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400 pts for Markov

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Old
10-11-2013, 05:45 PM
  #26
JunglePete
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I agree Montreal shouldn't retire Markov's jersey. However Montreal's group of retired players is a ''bit'' more exclusive than Dallas'. To put it mildly, considering the Habs have went trough several dynasties and two dozen cup wins. Getting one's jersey retired in Montreal is far harder than in any other team or getting in the HHOF.
Definitely agree with that, but of course I was considering (if) both teams were on the same level of dynasty/background. Lets say Zubov had played with MTL and had his Dallas stats over here which were far superior to Markov, that still wouldnt be enough to get his jersey retired. See where Im coming from?

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10-11-2013, 05:54 PM
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So, what are the number of points gained for the greatest scoring Ds in the Habs' history?

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Old
10-11-2013, 06:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
So, what are the number of points gained for the greatest scoring Ds in the Habs' history?
If Markov is at least as good as he was last year...I wonder if the Subban-Markov pairing could rate all time among Habs D pairings...after all by the time Robinson put his offensive side together, Savard was not much of a factor offensively and Lapointe peaked much earlier...I forget, did Schneider and Desjardins play together?

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10-11-2013, 06:26 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
If Markov is at least as good as he was last year...I wonder if the Subban-Markov pairing could rate all time among Habs D pairings...after all by the time Robinson put his offensive side together, Savard was not much of a factor offensively and Lapointe peaked much earlier...I forget, did Schneider and Desjardins play together?
What is the score Subban and Markov have to beat?

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10-11-2013, 06:43 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
What is the score Subban and Markov have to beat?
I'm trying to find it, can anyone help?

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10-11-2013, 06:44 PM
  #31
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I'm trying to find it, can anyone help?
I asked because I gave up myself.

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10-11-2013, 07:24 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab
PK Subban:
<Norris winner (and many more)

Markov:
<Norris? you should be able to deliver in the playoffs to win a Norris.
<does anyone have any of his playoff highlights...I dare you to find some, but of course you will try to change the subject!
<playoff warrior? are you kidding me?!
unhealthy love of punctuation and subban aside, the norris - as is every other trophy bar the conn smyth and stanley cup, is awarded for regular season play. you don't have to deliver in the playoffs to win it, in fact, voting for it is finished before the playoffs even start.

the more you know

he has me on his IL so someone quote me so i can drop some knowledge boiiiiiiiiii

unless im wrong in which case it'll be very embarrassing

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Old
10-14-2013, 02:38 AM
  #33
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Gotta love Markov in the regular season when he's not constantly jinxed with injuries but c'mon! 400pts?! not a big deal...he would be at 550-600ish if he weren't often jinxed with injuries...550-600 is worth mentioning...at least more than 400, imo.


AND/BUT...

Markov has never done anything for our Habs in the playoffs (and that's what it's all about). I can't remember a single thing he has done in the playoffs that is really worth remembering and that's the truth.


Anyways...don't want to be such a killjoy...I am happy Markov is remaining healthy even though he's so slow compared to 3 seasons ago...but better that he's in the lineup VS injured, I guess, but...we will go further when we get that solid top 3-4 dman who can also be VERY solid in the playoffs. I'm fed up of the Habs paying $5.75mil/year every season to Markov when he just can't deliver in the playoffs. I want to see a solid top 4 playoff warrior dman replace him sooner than later since Subban can't play 60minutes...or maybe he can!).

From now on...$3 mil (maximum) for one more year or time to GTFO...imo.
(I'm just hoping we get a 1st rnd pick + good prospect for Markov, but his NTC is pissing me off).

We need to save lots of $$$$$$$ for the real winners of this team...players who can deliver in playoffs (for now and the future)...PK Subban, Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 10-14-2013 at 02:51 AM.
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Old
10-14-2013, 05:28 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Gotta love Markov in the regular season when he's not constantly jinxed with injuries but c'mon! 400pts?! not a big deal...he would be at 550-600ish if he weren't often jinxed with injuries...550-600 is worth mentioning...at least more than 400, imo.


