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Holmgren: Pronger “is never going to play again”

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Old
10-15-2013, 02:21 PM
  #26
Hiesenberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Yes, the Pronger injury was a freak accident.

This doesn't change the fact that it was assinine to give a 35+ player a seven year contract. The older the player the more likely that the player will get injured.

Given how concussions are handled these days, as well, the likelihood that a concussion forces a guy in his thirties to retire is much higher than a guy in his twenties.

... and most injuries cannot be foreseen or prevented...
So if he has constant groin issues because he's 38 is exactly the same as getting slammed in the head with a stick by another player and getting PTCS?

I disagree, these two situations are completely different.

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10-15-2013, 02:23 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
So if he has constant groin issues because he's 38 is exactly the same as getting slammed in the head with a stick by another player and getting PTCS?

I disagree, these two situations are completely different.
Where did I equate chronic groin injuries with a freak accident?

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10-15-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
So if he has constant groin issues because he's 38 is exactly the same as getting slammed in the head with a stick by another player and getting PTCS?

I disagree, these two situations are completely different.
Well, the PCS wasn't from the Grabovski stick to the face. I believe he 'recovered' from that and was reinjured in a clean hit by Martin Hanzal in the game against Phoenix

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10-15-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Well, the PCS wasn't from the Grabovski stick to the face. I believe he 'recovered' from that and was reinjured in a clean hit by Martin Hanzal in the game against Phoenix
recovered I believe is the questionable discussion.

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10-15-2013, 02:29 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Where did I equate chronic groin injuries with a freak accident?
While taken out of context, it does sound like it here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Yes, the Pronger injury was a freak accident.

This doesn't change the fact that it was assinine to give a 35+ player a seven year contract. The older the player the more likely that the player will get injured.

Given how concussions are handled these days, as well, the likelihood that a concussion forces a guy in his thirties to retire is much higher than a guy in his twenties.

... and most injuries cannot be foreseen or prevented...

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10-15-2013, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Where did I equate chronic groin injuries with a freak accident?
Your point is that it was stupid to sign a 35 year old to a 7 year deal.

My comment is that, what happened to Pronger can happen to anybody. It wasn't an age thing, so basically its just ****** luck. If this happens to Giroux and he retires, everything is fine, but since Pronger was over 35 and this happens, Flyers are stuck.

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10-15-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Your point is that it was stupid to sign a 35 year old to a 7 year deal.

My comment is that, what happened to Pronger can happen to anybody. It wasn't an age thing, so basically its just ****** luck. If this happens to Giroux and he retires, everything is fine, but since Pronger was over 35 and this happens, Flyers are stuck.
Right. And the freak accident that happened to Pronger doesn't change the fact that teams shouldn't be signing 35+ players to long term deals in the first place.

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10-15-2013, 02:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Right. And the freak accident that happened to Pronger doesn't change the fact that teams shouldn't be signing 35+ players to long term deals in the first place.
It isn't a great idea to sign older players to long term deals, but many hall of famers, even those who play physically, have no real problem lasting into their late 30s/early 40s. When we signed Pronger to the long term deal, he really showed no real signs of slowing down at that point. Sure, he had surgery on his hand and back, but other than that, his other injuries were freak injuries that could happen at any time. Also, I believe his hand issue was from a puck hitting his hand? That could also be grouped into the freak injury issue

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10-15-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
35+ contract rules were implemented to prevent exactly what happened with Pronger.

Who signs a 35+ player to a seven year contract? If you're dumb enough to lock into a contract fo that long with an old man, you deserve the woes you'll get when that player inevitably can't play anymore.

The Flyers were circumventing the cap by extending Pronger for as long as they did and now they're paying for it. Fair game, to me.
The 35+ rules were implemented to stop teams from tacking on years to older players deal in order to reduce the cap hit by adding "fake" years. This is not what happened to Pronger.

It makes no sense to not have some sort of freak injury clause in the 35+ contracts that can be reviewed by the league. If you sign a 35 year old player to a 3 year $4m deal and he takes a puck to the eye in training camp and goes blind in one eye you're stuck with his cap hit if he retires. It makes no sense, and that is not what the rules were put in place for.

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10-15-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
It isn't a great idea to sign older players to long term deals, but many hall of famers, even those who play physically, have no real problem lasting into their late 30s/early 40s. When we signed Pronger to the long term deal, he really showed no real signs of slowing down at that point. Sure, he had surgery on his hand and back, but other than that, his other injuries were freak injuries that could happen at any time. Also, I believe his hand issue was from a puck hitting his hand? That could also be grouped into the freak injury issue
The year he got hurt, he had 12 pts in 13 games. He was having a tremendous start.

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10-15-2013, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
The 35+ rules were implemented to stop teams from tacking on years to older players deal in order to reduce the cap hit by adding "fake" years. This is not what happened to Pronger.

It makes no sense to not have some sort of freak injury clause in the 35+ contracts that can be reviewed by the league. If you sign a 35 year old player to a 3 year $4m deal and he takes a puck to the eye in training camp and goes blind in one eye you're stuck with his cap hit if he retires. It makes no sense, and that is not what the rules were put in place for.
Freak injury or injury due to wear and tear, the point was to restrict long term contracts for older players.

