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Alain Vigneault puts players on notice

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Old
10-15-2013, 07:56 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
im putting everyone on notice. we stink because we have are void of offensive talent.

hello mr dolan and sather ???

those are the culprits. really.

oh and our recent drafting has been rather sketchy too.
This team has been void of offensive talent since jagr and his boys left.

They were pretty good at preventing goals the past few years - now we stink at that too.

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Old
10-15-2013, 07:56 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Isn't it amazing that all these years under Sather and we still have a dearth of offensive talent.
It's really a marvel. The structure of the team has not significantly changed since the Renney years, and nor have the results noticably improved. But ol' Slats is still chillin' up in Banff, making it rain at the club and puffing on a cigar and whatnot.

People talking about AV getting the axe are probably insane. There's no way he gets fired less than ten games into his tenure with the club. Everyone can stop fantasizing about Lavy for now.

This team is mediocre on a good day. Sather has built them that way. Until he's gone, get used to it. Not Renney nor Torts nor AV can overcome the deck Sather has stacked against them.


Last edited by Wamsutta: 10-15-2013 at 07:57 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
10-15-2013, 09:16 PM
  #53
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Wow this season start is such a epic mess.. Total team collapse, Nash and Hagelin out, Dorsett collecting penalties like easter eggs.. and doesnt even get a warning (that we know of), Asham waived, Hank sucking, because defs are sucking..

#Imisstorts

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10-15-2013, 09:24 PM
  #54
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5 games into the season and people are already ******** on the coach. This is hilarious

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10-15-2013, 09:26 PM
  #55
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Haha, Vigneault feeling the heat. This reeks of desperation on his part. These players quit on Torts after he led them to a tremendous amount of success because he was too hard on them. Does AV really think they're going to respond well by being called out by a guy who has only been here five minutes and in that time led the team to some of the worst loses these guys have ever experienced as pros?

And this comes right on the heels of waiving locker room favorite Marty Biron after he was given only one start, and that one start coming when the team was still in disarray and against one of the best teams in the NHL.

It's funny that people on these boards are telling the fans not to panic, because AV has full on hit the panic button himself.

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:30 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Laviolette makes perfect sense. It would be another easy, lazy and not terribly unexpected move.
I believe there is a reason for coaches to be fired,no? Why don't any teams try something new and fresh, with a good track record in The AHL or CHL i.e? I don't get that mentality.
"Our coach is strugeling big time,lets hire another fired coach".

There must be a ton of good ones in The CHL. They could hardly do anything worse than AV's start?

That said, I'm all for giving AV a month or two more and see if he can get the pieces together.

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10-15-2013, 09:33 PM
  #57
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These players aren't producing because they're not very good offensive players. They're supposed to be depth players to add a little bit of scoring to the bottom lines but with the injuries to Hagelin and Nash they're playing more minutes than usual. Pyatt shouldn't even be on the team. I think the only reason he's on this team is because he's 6'4, 230. He brings nothing other than size, and he doesn't even use it in an intimidating/energizing/game changing way. Zucc doesn't shoot enough.

The Rangers need to get healthy and have their full team on the ice to get some consistency going. Eventually playing at home will help too, or at least in the Eastern time zone. I'd also prefer to leave players like Miller in the AHL for a bit longer. I don't think it's a good environment right now to be bringing young player into. Let the established vets get their act together and stabilize the team.
110% agreed.

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:34 PM
  #58
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"Produce or we'll get someone in here that also can't"
....

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:36 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Haha, Vigneault feeling the heat. This reeks of desperation on his part. These players quit on Torts after he led them to a tremendous amount of success because he was too hard on them. Does AV really think they're going to respond well by being called out by a guy who has only been here five minutes and in that time led the team to some of the worst loses these guys have ever experienced as pros?

And this comes right on the heels of waiving locker room favorite Marty Biron after he was given only one start, and that one start coming when the team was still in disarray and against one of the best teams in the NHL.

It's funny that people on these boards are telling the fans not to panic, because AV has full on hit the panic button himself.
Interesting spin. I think it's probably more likely a sense of the players thinking "we were under a hardass before. We can take it easier cuz he's gone." AV will have none of that. And by the way, the Rangers never quit on Tortorella. This is becoming one of the most annoying myths on these boards.

