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Old
10-13-2013, 11:35 AM
  #151
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Not sure, but a chap by the name of Jonathan Cheechoo once scored 56 goals in a single season in a not so distant past... I wonder where he is now.
yeeeee pine.

But about that post, didn't cheechoo suffer an injury? Ankle or something and it affected his speed?

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10-13-2013, 12:38 PM
  #152
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yeeeee pine.

But about that post, didn't cheechoo suffer an injury? Ankle or something and it affected his speed?
knee injury.

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10-13-2013, 01:17 PM
  #153
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We have already tried the Jacques Martin approach to putting the small but less-talented forwards on the 4th line. It didnt work out too well.
In the case of DD, we can still put him on a third line and let him show he can play top-6.
For now, we can not put him on 4th line: it is a bit extreme.

Back in 2010-11 he played with Pouliot/White and Pouliot/Darche.
Still managed to score .51 ppg ahead of Darche (.44), Pouliot (.38) and White (.19).

It's not like Desharnais was horrible last season.
He was 54th in the league among players who played 500 minutes in points per 60 minutes of play.
Still was more productive than Plekanec and Ryder.
His problem was in PP where he was 147th.

The problem is that our young players are ahead of him.
So it seems OK to have Eller and Plekanec have more TOI than him (including PK).

But putting him on a 4th line as proposed by other posters seems ridiculous.

We are a stronger team when DD produces at least .5 ppg.
Anyone expect EGG and PK to finish the season at ppg pace?

Let Therrien manage the lines and the ice time. He is doing a pretty good job up to now.

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10-13-2013, 01:22 PM
  #154
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In the case of DD, we can still put him on a third line and let him show he can play top-6.
For now, we can not put him on 4th line: it is a bit extreme.

Back in 2010-11 he played with Pouliot/White and Pouliot/Darche.
Still managed to score .51 ppg ahead of Darche (.44), Pouliot (.38) and White (.19).

It's not like Desharnais was horrible last season.
He was 54th in the league among players who played 500 minutes in points per 60 minutes of play.
Still was more productive than Plekanec and Ryder.
His problem was in PP where he was 147th.

The problem is that our young players are ahead of him.
So it seems OK to have Eller and Plekanec have more TOI than him (including PK).

But putting him on a 4th line as proposed by other posters seems ridiculous.

We are a stronger team when DD produces at least .5 ppg.
Anyone expect EGG and PK to finish the season at ppg pace?

Let Therrien manage the lines and the ice time. He is doing a pretty good job up to now.
Of course it is, cause you know... when they arent getting any goals and assists they're still useful to the team... Eller with his heavy forecheck and good defensive play, Plekanec with his ability to adapt to pretty much any winger and his great two way play...

when DD isnt getting any points he's just that, not getting any points...

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10-13-2013, 01:35 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Of course it is, cause you know... when they arent getting any goals and assists they're still useful to the team... Eller with his heavy forecheck and good defensive play, Plekanec with his ability to adapt to pretty much any winger and his great two way play...

when DD isnt getting any points he's just that, not getting any points...
I have found this stat to be very instructive (GF% = GF / (GF+GA)).
55% would mean that 55 GF are score while 45 GA are scored.

Desharnais went from being first in 2011-12 to 10th.

It does not show quality of opposition.

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10-13-2013, 01:44 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
I have found this stat to be very instructive (GF% = GF / (GF+GA)).
55% would mean that 55 GF are score while 45 GA are scored.

Desharnais went from being first in 2011-12 to 10th.

It does not show quality of opposition.
And if you went deeper with your stats from your link, you'd see that Desharnais faced relatively easy opposition (Hart QOC) and benefited from offensive zone starts (OZFO%) aka he was being sheltered just as Galchenyuk was last year.

Does he play on the PK? No. Does he play defensively? No. Does he impose himself physically? No. He seems to have improved on faceoffs, I'll give him that. But apart from that, he's contributing ZERO to the team right now.

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10-14-2013, 03:17 AM
  #157
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Tortorella objected to perceived delay tactics by Montreal coach Michel Therrien just before a penalty to Hamhuis and Plekanec's key insurance marker. Two Habs went to the bench to get sticks after Therrien was not allowed to call a timeout because he had used one earlier in the game.

"The referees understand there's no timeouts by the other team," said Tortorella. "I've never seen two players go get two sticks, and Michel came along and had a conversation. It was like Abbott and Costello. But he did his job. That's a coach trying to do his job and the refs allowed him to do it."

