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Talk Slowly and Use Small Words, its the Michael Del Zotto Thread

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Old
10-16-2013, 03:17 AM
  #51
Vitto79
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Dz has value still so to shake things up they need to consider the LD depth. I feel good mcd , Staal . Moore so if they can get a rd and even move girardi later it has to be considered

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10-16-2013, 06:05 AM
  #52
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I'm not MDZ's biggest fan, mostly because I think he's been overhyped on this board. But he isn't Delzaster-bad, he just isn't 1st-pairing material or PPQB. Not now anyway, might change this season, who knows, but he still has a lot of potential. And it's not like the rest of the team has lightened it up? But MDZ/MZA/Boyle are always the scapegoats...

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10-16-2013, 06:41 AM
  #53
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Contract is a big issue here. Del Zotto wanted big bucks when he was a group II last time. He is arbitration eligible next summer. The Rangers got Del Zotto to accept their two year bridge contract. It was a lockout year and he didn't want to draw the wrath of Tortorella. Del Zotto has been OK so far. The Rangers need to identify which players they want to keep. The Rangers still lack that offensive defenseman. Is Del Zotto that guy? I know he is 23 but its his 5th NHL season. Once you pay Del Zotto,he is yours.

Look at how many unsigned players for next season. The Rangers can trade some guys who didn't fit. Their ****** play is a wake up call.

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10-16-2013, 07:48 AM
  #54
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The issues I see with MDZ are:

1. For an offensive defenseman he is not even close to a shooting threat. His shot is nothing to write home about, but he also displays a ridiculously poor ability to even get simple shots through to the net on the rare chance he isn't trying to pick a corner from the blue line. The lack of a shooting threat limits his passing abilities because everyone on the ice knows 9x out of 10 he isn't shooting, and the one time he does it isn't a threat. And a lack of consistent offense makes it tougher to absorb his deficiencies in the defensive zone.

2. He still seems to be riding a rollercoaster of emotion game to game, period to period, at times shift to shift. More than any other player he seems to let mistakes snowball into bad games into long slumps. Maybe that will improve in time. Will it ever be good? I have my doubts. This is a player who could not stick to the Gary Roberts conditioning/diet regiment and it shows. This is a player who was outspoken about wanting to have fun and open things up over the summer. Looking to the easy road.

Maybe this is too harsh. I don't know the guy. But it is what I get from reading the tea leaves here. And it is not something I am knee jerk reacting to from this season. If i was doing that i would want every defenseman not named Staal or Stralman shipped out. Have felt this way for a while.

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Old
10-16-2013, 07:56 AM
  #55
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What does people expect from MDZ as a 3rd pairing D? He can't play the off-"wing", and he got two people infront of him.

Its like expecting a young center to score on a 3rd line border line 4th line.

I think its a bit hard to find a bigger fan of the trio Staal, McD and MDZ than me, I really like all three. But looking at our roster, its a waste to have three assets like that on the same position. One of them should be moved. I never remember hearing talk about a team that went deep being strong on the 3rd LD positon. You can play most of the important minutes with the top 2 guys. I think we should listen to offers for all three of our top LDs. You never give players like Staal or McD away, you get a return equal to what you give up.

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10-16-2013, 08:18 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The issues I see with MDZ are:

1. For an offensive defenseman he is not even close to a shooting threat. His shot is nothing to write home about, but he also displays a ridiculously poor ability to even get simple shots through to the net on the rare chance he isn't trying to pick a corner from the blue line. The lack of a shooting threat limits his passing abilities because everyone on the ice knows 9x out of 10 he isn't shooting, and the one time he does it isn't a threat. And a lack of consistent offense makes it tougher to absorb his deficiencies in the defensive zone.

2. He still seems to be riding a rollercoaster of emotion game to game, period to period, at times shift to shift. More than any other player he seems to let mistakes snowball into bad games into long slumps. Maybe that will improve in time. Will it ever be good? I have my doubts. This is a player who could not stick to the Gary Roberts conditioning/diet regiment and it shows. This is a player who was outspoken about wanting to have fun and open things up over the summer. Looking to the easy road.