AND/BUT...

Markov has never done anything for our Habs in the playoffs (and that's what it's all about). I can't remember a single thing he has done in the playoffs that is really worth remembering and that's the truth.


Anyways...don't want to be such a killjoy...I am happy Markov is remaining healthy even though he's so slow compared to 3 seasons ago...but better that he's in the lineup VS injured, I guess, but...we will go further when we get that solid top 3-4 dman who can also be VERY solid in the playoffs. I'm fed up of the Habs paying $5.75mil/year every season to Markov when he just can't deliver in the playoffs. I want to see a solid top 4 playoff warrior dman replace him sooner than later since Subban can't play 60minutes...or maybe he can!).

From now on...$3 mil (maximum) for one more year or time to GTFO...imo.
(I'm just hoping we get a 1st rnd pick + good prospect for Markov, but his NTC is pissing me off).

We need to save lots of $$$$$$$ for the real winners of this team...players who can deliver in playoffs (for now and the future)...PK Subban, Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher.
name the dozen of Habs D men who made it to 400 pts, please...


winners ???
and what did the team won with them so far ???

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10-14-2013, 06:02 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
name the dozen of Habs D men who made it to 400 pts, please...


winners ???
and what did the team won with them so far ???
BOOM! Exactly. I am very happy for Markov, he's been our best player by far for 10years. Can anyone else here name a 6th rounder that has had as big an impact in montreal as him

But now, because of the injuries, he's not quite as quick, or mobile, but his vision my God his vision is 2nd to none.

All that said, because of the cap, and the age of the team, it might be a good time to move him. He'd get a really good return. OR he can be resigned to a very friendly deal. He got a good money long term deal while injured, maybe help the team out now? Pretty please.

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10-14-2013, 06:12 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Gotta love Markov in the regular season when he's not constantly jinxed with injuries but c'mon! 400pts?! not a big deal...he would be at 550-600ish if he weren't often jinxed with injuries...550-600 is worth mentioning...at least more than 400, imo.
in the future, before hitting "post", use google. a cursory search would tell you that at 400 points, andrei is 5th in points for a habs defensemen. all-time of course. your "if it ain't 600 points, it ain't a big deal"? that would put him at... *drumroll* second. behind big bird. mighty high standards to be just "worth mentioning" dont you think?

we got 99 problems but marky mark aint one

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10-14-2013, 07:33 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Gotta love Markov in the regular season when he's not constantly jinxed with injuries but c'mon! 400pts?! not a big deal...he would be at 550-600ish if he weren't often jinxed with injuries...550-600 is worth mentioning...at least more than 400, imo.


AND/BUT...

Markov has never done anything for our Habs in the playoffs (and that's what it's all about). I can't remember a single thing he has done in the playoffs that is really worth remembering and that's the truth.


Anyways...don't want to be such a killjoy...I am happy Markov is remaining healthy even though he's so slow compared to 3 seasons ago...but better that he's in the lineup VS injured, I guess, but...we will go further when we get that solid top 3-4 dman who can also be VERY solid in the playoffs. I'm fed up of the Habs paying $5.75mil/year every season to Markov when he just can't deliver in the playoffs. I want to see a solid top 4 playoff warrior dman replace him sooner than later since Subban can't play 60minutes...or maybe he can!).

From now on...$3 mil (maximum) for one more year or time to GTFO...imo.
(I'm just hoping we get a 1st rnd pick + good prospect for Markov, but his NTC is pissing me off).

We need to save lots of $$$$$$$ for the real winners of this team...players who can deliver in playoffs (for now and the future)...PK Subban, Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher.
"real winners"?

WTF is that supposed to mean? Some kind of dig on Markov?

It's a joke you bring up those guys as players that can "deliver in the playoffs" when they have done squat so far. Taking an underhanded dig at the best player we've had the last 10 years is pretty juvenile.