Tortorella said he tried to stop the move, but failed.

"I was yelling: 'Don't let him play you. Don't let him play you.' But he played them, right to the bitter end."


http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...094/story.html

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10-14-2013, 05:31 AM
  #158
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Tortorella objected to perceived delay tactics by Montreal coach Michel Therrien just before a penalty to Hamhuis and Plekanec's key insurance marker. Two Habs went to the bench to get sticks after Therrien was not allowed to call a timeout because he had used one earlier in the game.

"The referees understand there's no timeouts by the other team," said Tortorella. "I've never seen two players go get two sticks, and Michel came along and had a conversation. It was like Abbott and Costello. But he did his job. That's a coach trying to do his job and the refs allowed him to do it."

Tortorella said he tried to stop the move, but failed.

"I was yelling: 'Don't let him play you. Don't let him play you.' But he played them, right to the bitter end."


http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...094/story.html
there's that at least with Torts, he won't spew "typical Montreal" B.S. or anything, he just tells it like it is.

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10-14-2013, 07:39 AM
  #159
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Geez has there ever been a bigger whiner?

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10-14-2013, 08:23 AM
  #160
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Wait, i want to see if I understand what many are saying here.

Going into the 5th game of the season A lot of you guys want to fire a coach that took a team that finished 28th the year before and brought them last year to 2nd in the East and 4th overall in the league? Is that what you guys want to do? Does the word bi-polar mean anything to you guys?

There are some things that Therrien has done I don't agree with: BIG BIG example breaking up the LAB line(formerly known as the EGG line) and guess what? I was wrong and he was right.

I also blew a stack when I saw Boullion on the ice the last minute of a game we were trailing by one goal but a poster here made an excellent point. Gorges was hurt, Subban was in the box, two d-men had just come off the ice so what was Therrein suppose to do? Ask the refs to replace Boullion for Subban in the penalty box?

Therrien has to play the cards he is dealt and so far - even though I and many of you think we can do a better job - he has done a superlative job.

Before we call for MT's head shouldn't we at least wait till the team plays double digit games(I'd say 10 maybe 11 games) and has fallen to 5-6th place in the conference? It would make some of you guys look less bi-polar.

And this is coming from someone who was not a Therrien fan when he was hired by Bergevin.

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10-14-2013, 09:04 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Wait, i want to see if I understand what many are saying here.

Going into the 5th game of the season A lot of you guys want to fire a coach that took a team that finished 28th the year before and brought them last year to 2nd in the East and 4th overall in the league? Is that what you guys want to do? Does the word bi-polar mean anything to you guys?

There are some things that Therrien has done I don't agree with: BIG BIG example breaking up the LAB line(formerly known as the EGG line) and guess what? I was wrong and he was right.

I also blew a stack when I saw Boullion on the ice the last minute of a game we were trailing by one goal but a poster here made an excellent point. Gorges was hurt, Subban was in the box, two d-men had just come off the ice so what was Therrein suppose to do? Ask the refs to replace Boullion for Subban in the penalty box?

Therrien has to play the cards he is dealt and so far - even though I and many of you think we can do a better job - he has done a superlative job.

Before we call for MT's head shouldn't we at least wait till the team plays double digit games(I'd say 10 maybe 11 games) and has fallen to 5-6th place in the conference? It would make some of you guys look less bi-polar.

And this is coming from someone who was not a Therrien fan when he was hired by Bergevin.
It's only bi-polar if we actually thought Therrien was an amazing coach last year. Many of us thought the team was going to rebound and become a playoff team regardless of how good/bad Therrien did. I really disliked the Therrien hire at the time but can admit he's been better than I thought. But that doesn't mean he's been very good and beyond criticism. Especially since a lot of the issues we have as a team are self-inflicted like our PK is struggling because Therrien doesn't put Subban on it.

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10-14-2013, 09:07 AM
  #162
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there's that at least with Torts, he won't spew "typical Montreal" B.S. or anything, he just tells it like it is.
Absolulely. Therrien does what it takes for his team. Tortorella will do the same. He,s clearly blaming the refs here and they deserve it.

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10-14-2013, 10:13 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Wait, i want to see if I understand what many are saying here.

Going into the 5th game of the season A lot of you guys want to fire a coach that took a team that finished 28th the year before and brought them last year to 2nd in the East and 4th overall in the league? Is that what you guys want to do? Does the word bi-polar mean anything to you guys?

