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Jacob Markstrom - Not Impressed.

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Old
10-16-2013, 09:49 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellyr View Post
The very definition of a weak goal is that the defense doesn´t matter- it´s a weak goal by the goalie.
Yes thank you, I'm saying some weak goals happen because he lacks confidence in his defense.

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10-16-2013, 09:50 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Yes thank you, I'm saying some weak goals happen because he lacks confidence in his defense.
Which is just a weak excuse to bail out Markstrom.

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10-16-2013, 10:23 AM
  #28
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He's looked good for a couple games in his career. But hasn't shown consistency. The D sucks but he's let in too many weak goals.

So far I am not impressed either. I hope it's just temporary.

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10-16-2013, 10:27 AM
  #29
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Like I said earlier too. I'm not impressed with him either. His devolopment looks like it's gone backwards. He drops to down to his knees every single freaking time the puck is near him or shot torwards him. The agility he was praised to having isn't seen at all anymore. I think we need a new goaltending coach. Would be cool if Beezer would join as goaltending coach. With our luck if we change goalie coach we'll get a guy like Steve Shields

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10-16-2013, 10:30 AM
  #30
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I want to say to give the kid a break because he's only played 37 NHL games, but I see the need for concern. That is a good point about his positioning because maybe he doesn't have the faith for the defense in front of him that he has to come out and challenge. For his poor games so far, I partially blame him and partially blame certain defensive players for letting too many shots get to him. I don't think sending him to San Antonio to start would be good for his ego as he's already made it here this far, but I can see why Dineen brought in Thomas due to experience. I think that's what Markstrom really needs and it will come. I am concerned that he may not be elite at all in his career, but I do want to see if he progresses more this season to have more big games as he did against the Pens. I expect him to be the starter next season assuming Thomas isn't re-signed, so I take this season (which is probably going to be a wash anyway) as his last learning one before he really has to take responsibility as one of the main elements of this team for years to come.

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10-16-2013, 11:09 AM
  #31
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I don't know. Seems like a knee jerk re action on OP's part and the rest supporting his claims. We're only 37 games into his career on a team full of fillers.

Until Marky gets a real team in front of him it doesn't matter what goalie is in that net, the other team will score any goal possible. Even Thomas got lite up.

I'm in no way defending Marky's play either. It has been questionable at times but how can you expect a 23yr old(yes still young folks) to gain ANY confidence what so ever with the CONSTANT passing the puck up the middle of the freakin ice anytime we have control of it in our zone?

HOW? I'm not sure who to blame. If its coaching staffs game plan or just the players lacking focus but we give the puck away up the middle so much, it makes me so mad I almost like it.

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10-16-2013, 11:45 AM
  #32
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I've seen Marky play since he made his debut in "Kvalserien" (a relegation league in Swedish Hockey, definitely as much as pressure as the Stanley Cup-playoffs) at 17 years old and straight away he dominated. I then saw him completely dominate the Swedish Hockey League as a youngling, play amazing hockey in the JWC for a couple of years before leaving for Florida (prematurely IMHO). Last spring, he was great as a backup for Jhonas Enroth (had the tournament of his career, otherwise Marky would've been the #1) when Sweden won the WHC (being forced to jump in cold turkey for a shift in the Sudden Death against Canada etc.)

Since he went over, he's been consistently growing in the AHL and fighting the puck a bit in the big league. He has weaknesses, mainly sitting too deep and angles, but I'm going to pin a lot of this on his absolutely horrid D-Men in front of him. I watch tons of hockey and not many teams play worse D than you (not trying to offend you, it's just my opinion). He's played 37 games behind a very weak NHL team and has done decent. He can definitely do better, and he has been far from amazing. However, he's already in his "3rd NHL-season" at 23.

Henrik Lundqvist was 23 y.o. when he played his first NHL game. Jacob Markstrom has played 37 games at the same age. He WILL become an elite goaltender if he is given time, a better D corp and especially the confidence to play even if he has a weak game or two. 23 is still very young for a goalie, I belive Jacob is the youngest #1 in the league, no?

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10-16-2013, 11:52 AM
  #33
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I agree with Gabriel that Louie was very good for most of his tenure here with totally inept defense in front of him. And he was young when he came from NYI. So in my opinion poor D and being 23 are not good enough explanations, even if they don't make things any easier. Marky's just not on the same planet as Louie was. At least not now.

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10-16-2013, 11:58 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
I agree with Gabriel that Louie was very good for most of his tenure here with totally inept defense in front of him. And he was young when he came from NYI. So in my opinion poor D and being 23 are not good enough explanations, even if they don't make things any easier. Marky's just not on the same planet as Louie was. At least not now.
That just serves to illustrate how good and under appreciated Luongo is. Some of his best years were wasted carrying garbage Panther teams.

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10-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellyr View Post
Which is just a weak excuse to bail out Markstrom.
Why have defensmen at all? We should just have 5 forwards on the ice.

