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Fire AV, Fire Sather. This is a bad hockey team.

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Old
10-14-2013, 03:49 PM
  #351
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyMollyOxenFree View Post






Other teams use the draft to add skill to their lineup. They build their top lines/d-pairings through the draft, and fill in their 3rd/4th lines/bottom d-pairings through free agency.

The Rangers use the draft to add grinders to their lineup. They build their 3rd/4th lines through the draft, and have been attempting to use free agency to add skill to their lineup for what seems like an eternity.


Not sure how much of the drafting strategy had to do with Torts' system, but the lack of skill/hockey IQ on this team is very apparent.

I think your comment on the Rangers drafting is completely off.

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10-14-2013, 03:56 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Where are these 3rd/4th liners you speak of? What you seem to referring to is 2nd/3rd line tweeners that unceremoniously get pushed down to the bottom 6 because they can't score enough to stay in the top 6. It doesn't mean they have the specific skills needed to play on the 3rd/4th lines.
Agreed. Maybe grinders and 3rd/4th liners weren't the correct terms to use.

Quote:
Truth be told, the situation is even more dire than you suggested. I WISH this team could develop 3rd/4th liners.
The situation is pretty dire in my opinion.

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Old
10-14-2013, 06:30 PM
  #353
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Right now our team resembles many of those Toronto Maple Leaf teams from the 70's through till 2 years ago before they were rebuilt by Burke . That is just how inept we actually are to draw that comparison .

Our team is still in dinosaur mode with Sather and our scouting sucks and we have no studs waiting to be called up . We had no 1st rounder last season or 2nd for that matter . We have no power forwards on our team...but RC does try very hard...no overly physical blueliners...no PP shooting dman or elite passer...no scrappers that can change the tune of a game...and no contract for the ONLY guy that has carried this team for the last 6 seasons . That spells INEPT in so many ways it is not funny anymore .

We don't just need a new GM...we need a new owner who might have a clue as to what is going on around him .

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10-14-2013, 06:32 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
We don't just need a new GM...we need a new owner who might have a clue as to what is going on around him .
Tell me how you fix that one!

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Old
10-14-2013, 06:38 PM
  #355
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I wish I knew...cheering for this team for over 40 years does take a toll .

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Old
10-14-2013, 06:53 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
I wish I knew...cheering for this team for over 40 years does take a toll .
I'm with you brother!

When I started watching the games were in black & white!

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Old
10-14-2013, 07:28 PM
  #357
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Everyone seems to want Sather gone. I don't disagree, but tyhe fish rots from the head down. Every team that Dolan has touched has turned to s**t.

Look at all the NY teams (I haven't lived in NY in 16 years, but I still root for them since I spent 40 years thereas a native). Jets, Mets, Knicks, Nets, Giants, not one has a prayer of winning a championship. Possibly because of the presence of so much media, athletes get completely over-rated in NY. Good players become "HOF'ers". Mediocre players are good, etc. I remeber Ron Duguay when he came up. A good player, big, fast but without great scoring skills. Yet according to the team and the media, he was the greatest hockey player since Gordie Howe. I think of Carmelo Anthony, the "face" of the Knicks. Sure, he has great talent, but he can't/won't pass the ball, is streaky, doesn't play defense or rebound much, and keeps the Knicks as the 4th or 5th best team in the conference - not lousy enough to get studs in the draft, but never more than a one or two and done in the playoffs.

Seems to me the Rangers need better ownership, committed to building a winner instead of just making a buck, a GM with a long-term plan, not just a quick-fix mentality, and realistic appraisals of players.

It may also be that a lot of free agents don't want to come to NY becuase of the taxes and high cost of living - the reality is that life is so much better elsewhere, IMHO.

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Old
10-14-2013, 08:06 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
5 games in... this thread is ridiculous.

New coach. Completely new philosophy. Players need to get used to playing a different system.

For Hank - new pad regulations that directly impact his play. He has clearly not gotten used to them either. He also historically starts years off slow before he picks it up.

