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Alain Vigneault puts players on notice

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Old
10-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #101
Raspewtin
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I mean at the VERY least Zuccarello has been playing well. Just has no points to show for it. And I agree, that isn't good enough for a team that needs offense.

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Old
10-16-2013, 10:22 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I think he could be. I think he would work well with a couple of guys who are less skilled on the 3rd line who like to do the dirty work. He thrives with any sort of space which is easier to come by with guys who like to bang bodies.
Agree. Zucc is creating chances and not finishing his own leading to not getting on the score sheet.

Ideally, he is a 3rd liner who gets PP time. Pouliot is also best slotted for 3rd line duty. Our problem is we don't have 6 top 6 forwards and guys are being asked to play above their heads.

when healthy, we could go with the following in our top 6

Step
Nash
Richards
Brass
Cally
Hagelin
(Maybe Kreider if he continues to excel in Hartford)

Then Zucc and Pouliot can get 3rd line duty and Boyle, Moore, Dorsett and Pyatt can work in on the 4th line. I guess Miller would be the third line center. If we master the new system, that roster should be very competitive and maybe really good. Right now it's hard to think positively but we have good pieces when slotted properly.

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10-16-2013, 10:40 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Agree. Zucc is creating chances and not finishing his own leading to not getting on the score sheet.

Ideally, he is a 3rd liner who gets PP time. Pouliot is also best slotted for 3rd line duty. Our problem is we don't have 6 top 6 forwards and guys are being asked to play above their heads.

when healthy, we could go with the following in our top 6

Step
Nash
Richards
Brass
Cally
Hagelin
(Maybe Kreider if he continues to excel in Hartford)

Then Zucc and Pouliot can get 3rd line duty and Boyle, Moore, Dorsett and Pyatt can work in on the 4th line. I guess Miller would be the third line center. If we master the new system, that roster should be very competitive and maybe really good. Right now it's hard to think positively but we have good pieces when slotted properly.
Pouloit Brassard Zucc - horrible line up. No one finishes.

Pyatt Boyle Fast - horrible line up. Fast is holding the puck for 5 seconds behind the net while Boyle and Pyatt are laboring to get out of the neutral zone.

He's putting players in a position to fail and then putting them on notice.

Pouloit should be a spare. Healthy scratch.

Zucc needs to be put on a line with a finisher. Someone who can snipe.

Pyatt should be waived.

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10-16-2013, 10:47 AM
  #104
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Firing AV now is beyond stupid. Firing Sather now doesn't achieve much. Who do you replace him with? And I don't give a **** what he's done or hasn't done, what I care about is the current roster, cap situation and prospect outlook. And guess what? They all look decent.

The roster has to produce and if they don't the coach has to motivate them or demote them and that's exactly what AV is doing.

Let's calm down, stop whining like fans of another metropolitan area team, and let the coaching staff get the system implemented. It's hard to win these days and unless you're lucky enough to have 2-4 superstars, you have to make do with what you've got.

Let me put it this way: would you change rosters, farm teams and prospects with the Devils? With the Flyers? With Buffalo? Florida? Washington? If not, then calm down and let's get a few more games in before panic sets in.

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Old
10-16-2013, 10:53 AM
  #105
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Firing AV now is beyond stupid. Firing Sather now doesn't achieve much. Who do you replace him with? And I don't give a **** what he's done or hasn't done, what I care about is the current roster, cap situation and prospect outlook. And guess what? They all look decent.

The roster has to produce and if they don't the coach has to motivate them or demote them and that's exactly what AV is doing.

Let's calm down, stop whining like fans of another metropolitan area team, and let the coaching staff get the system implemented. It's hard to win these days and unless you're lucky enough to have 2-4 superstars, you have to make do with what you've got.

Let me put it this way: would you change rosters, farm teams and prospects with the Devils? With the Flyers? With Buffalo? Florida? Washington? If not, then calm down and let's get a few more games in before panic sets in.
You've made it quite clear all you care about is the here and now. In fact, only people that think like that would make such silly statements.

I should be thrilled, after 13 years, that we have a roster thats better than the Florida Panthers? Thats the measure for success? Absurd.

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10-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #106
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Katie Strang just answered one of my questions, so I guess you can say things are getting pretty serious.



Quote:
Hi Katie! Thanks for the chat.Despite not putting up any numbers on the stat sheet, watching the games I see Zuccarello doing more of the 'little things' (no pun intended) right than guys like Pouliot, and Pyatt. With AV calling out his players and putting Miller in a position to possibly overtake a top-9 spot from one of these players - who do you think is most at risk of losing their spot on the Rangers between Zuccarello, Pouliot, and Pyatt?

