12:29 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
Show me a political activist, especially on the left, who won't resort to whatever it takes to get their way and I'll get you an authentic autographed picture of Santa Claus.
Republicans shut down the government because they don't get what they want and it's the liberal lefties who are willing to "resort to whatever it takes to get their way". Give me a break.

The government is broken. People elected to public office perform their jobs as if they are in a perpetual state of candidacy. Republicans think of Democrats as "the enemy" rather than fellow Americans with different opinions; Democrats feel the same way toward Republicans. Our government spies on its citizens and has gradually eaten away at other aspects of freedom in the name of anti-jihad. Congress can't agree on a bill that would make it easier for more Americans to have access to healthcare all while spending massive oil tankers worth of money on war and protecting our "freedoms" and sending drone bombs into 3rd world countries.

The world is a ****ed up place. Right now, America is as well.

Oh, and America's infrastructure, much of which was built during FDR's reign of liberalistic utopian ideals, is crumbling around our ears. Bridges, highways, buildings, damns, etc. are all aging and aren't getting the proper funding to replace/repair necessary to keep goods moving and people safe over the next few decades. Add it to the list.

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10-14-2013, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Republicans shut down the government because they don't get what they want and it's the liberal lefties who are willing to "resort to whatever it takes to get their way". Give me a break.

The government is broken. People elected to public office perform their jobs as if they are in a perpetual state of candidacy. Republicans think of Democrats as "the enemy" rather than fellow Americans with different opinions; Democrats feel the same way toward Republicans. Our government spies on its citizens and has gradually eaten away at other aspects of freedom in the name of anti-jihad. Congress can't agree on a bill that would make it easier for more Americans to have access to healthcare all while spending massive oil tankers worth of money on war and protecting our "freedoms" and sending drone bombs into 3rd world countries.

The world is a ****ed up place. Right now, America is as well.

Oh, and America's infrastructure, much of which was built during FDR's reign of liberalistic utopian ideals, is crumbling around our ears. Bridges, highways, buildings, damns, etc. are all aging and aren't getting the proper funding to replace/repair necessary to keep goods moving and people safe over the next few decades. Add it to the list.
Do you have any suggested books to read about FDR? He is a guy with a ton of biographies on him, and it is hard to know where to start.

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Old
10-14-2013, 07:51 AM
  #70
Vtwin
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Thank the GOP for shutting down the government over health care then. The Missisquoi National Wildlife Refuge would still be open if they weren't acting like a bunch of children.
There are two sides to this impasse. The democrats could accept an alternative just as easily as the republicans could cave.

Putting it all one side is pretty narrow minded and self centered.

Not to mention you are completely off the topic of this thread which is the pettiness of the current administration to close places that cost nothing to remain open.

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10-14-2013, 07:54 AM
  #71
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There are two sides to this impasse. The democrats could accept an alternative just as easily as the republicans could cave.

Putting it all one side is pretty narrow minded and self centered.
No there aren't, and no it isn't. The Republicans are trying to subvert the legislative process by retroactively killing legislation they legitimately lost a vote on. This is all on one side.

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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
Not to mention you are completely off the topic of this thread which is the pettiness of the current administration to close places that cost nothing to remain open.
I'm not "completely off-topic" at all. The government is shut-down because of the Republicans. Blame them if you can't go to the Missisquoi National Wildlife Refuge. If you're unwilling to, it's because you're politically biased and holding the wrong people responsible.

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10-14-2013, 07:57 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Meanwhile there are hundreds of thousands of federal employees not being paid, pregnant women not receiving assistance, Head Start children not getting food, and kids with cancer unable to enroll in treatment programs. But I'm so sorry to hear that the turn out and trails to your favorite fishing hole were closed. Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers that you might get through this very difficult time.
Typical douchbaggery from the forum's king of the **********.


Are just to stupid to comprehend my post. You know, the part where I said I was "driving by". Didn't inconvenience me one bit.

Once again you simpleton, it is about the pettiness of the administration to close something that costs nothing to keep open just to prove a point and try and sway public opinion.

Anyone, no matter what side of the debate you are on, that doesn't see a problem with this attitude is a spineless, selfish moron.

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10-14-2013, 07:58 AM
  #73
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At this point I'm convinced that the Republicans could literally get away with anything. It doesn't matter how reckless or childish their behavior is, their supporters still mindlessly trot out the lie that "it's both sides at fault."

If conservatives could let go of that ridiculous false equivalency and accept that their party has been hijacked by far-right retards, then we would be a lot better off.

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10-14-2013, 08:00 AM
  #74
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No there aren't, and no it isn't. The Republicans are trying to subvert the legislative process by retroactively killing legislation they legitimately lost a vote on. This is all on one side.



I'm not "completely off-topic" at all. The government is shut-down because of the Republicans. Blame them if you can't go to the Missisquoi National Wildlife Refuge. If you're unwilling to, it's because you're politically biased and holding the wrong people responsible.
Whether you like or not the republicans are using the political process as it was designed.

Whether you like or or not the democrats are just as much responsible for the shutdown as the republican's.

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10-14-2013, 08:02 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
Whether you like or not the republicans are using the political process as it was designed.

Whether you like or or not the democrats are just as much responsible for the shutdown as the republican's.
The reason their was no failsafe against something like this is no one was stupid enough to hold the government, and now US economy hostage to win their petty little battles. We have a system of checks and balances for a reason, and that reason is not for the House to stamp their feet and whine until they get their way.

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