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Old
10-15-2013, 01:02 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I don't understand why people
seem to think that Miller on the 4th line means he can't show something. Remember when Anisimov played on the 4th line with Shelley? He looked awesome and basically made it clear that he deserved to play with better players. Why don't we expect the same thing out of Miller instead of sitting here complaining that the players he'll be with suck?
I missed this earlier.

You certainly make a valid point regarding seizing the opportunity and forcing a promotion to an increased role. I think it's just a matter of our fourth line being a black hole for so long, that's it's basically seen that a rookie placed on that line is being setup to fail.

There's also the fact that guys like Pyatt and Pouliot don't really do much at all, and it sometimes seems like they're being handed a spot. Why not hand it to a kid? I don't necessarily subscribe to this line of thinking, but a lot of folks here do.

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10-15-2013, 01:05 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So, for the record, 2 NHL coaches think Miller and Kreider should be in the AHL, and you think they should be up playing, replacing Boyle and Pyatt.

You are championing change just for the sake of change. These 2 NHL coaches, one of whom has won a Stanley Cup and one who has been to a final game 7, know more than you do.
I'm championing change because there needs to be change.

This coach, who went to a Stanley Cup final game 7... he didn't play with 6 4th liners on that team.

He needed speed. He needed talent. Boyle, in a 4th line role, is fine. Boyle in a 2nd line role, is atrocious. You need goals from 2nd liners. Not board play.

I'm not claiming I know more than these 2 coaches. I'm claiming I know more than you.

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10-15-2013, 01:07 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
As much as you hate to admit it, Boyle and Pyatt are safer bets than Miller and Kreider. Any coach trying to keep his NHL job would likely agree (especially given Sather's persistent 'win now' mandate). A whining arm-chair fan likely wouldn't agree.
Agreed. No idea how people can think otherwise.

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10-15-2013, 01:08 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I'm championing change because there needs to be change.

This coach, who went to a Stanley Cup final game 7... he didn't play with 6 4th liners on that team.

He needed speed. He needed talent. Boyle, in a 4th line role, is fine. Boyle in a 2nd line role, is atrocious. You need goals from 2nd liners. Not board play.

I'm not claiming I know more than these 2 coaches. I'm claiming I know more than you.
Hang on. I just got curbed stomped for complaining about Boyle on the 2nd line. Are these *just* practice lines with no bearing on reality...or is Boyle really centering our 2nd line?

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10-15-2013, 01:08 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I'm championing change because there needs to be change.

This coach, who went to a Stanley Cup final game 7... he didn't play with 6 4th liners on that team.

He needed speed. He needed talent. Boyle, in a 4th line role, is fine. Boyle in a 2nd line role, is atrocious. You need goals from 2nd liners. Not board play.

I'm not claiming I know more than these 2 coaches. I'm claiming I know more than you.
Pretending that Miller and Kreider have NHL-caliber skill and ability, as you ignorantly are trying to portray, shows the exact opposite of any type of knowledge.

What separates us is Im smart enough to admit that aren't any solutions available. Im not going ahead and compounding that problem while screwing with 2 kids' development. 15-20 minutes of NHL time per game is no joke when you've shown the need to develop more.

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10-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Agreed. No idea how people can think otherwise.
So playing 2 4th line players on the 2nd line, while keeping 3 more 4th line players to play on the actual 4th line, is the safer bet than playing 2 rookies with NHL exposure and much more talent on the 2nd line?

And people wonder why we have an inability to score goals.

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10-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Pretending that Miller and Kreider have NHL-caliber skill and ability, as you ignorantly are trying to portray, shows the exact opposite of any type of knowledge.

What separates us is Im smart enough to admit that aren't any solutions available. Im not going ahead and compounding that problem while screwing with 2 kids' development. 15-20 minutes of NHL time per game is no joke when you've shown the need to develop more.
Boyle and Pyatt are lighting it up on the 2nd line. Really sustaining offensive pressure on defenses.

Miller is NHL ready. He's going to have mistakes. Most players make mistakes. Especially young ones.

Team has no pulse. Miller is playing like a man on a mission. Had nerves first game, held stick tight, didn't finish on chances, but was in correct positioning and provided energy. Has better vision, speed, stick handling, finishing ability, etc. than Boyle or Pyatt.

Kreider wasn't put in a position to succeed. He played one game on a good line last year, the only Rangers game they won against the Bruins. Put him with linemates that complement his abilities, he'll produce.

Richards + Nash together were terrible for his style of play. He picked up his play in final 2 preseason games.

Pouloit didn't show anything in preseason. Neither did Pyatt. Neither did Boyle.

You're comparing apples to oranges and trying to make it sound plausible. As 4th line players, fine. As 2nd line players, who's the safer bet to score you goals?

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10-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
So playing 2 4th line players on the 2nd line, while keeping 3 more 4th line players to play on the actual 4th line, is the safer bet than playing 2 rookies with NHL exposure and much more talent on the 2nd line?

And people wonder why we have an inability to score goals.
It is the safer bet because they are currently better players. Did Miller's mental game suddenly improve beyond his past Forrest Gump-level? He has been good in the AHL for a few games, but he needs to be there for a longer period of time.

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Old
10-15-2013, 01:15 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
People need to understand roles on a team.

Boyle and Pyatt are being handed not just top 9 forward minutes, but top 6.

Top, mother****ing, 6 minutes to stone hands Boyle and molasses skates Pyatt.

Pyatt is useless. He just never makes mistakes for people to rag on him. He's neither here nor there. Sometimes, if i'm just looking at the game from my peripherals, I mistake him for a referee on the ice - that unnoticeable.