AV hasn't hit the panic button. The lines are relatively stable. The approach to the game hasn't changed. Where's the panic?

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10-15-2013, 09:49 PM
  #60
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Interesting spin. I think it's probably more likely a sense of the players thinking "we were under a hardass before. We can take it easier cuz he's gone." AV will have none of that. And by the way, the Rangers never quit on Tortorella. This is becoming one of the most annoying myths on these boards.

AV hasn't hit the panic button. The lines are relatively stable. The approach to the game hasn't changed. Where's the panic?
The players went behind Torts' back to the GM *****ing about him and asking for him to be fired. How is that not quitting on him?

Waiving Biron after 1 start is a panic move. That one game convinced you he's not who you thought he was going into the year? Give me a break. And is that really the biggest concern with the team right now? Yeah this really was what needed to be done right now. This team would be awesome if Biron and Asham didn't keep ****ing it up. And read what the players had to say about Biron being wavied including Hank, they were not happy about it.

Calling out guys who are being put in positions they clearly never belonged in is a panic move. "hey you guys who any objective person would have guessed would be totally overmatched by the position I put you in, **** you start playing as good as you've never been before but I foolishly hoped you would be for no rational reason!"

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:55 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
The players went behind Torts' back to the GM *****ing about him and asking for him to be fired. How is that not quitting on him?

Waiving Biron after 1 start is a panic move. That one game convinced you he's not who you thought he was going into the year? Give me a break. And is that really the biggest concern with the team right now? Yeah this really was what needed to be done right now. This team would be awesome if Biron and Asham didn't keep ****ing it up. And read what the players had to say about Biron being wavied including Hank, they were not happy about it.

Calling out guys who are being put in positions they clearly never belonged in is a panic move. "hey you guys who any objective person would have guessed would be totally overmatched by the position I put you in, **** you start playing as good as you've never been before but I foolishly hoped you would be for no rational reason!"
Quitting on him would be when you stop playing for him when the actual games are on. What you're talking about is turning on him during breakup. It's a pretty significant distinction.

Biron looked awful in the scrimmages. He looked awful in the pre-season games. He looked awful in 60 minutes of play during the regular season. Personally, I think he'd be fine based on watching him every game he's played in over the last few years. I can understand how a guy without that experience might not feel the same. It's not panic. Biron played himself off the team.

And the whole idea that you can't be identifying the guys who aren't part of the solution, no matter what role they play on the team, while continuing to evaluating the other players is a house of cards. I mean, really...

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:58 PM
  #62
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Looks like Slats hired the wrong coach yet again. Vigneault's system just won't work without players like the Sedins and Kesler, as well as mobile defensemen who actually have hockey IQ and PMD skills. Trying to make it work with marginal NHL players like Pyatt, Pouliot, Boyle, MZA, etc in the lineup will lead to disaster. Too bad AV couldn't be bothered to watch tape of the players before camp or he might have realized this.

Practically every move AV has made since his hiring has been suspect, starting off with his awful choices of assistants, and he's already lost the handle on this team and is lashing out.

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Old
10-15-2013, 10:11 PM
  #63
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hey av, bring up some kids. let them play.

sit down the aging, slow, lumbering vets whose best days are behind them. if they cant fill a role bottom 6, cut them loose. the answer isnt playing them more in roles they cannot play.

playing guys out of position due to injuries isnt gonna help. skill guys have to play top 6 and bottom 6 types need to play there. they cannot be moved up to play more minutes. they will fail.

in this age of salary cap restrictions, you gotta develop a steady stream of kids who can fill in and then move up. they cant do either if they dont get a real chance to play, develop and contribute.

we cannot afford for guys like kreider and miller to labor in the ahl. both of those guys need to be playing in ny every night. period.

they CANT be any worse than what weve showcased so far.

these young guys all have talent. the moment nash is healthy and we get back hags, add miller and kreider to the top 9 and let them play.

move delzaster for a scorer.