For defense - new defensive coach in Samuellson. Little-no emphasis on shot blocking.

Moral - team needs time to adjust. Only thing going against AV, in my opinion, is his lack of a mean streak. This is NY. Fans like grit. Can't have your best player head hunted with no retaliation. Can't be embarrassed by a rookie with no retaliation. Can't lose 9-2 and 6-0 and not have an emotional reaction. This is NY. That won't fly for long.

Take all of that and add in brutal training camp and regular season schedule. This is going understated or totally not understood. They were on the west coast for most of there preseason games, then flew back for like 3 or 4 days. THEN flew back to the west coast to face the cream of the crop of the west(with the exception of Chicago). Everyone hates excuses i know.. but do you understand how bad that screwed with there internal clocks?? Not to mention alot of these guys have young children who they were away from for a really long time.. As a father, even if i was a millionaire that **** would **** with my head.

My hope is the garden crowd doesnt just immediatley start booing before the puck drops on opening night.

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Old
10-14-2013, 08:31 PM
  #360
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Its only one of the many mistake SATHER has made, and now its time for the light to be shined on him and his inability to be fired even with all his mistakes in signings. I agree we gave up to much for Nash, but thats not the only issue, I dont care if Richards has put some points up, he sucks and should be bought out. We are badly missing Hagelin, Pouliout is awful, Dorset is pretty bad, as is Asham. Honestly its a mess and does not look like it could get better.


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 10-14-2013 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Took out Circumvention
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Old
10-14-2013, 08:34 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
5 games in... this thread is ridiculous.

New coach. Completely new philosophy. Players need to get used to playing a different system.

For Hank - new pad regulations that directly impact his play. He has clearly not gotten used to them either. He also historically starts years off slow before he picks it up.

For defense - new defensive coach in Samuellson. Little-no emphasis on shot blocking.

Moral - team needs time to adjust. Only thing going against AV, in my opinion, is his lack of a mean streak. This is NY. Fans like grit. Can't have your best player head hunted with no retaliation. Can't be embarrassed by a rookie with no retaliation. Can't lose 9-2 and 6-0 and not have an emotional reaction. This is NY. That won't fly for long.
Its not crazy, imagine paying or wasting time watching these awful games. i dont care if they are the west coast, ability to show some potential is not there, i forgot to mention, Dominic Moore also is really useless dont know why we took him back.

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Old
10-14-2013, 08:55 PM
  #363
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I'm as impatient as any fan out there, but we really gotta let this system/new coaching staff be implemented before making any assumptions and blowing the team up. This team has tremendous talent and key players throughout the lineup as well as the best goalie in the world. The passing and transitional game has improved a ton and the power play seems to finally realize that shooting and moving is the key.

We all know how gifted our defensemen are and I believe once they get a grasp of this new system, these outrageous mistakes will stop happening. Give it a little patience people.

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Old
10-14-2013, 09:06 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
We have ridiculous talent. Undeniable
I think you forgot a word or two in these sentences.


Last edited by showjaxx: 10-14-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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Old
10-14-2013, 09:12 PM
  #365
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It's one thing to struggle with a new system. It's quite another to flat out not compete for large stretches, even games. It's another thing to show zero mental resiliency. Zero ability to fight back when pushed.

That more than anything is what I find unsettling. At times they look completely demoralized. Already.

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10-14-2013, 09:25 PM
  #367
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I have to disagree with you folks that say we have ridiculous talent. Yes Lundqvist, but tell me whose talent level is ridiculous among our forwards. Rick Nash? Our best forward. Is he a top 15 winger in the league? Brad Richards is our top left winger? This is one of the least talented group of forwards I can remember.

For this team to succeed, AV will need a miracle.

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10-14-2013, 09:26 PM
  #368
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Bring back Avery!




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Old
10-14-2013, 09:40 PM
  #369
showjaxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Just how I structure my thoughts.
This was my point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by beef 4 lunch View Post
I have to disagree with you folks that say we have ridiculous talent. Yes Lundqvist, but tell me whose talent level is ridiculous among our forwards.