There are some things that Therrien has done I don't agree with: BIG BIG example breaking up the LAB line(formerly known as the EGG line) and guess what? I was wrong and he was right.

I also blew a stack when I saw Boullion on the ice the last minute of a game we were trailing by one goal but a poster here made an excellent point. Gorges was hurt, Subban was in the box, two d-men had just come off the ice so what was Therrein suppose to do? Ask the refs to replace Boullion for Subban in the penalty box?

Therrien has to play the cards he is dealt and so far - even though I and many of you think we can do a better job - he has done a superlative job.

Before we call for MT's head shouldn't we at least wait till the team plays double digit games(I'd say 10 maybe 11 games) and has fallen to 5-6th place in the conference? It would make some of you guys look less bi-polar.

And this is coming from someone who was not a Therrien fan when he was hired by Bergevin.
Not sure people want him fired already, but there will always be fans with extremely short leashes. I remember some wanted Martin fired before he even started.
Where you stand doesn't really mean much. NJ fired Julien when they were 2nd.

However, Therrien has taken head scratching decisions. He isn't free of criticism.
Neither is Bergevin, but I don't think anybody wants him fired.

I don't think I can do a better job than Therrien, I'm not a coach. I have never had to do bench management or create strategies. But I can certainly point out things I wouldn't have done and think are wrong.

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10-14-2013, 11:11 AM
  #164
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There are some things that Therrien has done I don't agree with: BIG BIG example breaking up the LAB line(formerly known as the EGG line) and guess what? I was wrong and he was right.
Why was he right? 'Cause that EGG line wasn't working? I still disagree with that. Let the vets deal with themselves, put Pleks with MaxPac and Brière. Put DD with Gio and Bourque. Keep Eller with the kids.

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10-14-2013, 11:35 AM
  #165
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Why was he right? 'Cause that EGG line wasn't working? I still disagree with that. Let the vets deal with themselves, put Pleks with MaxPac and Brière. Put DD with Gio and Bourque. Keep Eller with the kids.
A coaches job is to get the whole team going... he can't play the EGG's for the the whole game.

Honestly I'd like to see Briere get some time with the Gally's they seem to be good for everyone's game.

Bourque Eller Patches
Gionta Pleks Prust
Gally Briere Gally
Bournival White Moen
Time for DD to watch a couple from the press box

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10-14-2013, 11:51 AM
  #166
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A coaches job is to get the whole team going... he can't play the EGG's for the the whole game.

Honestly I'd like to see Briere get some time with the Gally's they seem to be good for everyone's game.

Bourque Eller Patches
Gionta Pleks Prust
Gally Briere Gally
Bournival White Moen
Time for DD to watch a couple from the press box
Yet, it's not like Pleks looked incredibly great on that line. Did we see Bourque or MaxPac much? Did Brière looked great? Honestly, changing lines didn't change anything. I think we even saw Eller a little less. Don't believe it's helping. And if Pleks cannot get it going with Bourque and Max Pac, we have a big problem. We kept saying how Pleks never gets 2 quality wingers, that is suppose to be quality wingers there.

One thing is sure though for me....it is time to see Brière on C.

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10-14-2013, 12:04 PM
  #167
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One thing is sure though for me....it is time to see Brière on C.
Just like Flyers fans told us: Briere doesn't play wing, he's better at C. Even though we had more than enough #2 Cs, even though Briere is old and weak and soft, even though we absolutely didn't need him.

Bergevin.

If Desharnais doesn't sit (or isn't converted to winger) I don't know if anybody can still defend the two idiots running this team.

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10-14-2013, 12:08 PM
  #168
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Just like Flyers fans told us: Briere doesn't play wing, he's better at C. Even though we had more than enough #2 Cs, even though Briere is old and weak and soft, even though we absolutely didn't need him.

Bergevin.

If Desharnais doesn't sit (or isn't converted to winger) I don't know if anybody can still defend the two idiots running this team.
As everyone knows, I wasn't happy with the Briere move. But that doesn't mean I wanted to see him struggle. I really hope he can turn things around because right now that signing is looking even worse than I thought it would be.

It's not that he's been bad either, he's just been... invisible. I don't even notice him out there.

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10-14-2013, 12:17 PM
  #169
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As everyone knows, I wasn't happy with the Briere move. But that doesn't mean I wanted to see him struggle. I really hope he can turn things around because right now that signing is looking even worse than I thought it would be.