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Old
10-15-2013, 10:13 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
Looks like Slats hired the wrong coach yet again. Vigneault's system just won't work without players like the Sedins and Kesler, as well as mobile defensemen who actually have hockey IQ and PMD skills. Trying to make it work with marginal NHL players like Pyatt, Pouliot, Boyle, MZA, etc in the lineup will lead to disaster. Too bad AV couldn't be bothered to watch tape of the players before camp or he might have realized this.

Practically every move AV has made since his hiring has been suspect, starting off with his awful choices of assistants, and he's already lost the handle on this team and is lashing out.
Man this guy just can't find the right coach.

Woe is Glen.

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10-15-2013, 10:18 PM
  #65
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The dismal start has nothing to do with AV. It has everything to do with that stupid Gaborik trade (yes, yes, I know, stupid salary cap). The whole point of having Gaborik and Nash was to have two scoring lines. Now with Nash you have maybe one line... with Nash out you got nuffin.

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Old
10-15-2013, 10:31 PM
  #66
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This is turning into one of the most dumb threads ever.

If anyone thinks that AV is going to be fired, they are out of their minds. This is not a brand new coach like Trottier who was in over his head. This is a very successful, highly respected coach. We could lose 15 games in a row and he would not be fired. Nor should he.

The idea that someone of his stature is panicing is so ridiculous that it is hard to believe anyone would credit it.

Is he frustrated, angry, and as puzzled as the rest of us? Of course. But while all we can do is vent and complain, filling all of these threads with ideas about who should be playing, called up, released, traded, exiled to Siberia, or simply taken out and shot, it is only AV who can do something about it.

Like any coach he is going to put his stamp on this team. That means some guys who have been here might not be here for long. That might mean that players we like might not be AV guys.

We also are going to learn firsthand the kind of coach he is and how he handles the locker room and the behind scenes stuff. Renney had his way. Torts had his way. AV certainly has his way.

This team is underachieving. Whether it is systen, complacency, lack of confidence, lack of effort, lack of talent or the lack of what we need to succeed in todays NHL......only time will tell.

One thing it is not: it is not AVs fault. Lets see how he handles this mess and molds the team in his image.

Fire him? Give me a break. Is he panicing? That is an analysis beyond belief.

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10-15-2013, 10:32 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I wonder if Vigneault himself was put on notice.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's the case. Melrose got canned in less than 10 games after signing a long term deal that off season.

The thing about our loses is that for the most part they are terrible losses. Have we seen some bright spots here & there? Yes, we have. But the overall picture is pretty damn bad. If our loses were by one or 2 goals it would still be bad, just not as bad. What we have seen is a team that has just had the wheels fall off the wagen.

Quite frankly, this is the start I would have expected if Torts was still here & the team had tuned him out 100%, not under a new coach, new staff, new voies & new ideas.

If we continue losing going into the home opener & than God forbid get blown out at home during the new MSG unveil heads will roll. It would be a national embrassment for the Dolans. AV will have to go. No head coach can survive a 10 game skid like we are seeing now. The fact that it's happening so early should be more telling of what we will see long term.

I think if Av does go it won't be a Sather call It will be a Dolan call & Sather may be gone to, much to the rejoicing of this board.

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Old
10-15-2013, 10:34 PM
  #68
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Lundqvist better start scoring.
I recall an after game presser where he insisted that he can't score. I think he may be selling himself short, he is the King after all.

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Old
10-15-2013, 10:49 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
This is turning into one of the most dumb threads ever.

If anyone thinks that AV is going to be fired, they are out of their minds. This is not a brand new coach like Trottier who was in over his head. This is a very successful, highly respected coach. We could lose 15 games in a row and he would not be fired. Nor should he.

The idea that someone of his stature is panicing is so ridiculous that it is hard to believe anyone would credit it.

Is he frustrated, angry, and as puzzled as the rest of us? Of course. But while all we can do is vent and complain, filling all of these threads with ideas about who should be playing, called up, released, traded, exiled to Siberia, or simply taken out and shot, it is only AV who can do something about it.

Like any coach he is going to put his stamp on this team. That means some guys who have been here might not be here for long. That might mean that players we like might not be AV guys.