Maybe this is too harsh. I don't know the guy. But it is what I get from reading the tea leaves here. And it is not something I am knee jerk reacting to from this season. If i was doing that i would want every defenseman not named Staal or Stralman shipped out. Have felt this way for a while.
All very good points. Well said.

Biggest thing for me with MDZ is that he's clearly a "comfort zone" player. When he's confident, and playing his correct side, he can be a really dynamic player. He was stellar when Staal was out with his concussion, but as soon as he was forced out of position, his play soured considerably. He still has all of the tools to be a very good #3 who sees big PP minutes, but let's face it; the Rangers are set with Staal and McDonagh on the left for the foreseeable future. You simply can't have a guy like Del Zotto on the bottom pairing forever. Especially when he's going to have arbitration in his corner next summer.

Move Moore to the right-side with Staal, and reunite the Stralman/MDZ pairing.

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Old
10-16-2013, 08:36 AM
  #57
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Keeping MDZ is a mistake. He just does not think the game well enough.

Keeping most of the roster is a mistake in my opinion. Beyond like 4 or 5 forwards and 3 or 4 of the D, does any one really imagine a cup team with these players on it?

Make it known to the players the team is going in a different direction.

Make sane extension offers to the UFAs and RFAs they want to keep before the trade deadline. If they don't sign them, sell them.

Sell the others that they do not want to keep regardless of contract years left. Yes even Nash if he's willing.

Finish in natural position.

Buyout Richards

Use the picks to draft players, not reaches, just safe talented picks. Not Sather's whims. Not team needs, just projected good NHL players who can skate, have normal size and are willing to hold onto the puck to make plays. Lean towards forwards and right handed D but don't take them just because of it.

Look to trade the players who do not want to stay through a retooling/rebuild, bring in more picks/prospects or even young NHLer.

Go into next season with the prospects they have as well as whatever was retained form their UFAs/RFAs, those who wanted to stay on sane contracts. Those who wanted to come here through trades. No new UFAs

Repeat until they have a real foundation of players who want to be here for more than money until they have a solid group of drafted and traded for players who can all play the system they are trying to get to.

Once things look a bit promising, keep doing the same thing until they run into a plateau, a real one that last two or three years, then decide if they need to add a specific player for a specific role through a trade or UFA signing.

It's called picking a direction and sticking to it. There will be bad times, there will be small mistakes. However as opposed to now where there are big mistakes and still no contention in sight it would eventually yield a strong franchise full of good player who are here for more than just the market and the money.

Then again that is the type of thing that gets GMs fired if the owner is not patient enough. it's certainly not going to help market the team and their newly renovated building. It's not going to sell luxury boxes, tickets, advertising or even papers. Most likely no playoff money for a couple years at least. I have to assume that is why it never happens for if not I have to assume this team is run by monkeys.

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Old
10-16-2013, 08:40 AM
  #58
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The "he's only XX" excuse is getting real old. He's been in the league long enough that if he is what people were/are hoping he wIll become, he would have made bigger strides towards that. Yes, he is an NHL defensemen but he is not a PPQB and he is not a first pairing shutdown defensemen. He was drafted to be the former, if he doesn't become that, the pick was a failure.

He has shown offensive touch and acceptable defense at times, but not consistently enough for me to give hm the benefit of the doubt any longer. I expect nothing above and beyond from him going forward and if he does somehow turn it all around I'll be pleasantly surprised.

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Old
10-16-2013, 09:02 AM
  #59
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I can't even deal him in my keeper league

Probably going to have to drop him soon if this play from him stays the course.

Wanted him moved in the off-season and got torched by a lot of the same people posting in this thread.

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10-16-2013, 09:03 AM
  #60
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He alright. Not as good as the hype was.

I would still trade him though.

