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Rangers season at crossroads--already

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Old
10-11-2013, 01:26 PM
  #351
Anthony Mauro
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Being outscored 2-15 in 2 games is actually more of the issue than being 1-3. 1-3 I could handle if it wasn't back to back blowouts with no signs of life or improvement.
What you highlight is one of the bigger issues. Another, comes with a glance at the current lineup.

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Old
10-11-2013, 01:27 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Being outscored 2-15 in 2 games is actually more of the issue than being 1-3. 1-3 I could handle if it wasn't back to back blowouts with no signs of life or improvement.

Exactly. Our games have been:

1-4
3-1
2-9
0-6

If they had been:

1-4
3-1
2-4
0-2

You would see virtually EVERYONE being willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, say it's a new coach, new system, road trip, good teams, etc. Those excuses simply don't fly in 9-2 and 6-0 games. We don't belong on the same ice as our opponent recently.

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Old
10-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What youre saying is a lie. A flat out lie.

OT and Shootout losses get you points. 9-2 and 6-0 losses dont.

I said 1-3. I did not say 2 points. An OT loss is still a loss despite getting 1 point

You should look in to bearing false witness.

If you wanted me to be more specific you should have asked politely.

Last season we started 1-3 with a OT win vs Boston
The season before we started out 0-1-2 with two OT loses
The season before we started out 1-2-1 with a OT loss

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Old
10-11-2013, 01:52 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Being outscored 2-15 in 2 games is actually more of the issue than being 1-3. 1-3 I could handle if it wasn't back to back blowouts with no signs of life or improvement.
I totally agree and understand. I'm concerned as well but thankfully the games only count as 1 loss each just like our blow out wins towards the end of last season only counted as 1 win each.

I remember the Boston Massacre when the Lakers dominated the Celtics. Many people do. What most people do not remember is the Celtics ended up winning the championship that year.

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10-11-2013, 02:58 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
I said 1-3. I did not say 2 points. An OT loss is still a loss despite getting 1 point

You should look in to bearing false witness.

If you wanted me to be more specific you should have asked politely.

Last season we started 1-3 with a OT win vs Boston
The season before we started out 0-1-2 with two OT loses
The season before we started out 1-2-1 with a OT loss
Try this on for size, and keep trying to perpetuate that every loss is equal.

NHL Public Relations @PR_NHL

From @EliasSports: The NYR are first team since the Thrashers (Nov. 2000) to lose consecutive games in the same season by 6 goals or more

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Old
10-11-2013, 03:18 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by PK Pilot 76 View Post
Sure, they kind of quit on Torts at the end,
See, I disagree. The team never quit on Torts and continued to put in a full effort on all nights.
Quote:
Two years ago, we were very close to having 100% buy-in to Torts' system and at that point, we were at our peak.
Sorry, but again disagree. I think you had basically 100% buy in pre-Nash

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Old
10-11-2013, 03:44 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Try this on for size, and keep trying to perpetuate that every loss is equal.

NHL Public Relations @PR_NHL

From @EliasSports: The NYR are first team since the Thrashers (Nov. 2000) to lose consecutive games in the same season by 6 goals or more
Winners.

That's some elite company of terrible right there.

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Old
10-11-2013, 03:47 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
See, I disagree. The team never quit on Torts and continued to put in a full effort on all nights.

Sorry, but again disagree. I think you had basically 100% buy in pre-Nash

You disagree? Two years ago was pre-Nash. We're saying the same thing. The rest of the post you chose to take snippets from actually goes into detail about it being pre-Nash.

As for the "put in full effort on *all* nights" bit, I disagree. I agree that, especially compared to what we're seeing now, the team did continue to put in a GOOD effort on most nights, but if we could dig up old GDTs from last year, I have no doubt (and this is POST-Nash, so we're on the same page essentially) we would see a lot of games where the Rangers either came out really flat and won because of G + McD + Lundqvist and a late goal, or were unable to keep their effort up for 60 minutes. That's all I meant when I said they "sort of" quit on Torts at the end. I think at the end, we were seeing the effort drop off on some nights, but Torts was still keeping them in line. Now he's not here to do so, we see the real result of no effort.