We also are going to learn firsthand the kind of coach he is and how he handles the locker room and the behind scenes stuff. Renney had his way. Torts had his way. AV certainly has his way.

This team is underachieving. Whether it is systen, complacency, lack of confidence, lack of effort, lack of talent or the lack of what we need to succeed in todays NHL......only time will tell.

One thing it is not: it is not AVs fault. Lets see how he handles this mess and molds the team in his image.

Fire him? Give me a break. Is he panicing? That is an analysis beyond belief.
Lots of negative adjectives in this post trying to mask the complete lack of analysis and countervailing argument.

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Old
10-16-2013, 01:23 AM
  #70
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I very much agree that Zuccarello and the others need to produce more points. But when the team is 1-4 with a GD of 9-25, IMO it is the wrong focus by the coach to publicly put players on notice.

I have a feeling that Zucc is playing for his Rangers career the next 3-4 games.....

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10-16-2013, 01:34 AM
  #71
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Waiving an agitator and a back up goalie is not gonna fix much, but it is some kind of signal maybe. Hope that's not the entire plan to turn this around. Zuke must get on the board soon, but constantly pairing him with the other non producers / noticed players is not gonna help him much. He needs to shoot. Still tied for second of the players that has played all the games, so AV should maybe keep him for his defensive qualities? At least there is a better expectation of some production down the road. And then there's the shoot-outs when we get close to that luxury.
If Hank is Hank again, giving them a break defensively, this might be the big turnaround game. They had rest too.
5 - 0 for Rangers.

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10-16-2013, 02:57 AM
  #72
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I believe there is a reason for coaches to be fired,no? Why don't any teams try something new and fresh, with a good track record in The AHL or CHL i.e? I don't get that mentality.
"Our coach is strugeling big time,lets hire another fired coach".

There must be a ton of good ones in The CHL. They could hardly do anything worse than AV's start?

That said, I'm all for giving AV a month or two more and see if he can get the pieces together.
There are a million reasons a coach might get fired. That dosn't mean they can't get their **** together in a new enviorment. Just look at pro sports in general. I don't have the numbers, but it's not like the average length of enployment for coach is ten years or something like that.

I don't know if AV should be fired so soon, but I never felt really good about him as a Ranger coach. To me he feels kind of indecisive. A coach should have some fire in him, and I don't get that feel from AV.

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Old
10-16-2013, 04:07 AM
  #73
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Why was the camp so short btw? The circumstances pre season was very far from optimal for AV. Barring the injuries, Stepans hesitation, and having to get rid of half the team in no time but giving them playing time: having two very uncomfortable goalies with too short pads does not help when you should transform a defensively minded (traumatized) squad into the offensive fireworks we expect.
Something like bringing a recovered fresh ex-Scientolog alcoholic on antabus to the Heffner mantion, and expecting him to be back, content, before midnight. Always gets ugly the first few times. Always. But slowly, very slowly, it will be beautiful.

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10-16-2013, 04:16 AM
  #74
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The big issue with NYR losing by large margins is it prevents them from getting to OT to pick up some loser points. People often scoff at the concept, but it's what allows teams to stay in the chase. It's imperative to get something out of games during a long season when a team is going through a terrible stretch.

They simply must tighten up defensively. Be in position to at least get a point during 3rd periods. When/if NYR go on a hot streak later, the teams ahead of them will be picking up loser points here and there. They absolutely have to start doing the same immediately.

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Old
10-16-2013, 05:04 AM
  #75
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The big issue with NYR losing by large margins is it prevents them from getting to OT to pick up some loser points. People often scoff at the concept, but it's what allows teams to stay in the chase. It's imperative to get something out of games during a long season when a team is going through a terrible stretch.

They simply must tighten up defensively. Be in position to at least get a point during 3rd periods. When/if NYR go on a hot streak later, the teams ahead of them will be picking up loser points here and there. They absolutely have to start doing the same immediately.
I agree but we're in the midst of the hardest part of our schedule by far. Once we're a little more comfortable with the new system and playing at home, points will be far easier to come by. It would have been awesome to do more in this stretch but this will hardly cripple us.

If we still aren't winning come New Years then you go out and try to make something happen via trade or consider rebuilding completely.

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