HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Hockey Fights
Hockey Fights Discuss and rate hockey fights and fighters of today and from the past. Videos welcome!

Mayo Clinic calls for end of fighting in the name of safety

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-14-2013, 10:07 AM
  #1
cam042686
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 340
vCash: 500
Mayo Clinic calls for end of fighting in the name of safety

The evidence is clear. Fighting causes brain damage. That being said can anyone in this day and age still justify this?

Craig Wallace

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...key_safer.html

cam042686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 10:08 AM
  #2
Ozz
Registered User
 
Ozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hockeytown
Country: United States
Posts: 6,400
vCash: 500
What's their stance on MMA and boxing?

Ozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 10:51 AM
  #3
cam042686
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
What's their stance on MMA and boxing?
I would assume the same. They do mention boxing in the article.

I guess the difference is MMA and Boxing are all about violence. That is the point of the sport. The majority of the hockey world punishes fighting with expulsions and suspensions. We know hockey can be played at the most elite level without fighting.

Craig Wallace

cam042686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 11:49 AM
  #4
blamebettman*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,948
vCash: 500
What about the entire business of the NFL and CFL? Shut those down too?

There have been more concussions in the NHL due to clean and dirty hits...hockey should become non contact now?

So basically we need to ban the entire sport of football. College, NFL, CFL, all high school and pop warner, all contact in north american hockey, and completely shut down MMA and Boxing

blamebettman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 12:04 PM
  #5
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,625
vCash: 500
What's their stance on bodychecking? Legal and illegal, it's responsible for 69% of concussions compared to fighting's 8% (the remaining 23% or so is a result of accidents and the puck hitting people).

Nobody seems to address this question: why are these concern-troll groups worried about something that causes 8% of concussions instead of something that causes 69% of them? It's a classic case of obsessing about a fly instead of the rampaging elephant right next to it.

My guess is these people just don't like the optics or symbolism of fighting. Symbolism is a terrible reason to ban something.


Last edited by billybudd: 10-15-2013 at 01:40 PM. Reason: fixed percentages
billybudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 01:44 PM
  #6
Gene Parmesan
Ball-So-Hard-U
 
Gene Parmesan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 29,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
I would assume the same. They do mention boxing in the article.

I guess the difference is MMA and Boxing are all about violence. That is the point of the sport. The majority of the hockey world punishes fighting with expulsions and suspensions. We know hockey can be played at the most elite level without fighting.

Craig Wallace
Boxing and MMA are strategic chess matches not just "violence". The point is to best your opponent. Body checking causes more concussions than a sloppy bare knuckled haymaker to your helmet. The anti-fighting crowd makes it seem that every game is a fight filled mess. Which is hardly the case.

Gene Parmesan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 03:48 PM
  #7
Drop The Mits
Toronto Blue Dingers
 
Drop The Mits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Boxing and MMA are strategic chess matches not just "violence". The point is to best your opponent. Body checking causes more concussions than a sloppy bare knuckled haymaker to your helmet. The anti-fighting crowd makes it seem that every game is a fight filled mess. Which is hardly the case.
Their argument is "but hitting is an essential part of hockey whereas fighting is not". They fail to see that there is hockey leagues around the world where hitting is not allowed. It is still hockey isn't it?

Drop The Mits is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 04:28 PM
  #8
Bizz06
Registered Goon
 
Bizz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose
Posts: 2,477
vCash: 50

Bizz06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2013, 04:55 PM
  #9
Taro Tsujimoto
2 Sam(my)s, 1 avatar
 
Taro Tsujimoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clarence Center, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,670
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Taro Tsujimoto
Was it this guy who made the recommendation?:


Taro Tsujimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 09:11 AM
  #10
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
What's their stance on bodychecking? Legal and illegal, it's responsible for ~80% of concussions compared to fighting's ~5% (the remaining ~15% or so is a result of accidents and the puck hitting people).

Nobody seems to address this question: why are these concern-troll groups worried about something that causes 5% of concussions instead of something that causes 80% of them? It's a classic case of obsessing about a fly instead of the rampaging elephant right next to it.

My guess is these people just don't like the optics or symbolism of fighting. Symbolism is a terrible reason to ban something.
Pretty much. But that's how it goes, and you can bet a newspaper like the Toronto Star is the first one to jump on the "anti-fighting" bandwagon. Bottom line is this, fighting causes far less injuries, and head injuries, than other actions in hockey. But our society is so paranoid about the boogeyman being around every corner that we want to not only wrap our kids in bubble, but everyone else in bubble. Strange world we live in.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 09:22 AM
  #11
mygameworn
Registered User
 
mygameworn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 1,907
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to mygameworn
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
What's their stance on bodychecking? Legal and illegal, it's responsible for ~80% of concussions compared to fighting's ~5% (the remaining ~15% or so is a result of accidents and the puck hitting people).