It's not that he's been bad either, he's just been... invisible. I don't even notice him out there.
I agree with this. I'm rooting hard for him to do something while he's on the ice, but he just hasn't done anything noteworthy since he got here, confirming some of my fears. I feel like he's a step behind the play and everytime the puck is cycled to him, the play dies. I'm not impressed, so far.

As for Therrien. I didn't see the need to break up Eller's line immediately. It was working, try swaping Desharnais and Plekanec and see if that works first before breaking up your hottest line.

As for his coaching, it's hard to be upset with him when he doesn't have much to work with on the backend right now. That being said, I'm not a fan of the swarm system. For me, my biggest problem is that it takes him too long to adjust and he has difficulty punishing his "boys".

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10-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #170
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Yet, it's not like Pleks looked incredibly great on that line. Did we see Bourque or MaxPac much? Did Brière looked great? Honestly, changing lines didn't change anything. I think we even saw Eller a little less. Don't believe it's helping. And if Pleks cannot get it going with Bourque and Max Pac, we have a big problem. We kept saying how Pleks never gets 2 quality wingers, that is suppose to be quality wingers there.

One thing is sure though for me....it is time to see Brière on C.
Plekanec looked better than when with Bourque/Gionta, Patches was more visible as well, even DD had a better game next to Prust/Bourque...

and the new the lines didnt change anything ? come on now...

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10-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #171
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Plekanec looked better than when with Bourque/Gionta, Patches was more visible as well, even DD had a better game next to Prust/Bourque...

and the new the lines didnt change anything ? come on now...
DD having a better game, as I also said, has nothing to do with dismembering the Eller line. Then you come out with "looking more visible", well I guess it the becomes strickly subjective and I'm going to say that it didn't transpire stats wise on even strenght and that I still prefer to keep Eller with the kids and let the vets deal with their problems. Not that long ago, the whining was that Pleks never gets to play with good wingers. He'd get Bourque and Pacioretty. What's the problem here?

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10-14-2013, 12:43 PM
  #172
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DD having a better game, as I also said, has nothing to do with dismembering the Eller line. Then you come out with "looking more visible", well I guess it the becomes strickly subjective and I'm going to say that it didn't transpire stats wise on even strenght and that I still prefer to keep Eller with the kids and let the vets deal with their problems. Not that long ago, the whining was that Pleks never gets to play with good wingers. He'd get Bourque and Pacioretty. What's the problem here?
stats doesn't tell the whole story of a game either. For like the past 40 games if not more, our best wingers have been Galchenyuk and Gallagher.

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10-14-2013, 12:45 PM
  #173
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DD having a better game, as I also said, has nothing to do with dismembering the Eller line. Then you come out with "looking more visible", well I guess it the becomes strickly subjective and I'm going to say that it didn't transpire stats wise on even strenght and that I still prefer to keep Eller with the kids and let the vets deal with their problems. Not that long ago, the whining was that Pleks never gets to play with good wingers. He'd get Bourque and Pacioretty. What's the problem here?
All 3 probably liked playing 15+ minutes... no need to shelter them as much as Eller is playing with experienced wingers and the kids are playing with a more experienced C.

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10-14-2013, 12:54 PM
  #174
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Okay so....it was stupid to put DD on the 4th line but it's okay to put Brière on it? Is Brière going to be DESTROYED because of it?

https://twitter.com/MAGodin/status/389810959252217856

Les trios à l'entraînement: Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher, Pacioretty-Eller-Gionta, Bourque-Desharnais-Prust, Moen-Bournival-Brière (White)

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10-14-2013, 12:59 PM
  #175
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Okay so....it was stupid to put DD on the 4th line but it's okay to put Brière on it? Is Brière going to be DESTROYED because of it?

https://twitter.com/MAGodin/status/389810959252217856

Les trios à l'entraînement: Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher, Pacioretty-Eller-Gionta, Bourque-Desharnais-Prust, Moen-Bournival-Brière (White)
This just confirms how poor of a fit Briere was to begin with. There was no reason to sign him. Desharnais can't play with another smallish winger, but the problem is that everyone on the right side is small (Gallagher, Gionta, Briere). There was simply no room for a Briere type of player, this is what is most frustrating about the signing.

Unless Bergevin really had a plan to move DD, it was just the opposite move of what he should have made.

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