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10-14-2013, 05:51 PM
  #38
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I just think the team needs Markov in the regular season, that's all.
(and boy is he slow compared to 3 seasons ago...and he does give it away more often).

Once the playoffs are here...he's useless (not a winner since he's not helping the team when it counts the most). He never helped our Habs in the playoffs so why do we keep him? It's gone on for too long. Trade him (force him to waive his NTC) at the trade deadline so we can finally get help in our top 4 for the playoffs...only logical since Subban can't do it by himself (he at least needs a solid #3-4 dman to help the 2nd pairing while Subban does everything on the 1st pairing). I'm just afraid we will lose Markov for nothing ($#%&*#$)...he better waive his NTC for us.


Why continue playing a dman in the playoffs who makes $5.75mil/year when he has never ever delivered when it counts the most?? Doesn't make any sense.

Markov is only effective in the regular season.
(but invisible every time in playoffs...nothing but the truth).

Just pointing out the obvious but I'm still wondering why he's still here.
If you can't help the Habs in playoffs...GTFO (imo). We all know he won't help for the 2014 playoffs...the 2015 playoffs...the 2016 playoffs...so why continue keeping him? Gotta find a better playoff dman (so obvious).


p.s.: if you forced me to say something nice about Markov...I like his outlet passes...and I like his passes across the ice on the PP (rarely see it though these days), but...he's still not the same as 3 seasons ago (and he will never ever help our Habs in the playoffs... this is the bottom line).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 10-14-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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Old
10-14-2013, 06:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
"real winners"?

WTF is that supposed to mean? Some kind of dig on Markov?

It's a joke you bring up those guys as players that can "deliver in the playoffs" when they have done squat so far. Taking an underhanded dig at the best player we've had the last 10 years is pretty juvenile.
Best player in the last 10 years? That's just your opinion.


Imo, PK Subban has been the best player in the last 10 years (that's just my opinion). Subban has done more for our Habs in the last 2-3 seasons VS Markov's last 10 years (400pts or no 400pts). Again...this is my opinion. One example out of many...we were one goal away VS the Bruins not long ago (mainly because of Subban's goal in last seconds of game). I've never seen Markov come close to helping our Habs like that in the playoffs (Markov has always been VERY useless in the playoffs...and all the Markov fans can't acknowledge this for some reason! why? 'cause it's the truth).

The playoffs to me has a hundred times more value than the regular season. PK Subban is a warrior in the regular season and he's also a huge warrior in the playoffs. We need another PK Subban, not another Markov.

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Old
10-14-2013, 06:26 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I just think the team needs Markov in the regular season, that's all.
(and boy is he slow compared to 3 seasons ago...and he does give it away more often).
So a shortened season after not playing for 2.5 years and 5 games into the season are a big enough sample for you of how his form and rehab are going? Judge almost anyone on the team by those standards and tell me how they fare off.

The guy was unanimously considered top 10 in the NHL prior to a couple of fluke injuries and now you're ready to write him off so quickly.

Quote:
Once the playoffs are here...he's useless (not a winner since he's not helping the team).
Who isn't? Last I checked no one in this team really stood out with the exception of handful of players and that just goes to show you the sad state we have been in for the past 20 years.

Quote:
(force him to waive his NTC) so we can get help in our top 3-4 for the playoffs...only logical since Subban can't do it by himself (he at least needs a solid #3-4 to help the 2nd pairing while Subban does everything on the 1st pairing).
Force him to waive his NTC? Force him?!! Are you for real? A player that has shown nothing but heart and loyalty to this team, is 5th in points for a defense-men in the franchise history and you want to treat him like he's Ribeiro?

Quote:
Why continue playing a dman in the playoffs who makes $5.75mil/year when he has never ever delivered when it counts the most?? Doesn't make any sense.
By those standards you'll need to trade 99% of the team.

Quote:
If you can't help the Habs in playoffs...GTFO (imo). We all know he won't help for the 2014 playoffs...the 2015 playoffs...why continue keeping him?
See above.