Nobody seems to address this question: why are these concern-troll groups worried about something that causes 5% of concussions instead of something that causes 80% of them? It's a classic case of obsessing about a fly instead of the rampaging elephant right next to it.

My guess is these people just don't like the optics or symbolism of fighting. Symbolism is a terrible reason to ban something.


The anti-fighting trolls use the excuse that fighting isn't really needed and it does nothing to help win games therefore remove it. They intentionally leave out the other aspects of the sport because their ok with it. We could easily fix the game to make it 100% safe. ban fighting, all body checks, and all players are required to wear full cages to protect their faces.

I mean, EVERYONE is so worried about player safety, why not start where a players most venerable?

mygameworn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 10:34 AM
  #12
Doshell Propivo
Registered User
 
Doshell Propivo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,991
vCash: 500
Regardless of one’s stance on fighting in hockey, it’s clear that it is slowly going the way of the dodo bird. It just isn’t relevant anymore. The instigator rule in the 90’s, helmets and visors have made fighting pretty insignificant now. Fights in crucial games are rare. In the playoffs even rarer. Sure a relatively meaningless game in January will see a few goons fight but I’d argue that it is no longer “part” of the game.

It’s just a matter of time before it is completely banned. And in my opinion, the game won’t suffer from it.

Doshell Propivo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 10:48 AM
  #13
I May Be Wrong
I May Be The Stig
 
I May Be Wrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,372
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to I May Be Wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Pretty much. But that's how it goes, and you can bet a newspaper like the Toronto Star is the first one to jump on the "anti-fighting" bandwagon. Bottom line is this, fighting causes far less injuries, and head injuries, than other actions in hockey. But our society is so paranoid about the boogeyman being around every corner that we want to not only wrap our kids in bubble, but everyone else in bubble. Strange world we live in.
This couldn't be more true. Everybody should just sit in doors, and only handle blunt objects. Sharp objects are too dangerous. At least we will all be "safe" though, right?

I May Be Wrong is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 11:00 AM
  #14
intangible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 822
vCash: 139
The Mayo Clinic should be releasing an article condemning arena food. Arena food, high in calories and salt, alcohol, et al lead to more problems in more people than fighting in the NHL.

intangible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 11:02 AM
  #15
Doshell Propivo
Registered User
 
Doshell Propivo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I May Be Wrong View Post
This couldn't be more true. Everybody should just sit in doors, and only handle blunt objects. Sharp objects are too dangerous. At least we will all be "safe" though, right?
I agree with this sentiment to a degree, but let me play devil's advocate. Should we ignore the new science and knowledge out there? Is it not our duty as human beings to try to create healthier and safer communities? Should we ignore the harmful effects of tobacco, DDT, asbestos, etc.?

Obviously there's a balance to it all but one certainly has to take concussions in a contact sport seriously.

Doshell Propivo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 11:09 AM
  #16
I May Be Wrong
I May Be The Stig
 
I May Be Wrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,372
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to I May Be Wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doshell Propivo View Post
I agree with this sentiment to a degree, but let me play devil's advocate. Should we ignore the new science and knowledge out there? Is it not our duty as human beings to try to create healthier and safer communities? Should we ignore the harmful effects of tobacco, DDT, asbestos, etc.?

Obviously there's a balance to it all but one certainly has to take concussions in a contact sport seriously.
I agree with you. As you mentioned technology, and science are dynamic. Perhaps we can create equipment, to protect the body better? We've already have heard about the helmets that potentially reduce the chances of receiving concussions. I am all for this kind of stuff, but I absolutely don't want to see physicality taken out of the sport. Sure, it's fighting, but then concussions will still occur, and then these same groups will start to bicker about checking, and how that is causing problems, etc. It's the slippery slope thing that I fear - it may not happen, but yeah.

I May Be Wrong is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 11:32 AM
  #17
Doshell Propivo
Registered User
 
Doshell Propivo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by intangible View Post
The Mayo Clinic should be releasing an article condemning arena food. Arena food, high in calories and salt, alcohol, et al lead to more problems in more people than fighting in the NHL.
I personally can't enjoy a good hockey game without water, brown rice cakes and organic hummus. Crudite if it's the playoffs.