Katie Strang (12:03 PM)

It's the top-six forwards -- particularly Pouliot, Brassard, Zuccarello -- that really need to be on notice with Miller's recall. The 20-year-old prospect went on a tear after being sent down to Hartford and he's not timid. Alain Vigneault sent a clear message yesterday when he said that Miller could quickly push one of his teammates out of a top-six spot if his play warrants it. That goes for the PP, too. He'll start on second unit but have an opportunity to move up if he plays well. The way things are going, no one's spot is safe. The only player right now that has been pretty consistent is Brad Richards

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10-16-2013, 11:15 AM
  #107
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Katie Strang just answered one of my questions, so I guess you can say things are getting pretty serious.

But she didn't even answer the question!

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10-16-2013, 11:27 AM
  #108
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And I don't give a **** what he's done or hasn't done.
That's clear.

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10-16-2013, 11:29 AM
  #109
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Puoliot - Brassard - Zuccarello haven't been able to consistently produce at the NHL level over the course of their careers. I don't know why anyone expects them to start doing it now.

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10-16-2013, 11:47 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Tank View Post
Firing AV now is beyond stupid. Firing Sather now doesn't achieve much. Who do you replace him with? And I don't give a **** what he's done or hasn't done, what I care about is the current roster, cap situation and prospect outlook. And guess what? They all look decent.

The roster has to produce and if they don't the coach has to motivate them or demote them and that's exactly what AV is doing.

Let's calm down, stop whining like fans of another metropolitan area team, and let the coaching staff get the system implemented. It's hard to win these days and unless you're lucky enough to have 2-4 superstars, you have to make do with what you've got.

Let me put it this way: would you change rosters, farm teams and prospects with the Devils? With the Flyers? With Buffalo? Florida? Washington? If not, then calm down and let's get a few more games in before panic sets in.
Oh boy they look decent! I'm sorry but in the English language decent is synonymous with acceptable, average, mediocre. You know, all the things the Rangers have been for years.

The fact that you write off management's history isn't helping your case.

Firing Sather now would do something, it would fire Sather and leave open the potential for someone who understands the game as it has currently evolved.

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10-16-2013, 11:49 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Puoliot - Brassard - Zuccarello haven't been able to consistently produce at the NHL level over the course of their careers. I don't know why anyone expects them to start doing it now.
Because they should chemistry in a few shifts during the preseason.

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10-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #112
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I'm going to break it to you but you're not going to get magically better in this version of the league. {Mod} I don't just care about the here and now - the exact ****ing opposite. This is the best shape the organization has been in in decades. AND it may not be good enough to win the Cup this year but it is way too early to make that call.

I don't want to blow up what's been achieved by firing AV or Sather, at least not until we've got 20 games in. I wish I could tell you it's going to be allright {Mod}..... And it may not be all allright this year. Reality.


Last edited by Killion: 10-16-2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason: easy there, not really req'd. Keep it PG.
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Old
10-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #113
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What I find most incredible is the amount of fans that aren't willing to just say "Wow, they've looked like **** through the first 5 games, I hope they get better." Its always one excuse after another - but only when those excuses are convenient.

Players getting used to the new system is my favorite. Its very similar to how the Avs have struggled getting acclimated to Roy's system......oh wait.....

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10-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Oh boy they look decent! I'm sorry but in the English language decent is synonymous with acceptable, average, mediocre. You know, all the things the Rangers have been for years.

The fact that you write off management's history isn't helping your case.

Firing Sather now would do something, it would fire Sather and leave open the potential for someone who understands the game as it has currently evolved.
Come on, it's only been thirteen years. Show some patience.

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Old
10-16-2013, 11:52 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What I find most incredible is the amount of fans that aren't willing to just say "Wow, they've looked like **** through the first 5 games, I hope they get better." Its always one excuse after another - but only when those excuses are convenient.

Players getting used to the new system is my favorite. Its very similar to how the Avs have struggled getting acclimated to Roy's system......oh wait.....
Yeah, they've looked like ****.

But I won't be putting that on AV. I think they have some good building blocks here in place already but this team needs a rather serious overhaul of speed, size, tenacity and overall skill.

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10-16-2013, 11:53 AM
  #116
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I'm going to break it to you but you're not going to get magically better in this version of the league. I don't just care about the here and now - the exact ****ing opposite. This is the best shape the organization has been in in decades. AND it may not be good enough to win the Cup this year but it is way too early to make that call.

I don't want to blow up what's been achieved by firing AV or Sather, at least not until we've got 20 games in. I wish I could tell you it's going to be allright {Mod}...And it may not be all allright this year. Reality.
The organization was at its best in decades about 18 months ago. Sather went and ****ed it up.

This team is at a crossroads. Its got a new coach, its confused, 75% of the team are free agents this offseason. If Glen Sather is allowed to try to fix his latest mess, we are all in trouble as fans.