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Old
10-11-2013, 04:16 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by savebyrichter420 View Post
Everyone wants to know this team's identity and who we are. I'll tell you who we are, we became the Columbus Blue Jackets! (snip)
You guys probably don't want this reinforced, but from a CBJ fan perspective this is exactly what it looks like. Over the past 5 seasons or so of CBJ hockey, I been thinking. My opinion, there are three types of players (or even people in any organization):
1) those that drive the bus
2) those that are passengers
3) those that cause conflict and problems

My thoughts concerning the CBJ was that there didn't appear to be anyone as a #1 type and really only an occasional #3 (Jeff Carter in Columbus, Mike Commodore) but rather a room full of #2 guys who would look around and expect the other guys to be a #1.

Nash was always said to be a "lead by example" type rather than a vocal guy (a #2). Brassard and J. Moore probably are also #2s. Dorsett is debatable between a #1 & #2. But now that the ex-CBJ guys are back with Nash, they may be looking for him to lead again which would put Dorsett back as a #2 as well.

Between the trades with the Rangers, free agent signings, and a few more trades, it looks like Columbus has gotten a room full of #1s (so many that they haven't even named a captain since the Nash trade).

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10-11-2013, 04:21 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbjgirl View Post
You guys probably don't want this reinforced, but from a CBJ fan perspective this is exactly what it looks like. Over the past 5 seasons or so of CBJ hockey, I been thinking. My opinion, there are three types of players (or even people in any organization):
1) those that drive the bus
2) those that are passengers
3) those that cause conflict and problems

My thoughts concerning the CBJ was that there didn't appear to be anyone as a #1 type and really only an occasional #3 (Jeff Carter in Columbus, Mike Commodore) but rather a room full of #2 guys who would look around and expect the other guys to be a #1.

Nash was always said to be a "lead by example" type rather than a vocal guy (a #2). Brassard and J. Moore probably are also #2s. Dorsett is debatable between a #1 & #2. But now that the ex-CBJ guys are back with Nash, they may be looking for him to lead again which would put Dorsett back as a #2 as well.

Between the trades with the Rangers, free agent signings, and a few more trades, it looks like Columbus has gotten a room full of #1s (so many that they haven't even named a captain since the Nash trade).
pretty good analysis of the situation. Someone needs to step the **** up and take on a leadership role, and soon.

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Old
10-11-2013, 04:37 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
pretty good analysis of the situation. Someone needs to step the **** up and take on a leadership role, and soon.
I agree. We need a player or 2 to step up as leaders not the coach. Wish we had Messier or Beck.

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10-11-2013, 04:43 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
I agree. We need a player or 2 to step up as leaders not the coach. Wish we had Messier or Beck.
how great would it be to have a guy like Beck on the blueline right now.

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10-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
I agree. We need a player or 2 to step up as leaders not the coach. Wish we had Messier or Beck.
Shoot the puck, Barry!

I really hope it's just a system adjustment thing and not a motivational thing.

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Old
10-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
how great would it be to have a guy like Beck on the blueline right now.
It would be awesome in so many ways. He would shut down half the ice and make sure no nonsense took place by the other team. We could also use his blast from the point.

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10-11-2013, 04:55 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by McD27 View Post
Shoot the puck, Barry!

I really hope it's just a system adjustment thing and not a motivational thing.
It may be a combination of many factors but we could also be at 500 sooner rather than later.

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10-11-2013, 06:21 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
It may be a combination of many factors but we could also be at 500 sooner rather than later.
Possible but I think most of us are concern because of the lopsided losses and not the 1-3 record. And to see our best player (hank) not playing up to his standard adds to that concern. Add to that Nash maybe out for an extended period of time and you have a real recipe for disaster. I hope it's really just a getting used to the system thing.