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10-16-2013, 01:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellyr View Post
Which is just a weak excuse to bail out Markstrom.
One thing if I said all, or hinted at most, but I said some. Some weakies are his fault, but as I asked earlier, how would he look on Detroit? Or Boston? Or any strong team.

Last thing I want is a player to make excuses for, especially in net.

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10-16-2013, 01:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
I agree with Gabriel that Louie was very good for most of his tenure here with totally inept defense in front of him. And he was young when he came from NYI. So in my opinion poor D and being 23 are not good enough explanations, even if they don't make things any easier. Marky's just not on the same planet as Louie was. At least not now.
I didn't realize Marky and Lou are the exact same specimen. I forgot all goalies mature at the exact same pace.

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10-16-2013, 01:56 PM
  #38
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I think it's safe to blame each player equally and not just Markstrom. It is a "Team" game afterall and while Markstrom has let in a lot of weak,soft goals, he's also stood on his head a lot too. This team makes a lot of basic,fundamental mistakes that they need to work out. I feel like, if the team went back to basics and played a more simpler game, as well as gave 100% effort, we'd have a different outcome. They need to work on their passes, dump and chase, faceoffs, PP, PK, and of coarse SHOTS ON GOAL. They need to battle harder in the corners and not get beat to the puck. We've seen in games like Dallas and Pitt, that when they do simplify their game and give a solid effort,they end up with a winning result.

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10-16-2013, 02:12 PM
  #39
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Yes, Markström has let in some soft goals, but he has always made some huge saves. He hasn't really gotten the help he deserved from the team in front of him.

We simply cannot afford to trade Markström, we have noone else. Thomas is 39, Clemmer suck and no really highend goalie prospect after Brittain got injured.

Let him gain experience, and Tallon can spend on some quality defensemen or something.

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10-16-2013, 02:17 PM
  #40
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I don't think anyone's trading him now. We're just not very - impressed.

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10-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #41
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Hopefully Thomas come back soon and we can send Markie down for seasoning some more

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10-16-2013, 02:53 PM
  #42
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I still have high hopes for Markstrom but my expectations seemed to be slowly getting lower every game. He is still very young and I think that he will start playing better in a backup role right now in his career, I want him to follow the same route Rask took, ~2 years as a backup then start. I did expect to see more games like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ff6PtGBQ-E but he has not stolen a game since then imo.

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10-16-2013, 02:53 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
Hopefully Thomas come back soon and we can send Markie down for seasoning some more
Sending him down does nothing.

He needs NHL shots and NHL experience.

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10-16-2013, 03:15 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Sending him down does nothing.

He needs NHL shots and NHL experience.
Exactly.

He has gotten a game here and a game there, but now he can get more games in a row to build his confidence.

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10-16-2013, 03:57 PM
  #45
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If Thomas were still healthy, Markstrom would have maybe two starts by now, and this thread wouldn't exist.

Too good for the AHL. Not good enough to be an NHL No. 1.

He's an NHL back-up at this point.

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10-16-2013, 04:03 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Confidence, IMO, is the most important aspect when challenging outside the crease. If you lack confidence, albeit in yourself or your teammates in front of you, you arent going to challenge the opposition as frequently, and you are going to go more into a defensive mode. Couldnt we all take life as an example to that, meaning how we are more protective when we are less confident, and vice versa? Once we see this team's defense improve, meaning the forwards as well ,we will see a better Markstrom.
It seems obvious, but yes, you are right.

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Originally Posted by RampageNate View Post
Funny, I was going to make an identical thread but aimed at Kulikov. What exactly was he doing on the goal in question, anyway?

I admit, I haven't watched a lot of FLA games, but from what I've seen Kulikov has been absolutely awful in his own end.
You can make an identical thread about half our defensemen. Kuli is a solid 2nd pairing guy, but he's prone to the occasional massive brainfart. I don't really know why, and it's definitely strange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoeticgoblin View Post
I've seen Marky play since he made his debut in "Kvalserien" (a relegation league in Swedish Hockey, definitely as much as pressure as the Stanley Cup-playoffs) at 17 years old and straight away he dominated. I then saw him completely dominate the Swedish Hockey League as a youngling, play amazing hockey in the JWC for a couple of years before leaving for Florida (prematurely IMHO). Last spring, he was great as a backup for Jhonas Enroth (had the tournament of his career, otherwise Marky would've been the #1) when Sweden won the WHC (being forced to jump in cold turkey for a shift in the Sudden Death against Canada etc.)

Since he went over, he's been consistently growing in the AHL and fighting the puck a bit in the big league. He has weaknesses, mainly sitting too deep and angles, but I'm going to pin a lot of this on his absolutely horrid D-Men in front of him. I watch tons of hockey and not many teams play worse D than you (not trying to offend you, it's just my opinion). He's played 37 games behind a very weak NHL team and has done decent. He can definitely do better, and he has been far from amazing. However, he's already in his "3rd NHL-season" at 23.