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10-14-2013, 10:02 PM
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Healey felt Sather was more interested in helping the Banff flood victims than the Rangers. He had the Rangers spend 5 days in Banff for training camp and they participated in a golf tournament to raise money. Those are 4-5 days the team could have spent in NY.



http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...rald+-+News%29

They raised $250,000. Sather and his wife could have written a check from their own funds to help the Alberta flood victims.
I agree, that was a major screw up by Sather. They have a tough October schedule because of the garden renovations. Sending them to Western Canada in the preseason and making their travel even worse was a ridiculous decision.

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Old
10-14-2013, 10:11 PM
  #371
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Sather=jackass. There. Cleared!

Team needs to really, really start up here

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10-14-2013, 10:14 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beef 4 lunch View Post
I have to disagree with you folks that say we have ridiculous talent. Yes Lundqvist, but tell me whose talent level is ridiculous among our forwards. Rick Nash? Our best forward. Is he a top 15 winger in the league? Brad Richards is our top left winger? This is one of the least talented group of forwards I can remember.

For this team to succeed, AV will need a miracle.


The greatest delusion of the optimistic NYR fan is our level of talent. BTW, not sure how you exist given 1 success in the last 73 years.

The goalie is elite, the defense is just above average, and the forwards are well below average. This team played WAY above its talent two years ago - an enormous effort that was exhausting - grind, grind, grind. Couldn't do it again, too exhausting and disappointing to repeat.

It's not fun watching this team over the last 15 years - always a new excuse for why we're close but not quite good enough. Let me let you in on a little secret, we're not CLOSE.

Gretzky was the last team that had a shot - as a cinderella story with a legends last run. Now THAT was fun to watch. This sucks year after year after year.

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Old
10-14-2013, 10:17 PM
  #373
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It's cause upper management has an ass for a head.

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Old
10-15-2013, 06:46 AM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
They aren't ready for the NHL. Its plain as day. Stop projecting this fantasy just because they are young prospects. They need big minutes in the AHL to develop, period.
In regards to Krieder and Miller. Your take does not make sense. They could be getting these same big minutes right now in the NHL given that Nash is out! No one has ever developed playing against lesser competition like that in the AHL. Making the AHL all star team means- well it means you are great compared to second tier guys. I don't have that as my goal for Miler and Krieder.

Plus, what's the alternative right now? Continue to trot out Taylor Pyatt on the top 2 lines? He can't even keep up with the guys he's skating with.

My only point is now's the time to see what these guys have playing with top players. But no, let's see what guys who have proven try are horrible can do with these top 6 type players- makes sense.

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10-15-2013, 07:15 AM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHS View Post
In regards to Krieder and Miller. Your take does not make sense. They could be getting these same big minutes right now in the NHL given that Nash is out! No one has ever developed playing against lesser competition like that in the AHL. Making the AHL all star team means- well it means you are great compared to second tier guys. I don't have that as my goal for Miler and Krieder.

Plus, what's the alternative right now? Continue to trot out Taylor Pyatt on the top 2 lines? He can't even keep up with the guys he's skating with.

My only point is now's the time to see what these guys have playing with top players. But no, let's see what guys who have proven try are horrible can do with these top 6 type players- makes sense.
I think some posters, like me, are just hesitant to throw young players into the middle of this **** show right now. Let the vets work this out and see if they can turn it around. They are supposed to be pros after all. What top line players do we have to play them with anyway? Keep in mind that most top line players on this team wouldn't be considered so on other, more properly constructed teams.

I don't think we have top line talent waiting in the wings but I also don't believe we have a bunch of duds either. If they continue to play like this after a few home games and against teams in our division then I think you really start shaking things up. Until then it's on the existing core and the coach to right the ship, putting pressure on young players to come in and turn this around could be detrimental to their development, not just skill wise but mentally as well.

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