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Old
10-16-2013, 09:12 AM
  #61
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Who is more hated here for petty reasons: MDZ or Brian Boyle? It's hard to tell.

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10-16-2013, 09:41 AM
  #62
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Good NHL D are hard to find. The Rangers can get a good deal for Del Zotto.

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Old
10-16-2013, 10:02 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Move Moore to the right-side with Staal, and reunite the Stralman/MDZ pairing.
I like this idea. I also like your assertion that DZ is a very comfort zone player. But him being a comfort zone player isn't why he can't ****ing shoot. He can do everything else, but shoot from the point. It's so frustrating.

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Old
10-16-2013, 10:54 AM
  #64
LeetchisGod
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Originally Posted by Affinity View Post
Who is more hated here for petty reasons: MDZ or Brian Boyle? It's hard to tell.
How is it petty to want an offensive defenseman to run a powerplay and shoot the puck effectively?

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Old
10-16-2013, 11:06 AM
  #65
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a package deal of delzaster and kreider or miller gets us back a good young player(s) who could slot into our top 6 and help us on the blue line right now. we need to score goals.

this group right now, with or without nasher, isnt good enough.

if its me, i dangle a deal made up of 2 of the following delz, mcilrath, kreider or miller and see what kinda goal scorer and pmd we can get back.

we have to GIVE to GET and any good deal gives each side something of value. we will not get quality back if we are offering chumps.

perfect time to move delzaster and another player and get back a guy who can help us score goals now and in the future.

top 6 forwward and an offensive skating dman is what we desperately need.

mcilrath/kreider and mdz gets it done.

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Old
10-16-2013, 01:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Two questions:

First, since you "sky is falling" types now have a thread where you can bash Del Zotto, can you stop doing it in 98% of the rest of the threads on these boards?

Second, just something to think on: Here are the 22 year old stat lines (or, if they had a better one at an earlier age, I went with that) of some of the better offensive d-men in the league. How many would you want kicked to the curb?

2-17-19
2-9-11
17-23-40
5-37-42
3-5-8
Not in the NHL
4-26-30
7-24-31
10-23-33
2-29-31

By the age of 22, Del Zotto had already put up TWO seasons better than most of these guys (9-28-37 and 10-31-41), all while drastically improving his defensive game, and getting yanked around with different partners (he's had some putrid ones) and being shoved to his off side.

The corresponding names to those 22 year old stat lines, by the way, are:

Brian Campbell
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Alex Edler
Dan Boyle
Mark Streit
Keith Yandle
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Duncan Keith

I'm not saying MDZ is going to be as good or better than these guys. He might be, he might not be. The point is that you don't panic sell on a 23 year old defenseman who has already accomplished as much as he has. Aside from the elite of the elite, most defensemen need the time to develop. Moving DZ now only ensures that we had him during "development time" and some other team gets to benefit from his prime. It'd be Marc Savard all over again.
Interesting points, I think you should be the lead pitchman to sell teams on Del Zotto before he's traded.

The problem is, in the end he either will somehow turn out as good as these guys or he won't... I think he won't, and because your line of thinking is very legitimate until proven otherwise, the Rangers still have a chance to get something decent for Del Z right now. Wait much longer, and they won't and NYR will be stuck with a dumber, slower version of John-Michael Liles.

The big argument for trading Del Z is, you can pretty easily replace him with any subpar offensive D man. Unless he becomes Duncan Keith (he's too small and jittery to be Chara, Weber, Suter, etc.) there is no real downside to trading him. If you wake up one 3rd pair offensive D from winning the cup you can grab the latest Kaberle, Liles, Leopold and move forward.

The Rangers have needs that are harder to fill, like good 2 way center, hard point shot D, if you can trade Del Z and address that, you'd be nuts to not do so because Duncan Keith had comparable offensive seasons before he became awesome.

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10-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  #67
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Nail Yakupov needs a new team asap. He doesnt fit the new Oilers system AT ALL. They scratched him two games in row. He is threatening to retire and go to the KHL. They need to move him. They also need D.