Quote:
Gotta find a better playoff dman (so obvious).
Show me a better d-man that will cost less than 5mil/year and has a better hockey IQ, skill and prowess of Markov.

Your hate for him is irrational and you're using double standards to judge him while turning a blind eye to the more glaring problems we have on this team.

Fact of the matter is, we lose Markov and our defense and special team are significantly weakened. Until Tinordi, Emelin and Beaulieu are ready to take over, you'll be hard pressed to find a better mentor and role model for them.

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10-14-2013, 08:04 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
The playoffs to me has a hundred times more value than the regular season. PK Subban is a warrior in the regular season and he's also a huge warrior in the playoffs. We need another PK Subban, not another Markov.
Habs Cups with Markov : 0
Habs Cups with Subban : 0

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Old
10-14-2013, 09:44 PM
  #42
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So a shortened season after not playing for 2.5 years and 5 games into the season are a big enough sample for you of how his form and rehab are going? Judge almost anyone on the team by those standards and tell me how they fare off.

The guy was unanimously considered top 10 in the NHL prior to a couple of fluke injuries and now you're ready to write him off so quickly.

Write him off so quickly...I swear I didn't like Markov 5-6-7 seasons ago (not just recently) because I never saw him do anything in the playoffs. Face it...he was never a playoffs dman and NEVER EVER will be and this is why I wanted him gone a long time ago. We're just carrying/keeping him 'cause we're waiting for other offensive dmen to develop (ex: Beaulieu).
And, top 10 for what? The regular season? For sure... a couple of seasons ago (a couple of times or more in his career), but...he will never deliver in the playoffs. Never. This is what bugs me.
For $5.75mil/year you should deliver in the playoffs.
I'm keeping a close eye on Price now in playoffs (but I also have to hope our top players stay healthy).



Who isn't? Last I checked no one in this team really stood out with the exception of handful of players and that just goes to show you the sad state we have been in for the past 20 years.

I beg to differ...PK Subban has given a lot of us hope...he represents what a player should be all about during the playoffs.
Price hopefully will follow (we just need to put it all together starting with the health department...).



Force him to waive his NTC? Force him?!! Are you for real? A player that has shown nothing but heart and loyalty to this team, is 5th in points for a defense-men in the franchise history and you want to treat him like he's Ribeiro?

Force him? Didn't mean to make it sound so literal, so barbaric! Instead...politely ask him...there! That probably sounds better!
(beg if you have to!).
Ribeiro...wanted him out from day 1...was so happy when he left (even if it meant taking Niinimaa).





By those standards you'll need to trade 99% of the team.

Again, I have to disagree.

I'm counting on more than a handful to be playoff warriors...
PK Subban, Gorges (to be a playoff warrior again if he can regain that form or else GTFO!), for Tinordi to be a playoff warrior (with more time-experience/patience/more development,etc). I believe Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher will show us again and again that they can be playoff warriors. Plekanec is consistent not amazing but consistent defensively in playoffs.
I think Price can put it altogether...I'm still hoping.
Pacioretty has it in him to be a playoff warrior if he wants. Prust, Moen (for a comeback in playoffs), and more...

BUT...I know exactly what to expect from Markov in playoffs and this is everytime...nothing.





See above.





Show me a better d-man that will cost less than 5mil/year and has a better hockey IQ, skill and prowess of Markov.

Your hate for him is irrational and you're using double standards to judge him while turning a blind eye to the more glaring problems we have on this team.

We may have to get a top 4 UFA dman who can deliver in the playoffs or make that trade if the price is right. A lot of top 4 dmen are better VS Markov in the playoffs...remember that we're talking playoffs VS regular season. I know Markov is good in the regular season but I don't care anymore...he can't do anything when it really counts.

Fact of the matter is, we lose Markov and our defense and special team are significantly weakened. Until Tinordi, Emelin and Beaulieu are ready to take over, you'll be hard pressed to find a better mentor and role model for them.

Many are saying Markov is a great role model...he's so slow and he gives the puck away quite often and he can't even come close to catching the player he gave it away to. And the worst part...he cannot ever play well during the playoffs...great role model.