Henrik Lundqvist was 23 y.o. when he played his first NHL game. Jacob Markstrom has played 37 games at the same age. He WILL become an elite goaltender if he is given time, a better D corp and especially the confidence to play even if he has a weak game or two. 23 is still very young for a goalie, I belive Jacob is the youngest #1 in the league, no?
Exactly. I keep saying this.

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Old
10-16-2013, 04:14 PM
  #47
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Goaltending development is erratic. Established Goaltenders see fluctuations in performance year on year.

At 23 Markstrom is definitely too young to judge with any great accuracy. In my few viewings of him over the past year, i've never been overly impressed, but i'm clueless on Goaltenders. Size and athleticism are clearly there.

Lehtonen took years to establish himself as an upper echeloen #1. Varlamov for all his outstanding raw ability, hasn't translated it into a high end season yet. Price hasn't truely estalished himself as an elite Goalie either IMO. Pavelec hasn't translated raw ability into being an above average NHL goalie. Crawford/Howard took years. Rask, who is abit of an outlier to me (awesome out of the gate) has had 2 years starting. Schneider isn't an established starter yet (He was drafted in 2004!). Bernier isn't an established starter yet. It takes a lot of time and the right environment for a young hyped Goaltender to establish himself.

The only lesson to take from the development of Markstrom is that the "OMG this prospect is sick! Can't wait future stud!" mentality is so flawed. Development of players to the NHL is a slow and difficult process for most, nevermind Goaltenders.

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10-16-2013, 11:26 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Goaltending development is erratic. Established Goaltenders see fluctuations in performance year on year.

At 23 Markstrom is definitely too young to judge with any great accuracy. In my few viewings of him over the past year, i've never been overly impressed, but i'm clueless on Goaltenders. Size and athleticism are clearly there.

Lehtonen took years to establish himself as an upper echeloen #1. Varlamov for all his outstanding raw ability, hasn't translated it into a high end season yet. Price hasn't truely estalished himself as an elite Goalie either IMO. Pavelec hasn't translated raw ability into being an above average NHL goalie. Crawford/Howard took years. Rask, who is abit of an outlier to me (awesome out of the gate) has had 2 years starting. Schneider isn't an established starter yet (He was drafted in 2004!). Bernier isn't an established starter yet. It takes a lot of time and the right environment for a young hyped Goaltender to establish himself.

The only lesson to take from the development of Markstrom is that the "OMG this prospect is sick! Can't wait future stud!" mentality is so flawed. Development of players to the NHL is a slow and difficult process for most, nevermind Goaltenders.

A lot of it is the mental aspect. A goalie can have all the tools (size, agility, etc) but never succeed if his head isn't right. This current environment isn't conducive to a young goaltender's development. However, I will say that having a mentor like Thomas is invaluable considering the circumstances. Timmy has confidence in spades and he seems like the type that doesn't accept excuses easily.

To go back to what I said about Markstrom's confidence in his defense...not so much an excuse for him, but just an observation. I 100% agree he isn't anywhere near the level of Luongo during his time here. Louie figured out how to overcome crap defense, but Markstrom hasn't gotten to that point yet. IMO, I doubt he will, as I think he's the type of goaltender that excels with a defense that is tailored to his playing style. Luongo, on the other hand, is the type of goalie that learns to adapt to whatever defense is put in front of him.

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Old
10-16-2013, 11:37 PM
  #49
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Once again we are over-reacting. Our defensive turnovers are horrendous, Markstrom has made PLENTY of good saves after breakdowns (I am having visions of Gudbranson's turnover that left a Nashville player alone in front of Marky... uggh... yet that was a save).

Yes, he let in a soft goal, but our goaltenders are constantly having to face quality shots by the opposition. You think any other goaltender will fare better with our turn-over prone defense? Not so sure as you guys seem to be. Even Lundqvist has gotten off to a bad start this year because the Ranger's defense has been terrible so far. What happens when you get a good defensive effort from the team? He blanks the Capitals with Ovechkin because he only faced 22 shots...it is not that hard to understand. Not diminishing Lundqvist's ability, but it helps tremendously when you have a good defensive effort in front of you.

Until we have a decent and consistent defensive effort from the team, I reserve judgement on Markstrom.


Last edited by Chino Oscar: 10-16-2013 at 11:48 PM.
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Old
10-17-2013, 02:30 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eadig View Post
I still have high hopes for Markstrom but my expectations seemed to be slowly getting lower every game. He is still very young and I think that he will start playing better in a backup role right now in his career, I want him to follow the same route Rask took, ~2 years as a backup then start. I did expect to see more games like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ff6PtGBQ-E but he has not stolen a game since then imo.
Man he looked absolutely dominant in that game. Maybe he should go back to #35

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