The reason why you can't have a 'freak injury' clause is that teams could argue just about any injury is a 'freak injury' (especially any concusison) to avoid the penalty of keeping that contract on the books.

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10-15-2013, 03:01 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Freak injury or injury due to wear and tear, the point was to restrict long term contracts for older players.

The reason why you can't have a 'freak injury' clause is that teams could argue just about any injury is a 'freak injury' (especially any concusison) to avoid the penalty of keeping that contract on the books.
That's why its not there, doesn't make it any less sad that Pronger and the Flyers just can't move on, considering the circumstances in which he got hurt.

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10-15-2013, 03:05 PM
  #38
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It was posted due to the fact a statement was made about it. I think we all knew it was going to be that way.

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My comment was not directed at you, it was about Holmgren saying it . He is just stating what everyone else knew.

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10-15-2013, 03:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Freak injury or injury due to wear and tear, the point was to restrict long term contracts for older players.

The reason why you can't have a 'freak injury' clause is that teams could argue just about any injury is a 'freak injury' (especially any concusison) to avoid the penalty of keeping that contract on the books.
And what if he didn't sign a long term contract? What if it was the exact situation I described? A 3 year contract to a good 35 year old player isn't crazy, but you have to sit with a cap hit for 3 years, or make this guy fake a comeback for 3 years?

And I know teams would try to get around it, but it would be reviewed by the league. Contracts are reviewed by the league. NJ try to get around the cap and the league came down on them for it.

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10-15-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
35+ contract rules were implemented to prevent exactly what happened with Pronger.

Who signs a 35+ player to a seven year contract? If you're dumb enough to lock into a contract fo that long with an old man, you deserve the woes you'll get when that player inevitably can't play anymore.

The Flyers were circumventing the cap by extending Pronger for as long as they did and now they're paying for it. Fair game, to me.
Exactly. The last 2 years of his contract at $575,000 each are a joke. Not knowing that it was a +35 contract was just stupid on Homer's part and now he's reaping the "reward". And today we see those comments in THN which is the reason why people are questioning if it's cap circumvention. I don't see it as anything but bad luck for Pronger's health and good luck for the Flyers' cap situation because if we were stuck with both Kimmo and Pronger at this stage of the game we're looking at $10 million for 2 ancient, former #1 dmen.

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10-15-2013, 04:51 PM
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I doubt the NHL would punish the flyers for paying the full contract to a guy who suffered a career ending injury, he's injured long term, like rest of life, this way he gets paid.

Though the flyers I think kept Primeau on the books when he basically retired so he would get the remainder of his contract as well.

As much as people think the flyers are some evil organization on the main boards, they are generally good to their players if they go down in the line of duty, either in coaching, broadcasting, or in the case of Emery finding him a good doctor, which is why he probably signed a reasonable deal here. I think they also took care of Tertishny's widow as well. Not saying other organizations don't do that, but from what i've read in JR and Jonsey's books, the flyers are top notch.

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10-15-2013, 05:03 PM
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A lot of them desperately wish the Flyers would lose nearly 5 mil in cap space, so they'll reach for anything that gives them a slight glimmer of hope for that happening.
Sounds about right. People act the Flyers are the only one using the LTIR. Nobody jumps down Boston's throat for doing the exact same thing with Savard.

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10-15-2013, 05:07 PM
  #43
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I doubt the NHL would punish the flyers for paying the full contract to a guy who suffered a career ending injury, he's injured long term, like rest of life, this way he gets paid.

Though the flyers I think kept Primeau on the books when he basically retired so he would get the remainder of his contract as well.

As much as people think the flyers are some evil organization on the main boards, they are generally good to their players if they go down in the line of duty, either in coaching, broadcasting, or in the case of Emery finding him a good doctor, which is why he probably signed a reasonable deal here. I think they also took care of Tertishny's widow as well. Not saying other organizations don't do that, but from what i've read in JR and Jonsey's books, the flyers are top notch.
I believe they really did, along with some players from the time also chipping in (Lindros, Brind'amour, Jones and Dykuis especially I believe).

His kid Alexander was actually playing D for the Philadelphia Flyers squirt AAA team as well a few years back I believe.

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10-16-2013, 01:29 PM
  #44
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Chris Pronger, still at large

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-at-large.html

Some classic Pronger quotes in this article.

Quote:
As he concluded holding court at the draft, Pronger reflected on the fact that it had been 20 years since he went second overall to the Hartford Whalers. After being selected first by Ottawa at the Colisee in Quebec City in 1993, Alexandre Daigle remarked that nobody remembers who went second.
“Nobody remembers No. 2, boys, nobody remembers No. 2 – all-time quote,” Pronger said. “Guess who ate the s— sandwich on that one?”
Miss this guy both on and off the ice.

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Old
10-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #45
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I'm shocked. In other news, the sky is blue.
This^^^
We all knew that Pronger was done, at 38yrs old and no where even close to recovery everyone but Pronger has said he's done in the NHL. Isn't Pronger on staff as a scout right now?

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10-16-2013, 03:54 PM
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Seriously? I was expecting Pronger back this year

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10-16-2013, 04:22 PM
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My comment was not directed at you, it was about Holmgren saying it . He is just stating what everyone else knew.
sorry, couldn't tell thru text on the board.

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