Boyle on the other hand, deserves a spot on this team. He however, does not deserve top 9 minutes. People love to get on him because even the softest of passes will ricochet off of his stick and down the ice 60 feet. He plays with energy, he has a pulse, he's not a stick handler or a goal scorer. Yet he gets top 6 minutes. He's a safe bet over Pouloit and Pyatt. He's not a safe bet over Kreider or Miller as a skill forward.

Remove Pouloit. Remove Pyatt. Call up Miller. Call up Kreider. Play them with Callahan.

Too logical.
What has Kreider shown to deserve a call up and top 6 minutes?

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Old
10-15-2013, 01:15 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It is the safer bet because they are currently better players. Did Miller's mental game suddenly improve beyond his past Forrest Gump-level? He has been good in the AHL for a few games, but he needs to be there for a longer period of time.
Who is more likely to score a goal in 16 minutes of time?

Miller and Kreider. Or Boyle and Pyatt.

2nd line minutes. Who's more likely? Please answer.

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10-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
What has Kreider shown to deserve a call up and top 6 minutes?
He hasn't. But Boyle and Pyatt have proven they don't yet they're still on it.

My point is not to say that either Miller or Kreider deserve 2nd line minutes in general. It is that they deserve those minutes OVER Boyle and Pyatt.

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Old
10-15-2013, 01:18 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Who is more likely to score a goal in 16 minutes of time?

Miller and Kreider. Or Boyle and Pyatt.

2nd line minutes. Who's more likely? Please answer.
Who is more likely to be scored on?

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Old
10-15-2013, 01:20 PM
  #113
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Boyle has been one of our better players so far this year. I really don't understand why he's getting **** on so much.

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10-15-2013, 01:26 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Who is more likely to be scored on?
pyatt -6 boyle -1. miller +/- 0

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10-15-2013, 01:26 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
He hasn't. But Boyle and Pyatt have proven they don't yet they're still on it.

My point is not to say that either Miller or Kreider deserve 2nd line minutes in general. It is that they deserve those minutes OVER Boyle and Pyatt.
Boyle had a 20 goal season. He is capable of scoring. Is he a 2nd line C? Absolutely not but between his face off abilities and stellar defensive play, he is absolutely a great option.

I think you are really over doing it on Boyle and if possible being to kind to Pyatt. He is the one who I would happily replace with any of the kids.

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10-15-2013, 01:28 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Does He? They obviously have a lot of trust in him if there bringing him up over Kreider.

Miller is a NHL caliber player. Hes played good minutes in the NHL last year and is playing great in the AHL.

Yes, a lot of people could use more time in the AHL but did Callahan? Dubinsky? McDonagh? Didnt think so
Miller has played some solid minutes in the NHL, but not many.

When the guys you mention above came up, they contributed pretty consistently. All of them looked more complete as young players than Miller has looked.

We shall see. I hope he goes like gang busters.

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10-15-2013, 01:30 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
pyatt -6 boyle -1. miller +/- 0
Miller has also only played 1 game.

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10-15-2013, 01:31 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
pyatt -6 boyle -1. miller +/- 0
Haha, awesome one game sample there for Miller.

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10-15-2013, 01:33 PM
  #119
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I would rather my team lose with youngsters and allow them to grow together and learn together than lose with guys that have no future with the team.

I will 1000% concede that the better players today are Pyatt and Boyle when compared to Kreider and Miller.

I also believe 1000% that by the end of the year, Kreider and Miller will have taken in more about the NHL game and provided the Rangers with similar production while getting better at the game.

Old players get older (Boyle is not an OLD player) young players get better.

I think that guys CAN learn on the job so long as they the guys they are playing with know when to talk and when to ****.

As a prospect I like Miller more than Kreider. If center is where they see Miller long term, then put him with guys that can help him on the ice and cover for him when needed.

Hagelin - Miller - Callahan would make for a very good 3rd line with potential for a very very dangerous 2nd line.

I think that until Kreider gets it that the best use for a player his size is not to be a speedster but to be a physical force he's going to continue to struggle.

Take your big 6'4" 225lb arse and crash the net. Go there with ill intent and take two guys with you. Free up some space in the offensive zone for Stepan and Nash to work their magic.

don't be afraid to be a PITA to play against. Worst case is you get into a scrap... SO THE F WHAT.

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10-15-2013, 01:33 PM
  #120
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Did Vigneault have issues playing youngsters in Vancouver? May also explain why Pyatt/Boyle are getting more ice time.

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10-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Did Vigneault have issues playing youngsters in Vancouver? May also explain why Pyatt/Boyle are getting more ice time.
Seems like some of their fans believed he did while others believe he didn't so, basically, no definitive opinion.

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10-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #122
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AV said Miller could play his way into the top six...

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"I see J.T. (Miller) with a good skill-set, plenty of offensive potential..he'd be a possibility to move up (into Top 6)-Alain Vigneault

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10-15-2013, 01:40 PM
  #123
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AV said Miller could play his way into the top six...
That's good to hear.

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10-15-2013, 01:40 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Did Vigneault have issues playing youngsters in Vancouver? May also explain why Pyatt/Boyle are getting more ice time.
most of the Canucks team, were young when he was hired by the Canucks like Burrows, Hansen, Raymond Tanev etc...

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10-15-2013, 01:42 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Who is more likely to score a goal in 16 minutes of time?

Miller and Kreider. Or Boyle and Pyatt.

2nd line minutes. Who's more likely? Please answer.
To me, Kreider is the most likely out of any of them with the other three being relatively equal. However, neither Kreider nor Miller are ready and I'd prefer them to play in the AHL. If we have roughly equivalent vets, I'd rather play the vets until the kids are ready. Why should we rush our top prospects?

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