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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Threats to Gretzky's single-season 92 goal record

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Old
10-13-2013, 11:47 PM
  #26
Wizeman*
 
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If things keep going like this and they cut back further on the goalie equipment I think someone could approach 80 goals within 5 years.

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10-13-2013, 11:52 PM
  #27
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Not all EN assist would necessary be a goal for the assist-getter. But I am sure you knew that.
of course. but still would be interesting to know. i mean, if he only had, say, three all year at least then we could pretty reasonably surmise that he probably wasn't going to get enough EN goals to break the record.

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Old
10-14-2013, 12:50 AM
  #28
MadLuke
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
If a player scored 50 goals and 20 of them were empty netters, then okay, we can examine that a little bit more because that is rather inflated.

In a other sence, we will know that 20 of is goal would have been revelant in close scoring situation

Me too, I found that EN are very revelant goal saying a lot about the player, without knowing anything they probably have more value than other goal. Maybe we should look for 5-3 goal too ?

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10-14-2013, 03:14 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Huh?

I don't know about you but if there's a segment I don't like, I choose to do something else.

Ummmm what? I have zero clue what you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
In a other sence, we will know that 20 of is goal would have been revelant in close scoring situation

Me too, I found that EN are very revelant goal saying a lot about the player, without knowing anything they probably have more value than other goal. Maybe we should look for 5-3 goal too ?
To my way of thinking, any talk about not shooting at an empty net is foolish... Treat your opponent like a vampire or a zombie and break out the Glock, a Bowie knife, holy water, wooden stake and silver bullets. Any time you get too feeling to charitable, just think of Patrick Stefan...

"Can you... Believe... What we... Just saw?"


Last edited by MegalodonManiac: 10-14-2013 at 03:19 AM.
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Old
10-14-2013, 10:27 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
In a other sence, we will know that 20 of is goal would have been revelant in close scoring situation

Me too, I found that EN are very revelant goal saying a lot about the player, without knowing anything they probably have more value than other goal. Maybe we should look for 5-3 goal too ?
Two words: Patrick Stefan. That game is over if he scores on what is seemingly a "gimme" on an empty net. Alright it was a gimme, he had a breakaway, but he slips, misses and then Edmonton ties it with a second left. So yeah, it isn't over until the fat lady sings. Even with 10-20 seconds left. Empty net goals have lots of value, I've never understood people's indifference with it.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 10-14-2013 at 11:18 AM. Reason: treading on thin ice
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10-14-2013, 10:46 AM
  #31
tony d
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Yeah, Hull certainly came close though. You have to wonder if he was open to shooting in empty nets back then if he would have broke the record for goals in a season.

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10-14-2013, 11:04 AM
  #32
Dissonance
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This is interesting. Here's an article suggesting that Hull didn't get any empty-net goals in 1990-91 because Brian Sutter never put him out at the end of games.

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Many believe that Hull could have set the single-season scoring record had he scored any empty-net goals, or killed penalties, which might have led to shorthanded opportunities. He had none of those. Of Hull's 86 goals, 57 were even-strength and 29 were on the power play. Gretzky, meanwhile, had six shorties and 11 of his 92 goals were empty-netters.

"Hullie always says, 'Gretz, you know how many goals I would've had if I would've been out there at the end of games?'" Chase said. "Gretz laughs and says, 'Don't blame me, I didn't coach you.'"

Former coach Brian Sutter didn't use Hull on the penalty kill or late in games.

"Coming down to 25 games left in the season, you could see there was a chance for something special, possibly breaking Wayne's record, and I never got put on the ice to get any empty net," Hull said. "I got so frustrated and so mad that I finally just said, '(Screw) this, I'm not going to score an empty-net goal if he starts putting me out there.'

"I ended up being six goals short of one of the greatest records ever. Maybe I could have gotten a few empty-netters and a couple of shorties, and I could have gotten 93 (goals)."

Still, Gretzky acknowledged this week, "Eight-six goals, no empty-netters, very special."
That would explain why I can find only one recorded instance of Hull passing up an empty-net goal that season (late in the year)—he was rarely put in that situation in the first place.


Last edited by Dissonance: 10-14-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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10-14-2013, 11:26 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
This is interesting. Here's an article suggesting that Hull didn't get any empty-net goals in 1990-91 because Brian Sutter never put him out at the end of games.



That would explain why I can find only one recorded instance of Hull passing up an empty-net goal that season (late in the year)—he was rarely put in that situation in the first place.
Yeah well, had he been any good at PK and to preserve leads he perhaps would have had the record. But he was'nt. Funny that a players defense plays such a big role for an offensive record.

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10-15-2013, 03:51 PM
  #34
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My apologies if this has already been answered...

What is the NHL record for goals (and who holds it?), excluding empty netters?

Is that Hull's 86?

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10-15-2013, 04:23 PM
  #35
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I'm not a big fan of "what ifs". Hull scored 86 goals that year. Period. Regardless of whether or not he shot into an empty net. Or wanted to. It is like saying Gretzky could have had 150 goals (and he may have) had he just focused on goal scoring and not what he was really better at, which was playmaking.

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10-15-2013, 08:37 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
Hull ended up with 11 empty net goals by the end of his career. His initial reluctance to was probably sincere, but eventually there were situations where it was necessary. For example, in the game where he got his first one http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin....cgi?H19930564 it's a one-goal lead with 26 seconds left, so that would seal the game.

On the other hand, with the game in '91 where he passed to a teammate http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin....cgi?H19900825 it was a two-goal lead with 6 seconds left, so the game was already sealed. I don't think it was selfish for him to do that. If anything, it was generous for him to give the goal to a teammate who didn't get many.
How many empty net goals did Wayne score and is there a list of it anywhere?

it's a bit of a trivial thing as things were quite different in the 80's but memory is that Edmonton scored a whole ton of empty net goals, perhaps more than the norm? that I'm not sure of.

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