Great role model?
PK Subban...fantastic during the regular season...fantastic during the playoffs
.

BOLD: my reply to your post!

Cheers! (maybe I'll take it easy on the Markov bashing since this will go on forever and ever...until the day Markov is not a Hab anymore...waste of time after awhile!).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 10-14-2013 at 09:54 PM.
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Old
10-14-2013, 10:10 PM
  #43
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Definitely agree with that, but of course I was considering (if) both teams were on the same level of dynasty/background. Lets say Zubov had played with MTL and had his Dallas stats over here which were far superior to Markov, that still wouldnt be enough to get his jersey retired. See where Im coming from?
Zubov has 300 more points in 400 more games. If you consider that Markov missed 2 of his best career seasons. In the end they would end up with comparable numbers stats Wise. Nothing to brag about really.

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10-14-2013, 10:12 PM
  #44
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Markov has 19 poitns in 54 playoffs games, given the playoffs teams he was part of, it's pretty decent imo.

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10-14-2013, 10:18 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
BOLD: my reply to your post!

Cheers! (maybe I'll take it easy on the Markov bashing since this will go on forever and ever...until the day Markov is not a Hab anymore...waste of time after awhile!).
Just saying, but Hope doesn't win anything... It's cool that Subban givesy ou hope... but that's has useless as "useless Markov" can be.

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10-14-2013, 10:56 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
BOLD: my reply to your post!

Cheers! (maybe I'll take it easy on the Markov bashing since this will go on forever and ever...until the day Markov is not a Hab anymore...waste of time after awhile!).
that's all it is.

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10-16-2013, 10:44 AM
  #47
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Arpon Basu ‏@ArponBasu 5m #Habs D Andrei Markov has not been on the ice for a goal against in 93.5 MP at 5v5. He was on for a team-worst 33 GA at 5v5 last season.

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10-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #48
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Best player in the last 10 years? That's just your opinion.


Imo, PK Subban has been the best player in the last 10 years (that's just my opinion). Subban has done more for our Habs in the last 2-3 seasons VS Markov's last 10 years (400pts or no 400pts). Again...this is my opinion. One example out of many...we were one goal away VS the Bruins not long ago (mainly because of Subban's goal in last seconds of game). I've never seen Markov come close to helping our Habs like that in the playoffs (Markov has always been VERY useless in the playoffs...and all the Markov fans can't acknowledge this for some reason! why? 'cause it's the truth).

The playoffs to me has a hundred times more value than the regular season. PK Subban is a warrior in the regular season and he's also a huge warrior in the playoffs. We need another PK Subban, not another Markov.
Subban has only been here about 3 years. For 2 of those yaers he was a raw player still learning the ropes of the NHL, it's a joke to consider him our best player the past 10 years.

Markov was a huge part of making the playoffs and getting where we went while he was here. Not sure where you get this ridiculous idea that he has been "VERY useless" in the playoffs. It's hard to contunue a discussion with somebody with such ridiculous views...

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10-16-2013, 08:58 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post

If you can't help the Habs in playoffs...GTFO (imo).
Look, I'm a big fan of both Subban and Markov and yeah, PK is a better player now because he's awesome and Markov has declined... However, I think you're showing a total lack of respect for a guy who's given us so many great plays to watch in the last decade or so, when you say he should "get the f out". I know it's only a discussion board and no one is getting harmed, but I don't like it.

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10-17-2013, 09:06 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
So, what are the number of points gained for the greatest scoring Ds in the Habs' history?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I'm trying to find it, can anyone help?
Pretty sure i posted it on page 1..?

edit : PK is currently at 120 pts.

Larry Robinson
883
Guy Lapointe
572
Doug Harvey
447
Serge Savard
412
Andrei Markov
400
Patrice Brisebois
371
Jean-Claude Tremblay
363

say PK averages 60 points for the next 10 years which is reasonable, would put him at 720 at 34 years old, damn robinsons point total is impressive

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