Last edited by Killion: 10-16-2013 at 11:56 AM. Reason: deleted pssgs from op...
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Old
10-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #117
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Yeah, they've looked like ****.

But I won't be putting that on AV. I think they have some good building blocks here in place already but this team needs a rather serious overhaul of speed, size, tenacity and overall skill.
Im not putting it on AV either, or Tortorella, or Renney. Ron Lowe gets his share of blame because in addition to having the annual ****ed up roster, he ran a disfunctional ship.

Ive just come to a realization that certain factions of the fanbase will continue to expect coaches to make players better than they actually are. When that fails, replace those bums with minor leaguers that aren't ready. Always just one move from the solution.

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Old
10-16-2013, 11:57 AM
  #118
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call up miller, kreider and kristo already.

with nasher down for a while, this is a good time to lose games with kids rather than lose games with slugs.

and who knows, we may find something in all this youth... like energy, speed, excitement and god forbid... skill !!

and for gods sake, go get us a true offensive, skating, pmd !!

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10-16-2013, 12:05 PM
  #119
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Going by the posts, it looks like people are finally starting to accept the fact that we don't have much offensive talent. Hopefully those same people have realized that the **** they were spewing about Torts holding this team back was laughable. He got the most out of this team and it's a shame we are stuck watching garbage now.

At least with Torts you KNEW we were going to be a solid, hard working team that was going to make the playoffs. Now even that is a wonder.

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10-16-2013, 12:15 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Going by the posts, it looks like people are finally starting to accept the fact that we don't have much offensive talent. Hopefully those same people have realized that the **** they were spewing about Torts holding this team back was laughable. He got the most out of this team and it's a shame we are stuck watching garbage now.

At least with Torts you KNEW we were going to be a solid, hard working team that was going to make the playoffs. Now even that is a wonder.
torts had more issues than just his overall lack of offensive talent. his time had come.

gabi hated him. hank was not a fan. thats pretty clear.

while torts did the best he could with his players and his d first system, he was his own worst enemy. stubborn, snarky, accusatory and emotional. his results just werent good enough.

that ship has pretty much sailed.

we need to get more skilled. no "torts system" to fall back on nor do we want to anymore. the warts are visible now.

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10-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #121
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I think the team is almost beyond saving this year. Too much turn over last couple years has led to a bunch of individuals skating around almost aimlessly. Yeah, maybe the new coach can get them to play better. But they are not contenders, no matter what.

There will be much more turnover after this season. We have maybe five or six starters that won't be rangers next year. Too many UFA's and useless RFA's.

I'm ready for a serious infusion of youth from Hartford. Their only goal should be to play hard, and learn, and stick to, the new system. Play the kids, learn together, and let's go from there.

The current roster wreaks of a stopgap roster ..... But the problem is I'm not sure what is on the other side of the gap.

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10-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Going by the posts, it looks like people are finally starting to accept the fact that we don't have much offensive talent. Hopefully those same people have realized that the **** they were spewing about Torts holding this team back was laughable. He got the most out of this team and it's a shame we are stuck watching garbage now.

At least with Torts you KNEW we were going to be a solid, hard working team that was going to make the playoffs. Now even that is a wonder.
Put the quote in another thread but maybe this is better place to put it:

Quote:
“I’m excited to see what their new style is like,” Karl Alzner said. “It was always really frustrating playing against them because as D you could never get a puck through. They’re super tough on the forecheck, it was a hard game for us. I’m curious to see what they’re going to be like and how they’re going to play their guys differently. You know in the back of their head they still have a little bit of Tortorella barking at them, so I’m sure we’ll still see a few of the same things.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...familiar-with/

Find it hard to believe Alzner is only Capital or player around the league who feels this way.

Again, think Vigneault is good coach and he can have success here but it's going to take a lot of time and some roster moves before that can happen. Won't be the smooth and seamless transition to more goals and more success that people thought firing Torts would bring. Yet, the team being taken in another direction under Sather.

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Old
10-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #123
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I think the team is almost beyond saving this year.
It's been five games. We're barely two weeks in. Thirteen days. The season is 199 days long.

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Old
10-16-2013, 12:53 PM
  #124
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The "production" of certain players is so irrelevant at this point. Some of the best players on the team have looked like crap. Singling a few guys out isn't fair at all.

The whole team needs to play better and that starts with the "system". The defenseman haven't figured it out and the forwards are turning the puck over too much.

But hey, let's single out the MZA and Pyatt when Hank and McDonagh look like ****. Makes a ton of sense.

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10-16-2013, 12:56 PM
  #125
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I think our guys are both overthinking things and second guessing themselves..

Zuke's line better produce 3-4 points the next 2 games or it's ahl time instead of msg fun..

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