Doshell Propivo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 01:06 PM
  #18
FireBergevin
ultimate warrior
 
FireBergevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
What's their stance on bodychecking? Legal and illegal, it's responsible for ~80% of concussions compared to fighting's ~5% (the remaining ~15% or so is a result of accidents and the puck hitting people).

Nobody seems to address this question: why are these concern-troll groups worried about something that causes 5% of concussions instead of something that causes 80% of them? It's a classic case of obsessing about a fly instead of the rampaging elephant right next to it.

My guess is these people just don't like the optics or symbolism of fighting. Symbolism is a terrible reason to ban something.

FireBergevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 01:14 PM
  #19
ThirdManIn
Mod Supervisor
 
ThirdManIn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 43,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
What's their stance on bodychecking? Legal and illegal, it's responsible for ~80% of concussions compared to fighting's ~5% (the remaining ~15% or so is a result of accidents and the puck hitting people).

Nobody seems to address this question: why are these concern-troll groups worried about something that causes 5% of concussions instead of something that causes 80% of them? It's a classic case of obsessing about a fly instead of the rampaging elephant right next to it.

My guess is these people just don't like the optics or symbolism of fighting. Symbolism is a terrible reason to ban something.
Just out of curiosity, do you have a source for these numbers?

__________________
She runs through my veins like a long, black river, and rattles my cage like a thunderstorm.
ThirdManIn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 01:26 PM
  #20
MonsterSurge
Registered User
 
MonsterSurge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,387
vCash: 500
I've probably been to about 100 hockey games and I haven't seen one major injury due to fighting. I have seen countless injuries due to hits, sticks, and pucks though.

MonsterSurge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #21
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Just out of curiosity, do you have a source for these numbers?
I was ballparking from memory. Underestimated hit by puck by roughly the amount I overestimated bodychecking. But the order of causes in my first post was correct: bodycheck>>>>>>accident>>>fight

Here are the actuals

Bodycheck: 69%
Fight: 8%
Accident (stick, puck, collision, unknown): 23%



http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0069122


Last edited by billybudd: 10-15-2013 at 01:43 PM.
billybudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 05:41 PM
  #22
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I was ballparking from memory. Underestimated hit by puck by roughly the amount I overestimated bodychecking. But the order of causes in my first post was correct: bodycheck>>>>>>accident>>>fight

Here are the actuals

Bodycheck: 69%
Fight: 8%
Accident (stick, puck, collision, unknown): 23%



http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0069122
Let's put all our eggs in one basket and go after the 8%. Just because............well fighting is mean, and hockey is a sport for the faint of heart.

In all seriousness, the fights per game, although early were higher at the beginning of this year than they were last year as of the weekend. This all despite the fact that people thought fighting went up last year solely because of the crammed schedule and teams facing each other more frequently in that time. Wrong. Fighting exists in the NHL and fluctuation of sorts should never be alarming. It has been the same for about 60 years give or take the spike in the 1980s.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-15-2013, 10:34 PM
  #23
Sonny Lamateena
Registered User
 
Sonny Lamateena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I was ballparking from memory. Underestimated hit by puck by roughly the amount I overestimated bodychecking. But the order of causes in my first post was correct: bodycheck>>>>>>accident>>>fight

Here are the actuals

Bodycheck: 69%
Fight: 8%
Accident (stick, puck, collision, unknown): 23%
These are excellent statistics. Any idea what percentage of fights end in concussion vs what percentage of bodychecks result in a concussion?

Sonny Lamateena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2013, 01:14 AM
  #24
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
These are excellent statistics. Any idea what percentage of fights end in concussion vs what percentage of bodychecks result in a concussion?
11 / X where X is the number of fighting majors assessed between 2009-2012. As to what X is, I don't know and don't know where to find that information (had this study bookmarked). Someone probably keeps that record, but I don't know who it would be.

billybudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2013, 01:26 PM
  #25
Morris Wanchuk
.......
 
Morris Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: War Memorial Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 14,834
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Morris Wanchuk
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
11 / X where X is the number of fighting majors assessed between 2009-2012. As to what X is, I don't know and don't know where to find that information (had this study bookmarked). Someone probably keeps that record, but I don't know who it would be.
http://www.hockeyfights.com/stats/

There were 1,905 fights in those 3 seasons.

As they mention some "fights" only 1 person got a major, but I would say the overwhelming majority had 2 fighting majors given out.

Morris Wanchuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.