We need someone who is really offensive minded to work with all our play makers (Stepan, Richards, Brasssard, Hagelin, Zuccs).

He fits us besides style he also has less then a million cap hit for 2 more seasons which helps us out SO MUCH.

I honestly think trading them Del Zotto, either Hags or Zucc depending on who is clicking more and Boyle/2nd round pick would go through. Then we reduce our surplus of play makers. Reduce our cap. Increase our offense. We then would have a hole in our defense but I think thats easier to fix then our cap issues and lack of scoring.

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10-16-2013, 02:44 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlapshotTheMovie View Post
Nail Yakupov needs a new team asap. He doesnt fit the new Oilers system AT ALL. They scratched him two games in row. He is threatening to retire and go to the KHL. They need to move him. They also need D.

We need someone who is really offensive minded to work with all our play makers (Stepan, Richards, Brasssard, Hagelin, Zuccs).

He fits us besides style he also has less then a million cap hit for 2 more seasons which helps us out SO MUCH.

I honestly think trading them Del Zotto, either Hags or Zucc depending on who is clicking more and Boyle/2nd round pick would go through. Then we reduce our surplus of play makers. Reduce our cap. Increase our offense. We then would have a hole in our defense but I think thats easier to fix then our cap issues and lack of scoring.
Why would we want a guy who is threatening to go to the KHL? No thanks, pass.

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10-16-2013, 02:47 PM
  #69
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Why would we want a guy who is threatening to go to the KHL? No thanks, pass.
Where did he say he was threatening? Link?

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Old
10-16-2013, 03:11 PM
  #70
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Only way moving MDZ makes sense is if we get a guy who can score goals to pair with Brass and/or Zuke.

Besides that, the consistent nagging about MDZ has been one of the worst trends on this board.

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Old
10-16-2013, 03:16 PM
  #71
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Im not so sure that Del Zotto poses any sort of long-term solution to this team is he can't run the powerplay, and this is something hes gotten worse and worse at as the years have gone on.

Considering hes due a new contract, I think hes trade bait A#1 as the season progresses.

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10-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #72
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Once again this team suffers without having a Brian Leetch. And once again the guy who's best at filling his shoes but isn't good enough to do it, is vilified. DZ isn't a bad blueliner, he's just not a #1 PMD. He's just the best PMD we've got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeetchisGod View Post
This team has one true sniper and he is becoming concussion prone. We are not going anywhere with this offense.
A shooter isn't the issue with the offense. Puck possession is. Like it or not, MDZ is the best puck carrying blueliner on this squad and removing him, doesn't help the possession game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Only way moving MDZ makes sense is if we get a guy who can score goals to pair with Brass and/or Zuke.

Besides that, the consistent nagging about MDZ has been one of the worst trends on this board.
Rozsival esq.

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10-16-2013, 03:26 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlapshotTheMovie View Post
Nail Yakupov needs a new team asap. He doesnt fit the new Oilers system AT ALL. They scratched him two games in row. He is threatening to retire and go to the KHL. They need to move him. They also need D.

We need someone who is really offensive minded to work with all our play makers (Stepan, Richards, Brasssard, Hagelin, Zuccs).

He fits us besides style he also has less then a million cap hit for 2 more seasons which helps us out SO MUCH.

I honestly think trading them Del Zotto, either Hags or Zucc depending on who is clicking more and Boyle/2nd round pick would go through. Then we reduce our surplus of play makers. Reduce our cap. Increase our offense. We then would have a hole in our defense but I think thats easier to fix then our cap issues and lack of scoring.
I would sure give up Del Zotto, Hagelin, Zuccarello, and a few others to land Yakupov.

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10-16-2013, 03:26 PM
  #74
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Where did he say he was threatening? Link?
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...turn-to-russia

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Old
10-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #75
Raspewtin
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whoa I had no idea Nail was considering going to Russia.

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