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Old
10-11-2013, 08:03 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Not sure what your point is.
Point is often you don't know what you had until it is gone. The guy was far from perfect but he had great qualities to coach in New York and "keep it real". It was disappointing that so many bought in to the opinion that he had to go. I would have thought more would fiercely support the positive aspects of his tenure. Players and fans. Keenan was a jerk too but he was lucky enough to have the likes of Messier, Graves and Leech on his team. In my view, Torts was "our" jerk. He could have won here. Now we are back in uncharted water. Oh well.....

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:40 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
Point is often you don't know what you had until it is gone. The guy was far from perfect but he had great qualities to coach in New York and "keep it real". It was disappointing that so many bought in to the opinion that he had to go. I would have thought more would fiercely support the positive aspects of his tenure. Players and fans. Keenan was a jerk too but he was lucky enough to have the likes of Messier, Graves and Leech on his team. In my view, Torts was "our" jerk. He could have won here. Now we are back in uncharted water. Oh well.....
Jerk or no jerk, he was a good coach.

Sather, as he is want to do and as has been well documented here, makes knee jerk reactions as well as changes for the sake of making changes. If you are going to make a change, shouldn't you upgrade? There is NOTHING that shows that AV was an upgrade to Torts.

And now the Rangers are paying the price.

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:46 AM
  #369
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I think that if this team doesn't tun this around in the next 5 games, there will be more changes coming and we may look back and say that it was a crossroads.

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10-15-2013, 09:46 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Jerk or no jerk, he was a good coach.

Sather, as he is want to do and as has been well documented here, makes knee jerk reactions as well as changes for the sake of making changes. If you are going to make a change, shouldn't you upgrade? There is NOTHING that shows that AV was an upgrade to Torts.

And now the Rangers are paying the price.
Torts couldn't coach in NYC anymore. The players tuned him out and he alienated key guys. Plus there was a fundamental coaching problem where he and Sullivan could not develop the power play. He had to go, no doubt about that. We need to give AV at least 20 games before we can make any sort of evaluation since the team is still learning the system and they haven't even played at home yet

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:49 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I think that if this team doesn't tun this around in the next 5 games, there will be more changes coming and we may look back and say that it was a crossroads.
The frightening thing is just how FAR they need to go to turning it around. Two things that the Rangers did not have to worry for the last 4 years or so were hard work each night and being fundamentally sound. And these 5 games have been an absolute abomination. The team is resembling the teams that were unrootable for in the dark years.

I mean we are talking about seeing improvements against the Blues? They lost and let in 5 goals. What improvements? They showed good effort in the second period? That's improvement? That was never even something to be thought of in recent times.

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:51 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Torts couldn't coach in NYC anymore. The players tuned him out and he alienated key guys. Plus there was a fundamental coaching problem where he and Sullivan could not develop the power play. He had to go, no doubt about that. We need to give AV at least 20 games before we can make any sort of evaluation since the team is still learning the system and they haven't even played at home yet
Umm....what was his record? How many times did the team show no effort under him? How many other Rangers coaches can you point to that had his level of success and success in the playoffs?

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10-15-2013, 09:58 AM
  #373
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Umm....what was his record? How many times did the team show no effort under him? How many other Rangers coaches can you point to that had his level of success and success in the playoffs?
And judging by the way they're started the season is fairly telling too.

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Old
10-15-2013, 10:10 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Torts couldn't coach in NYC anymore. The players tuned him out and he alienated key guys. Plus there was a fundamental coaching problem where he and Sullivan could not develop the power play. He had to go, no doubt about that. We need to give AV at least 20 games before we can make any sort of evaluation since the team is still learning the system and they haven't even played at home yet
If you insist that the team tuned Tortorella out, then what do you call this?

Surely you can't call losing games 9-2 or 6-0 a system flap?

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Old
10-15-2013, 12:20 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you insist that the team tuned Tortorella out, then what do you call this?

Surely you can't call losing games 9-2 or 6-0 a system flap?
They never tuned him out. Chafed, yes. But never tuned out. Because Torts was the model of consistency. If you did not play EXACTLY the way that he wanted, you were either 1) benched 2) demoted 3) scratched. And he did not waver no matter who you were.

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