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Alain Vigneault puts players on notice

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Old
10-17-2013, 08:16 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I think that is the way any team wins. You can infuse as much skill as you want, if you aren't winning the battles in hard areas, you will rarely win.

They looked faster and better than at pretty much any point last year.
Then why were so many people complaining about it when Tortorella built a strategy around it?

People who are looking for pretty rushes and tic-tac-toe passing are going to be sorely disappointed, again.

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10-17-2013, 08:17 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I think that is the way any team wins. You can infuse as much skill as you want, if you aren't winning the battles in hard areas, you will rarely win.

They looked faster and better than at pretty much any point last year.
Agreed. AV didn't turn the dial back to Torts' system last night. They certainly played hard, blocked shots, and forechecked like madmen, but they also managed to enter the zone with the puck, be effective on the powerplay, and transition the puck out of their own end. It looked like things started to click.

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10-17-2013, 08:19 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Then why were so many people complaining about it when Tortorella built a strategy around it?

People who are looking for pretty rushes and tic-tac-toe passing are going to be sorely disappointed, again.
The Callahan line showed more creativity last night than I saw for most of last season.

I agree, they aren't going to turn into the Red Wings over night, but I thought last nights gameplan was a nice mixture. Hopefully it continues to move forward towards what AV wants.

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10-17-2013, 08:19 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Then why were so many people complaining about it when Tortorella built a strategy around it?

People who are looking for pretty rushes and tic-tac-toe passing are going to be sorely disappointed, again.
People complained about the passive defensive strategy that killed our transition game. Our transition game has been markedly better this year, even though the overall results haven't measured up yet.

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10-17-2013, 08:19 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Pistachio View Post
When only one or two players "produce", maybe it's time to look at the coaching instead of the players.
Why? He's asking players who have never produced to produce. Maybe its time to look at the person/people who signed these players and built a roster where only one or two players produce.

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10-17-2013, 08:22 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Pistachio View Post
I'm still convinced that most of the problems stem from the incredibly stupid method of moving the puck. Up the boards, dump to the boards. With a team like this, that doesn't work.
They way they move the puck will give Taylor Pyatt a heart, Benoit Pouliot a brain and Mats Zuccarello an extra five inches and 20 pounds in height and weight?

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10-17-2013, 08:23 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I was thrilled to hear some of the buzzwords coming from the coach, commentators, and players last night.

Things like "grind" "energy" "passion" "chip the puck behind the defense" "work below the hashmarks"

Sound familiar? The only way this team wins is it if brings its lunch pail to work every night and wins the battles in the tough areas of the ice. I think Vigneault got a rude awakening when it comes to personnel, and it became apparent over the first 5 games that opening things up is not an option.
De ja blue.

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10-17-2013, 08:24 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I think that is the way any team wins. You can infuse as much skill as you want, if you aren't winning the battles in hard areas, you will rarely win.

They looked faster and better than at pretty much any point last year.
They looked faster because Washington is the slowest team they've played so far. They won because they played to their strengths.

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10-17-2013, 08:25 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
They looked faster because Washington is the slowest team they've played so far. They won because they played to their strengths.
Was last nights game that much different than the LA game? Did they revert back to Torts system in that game?

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10-17-2013, 08:25 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
The Callahan line showed more creativity last night than I saw for most of last season.

I agree, they aren't going to turn into the Red Wings over night, but I thought last nights gameplan was a nice mixture. Hopefully it continues to move forward towards what AV wants.
That's because the Callahan line features two of the few legit NHL forwards this team has.

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10-17-2013, 08:26 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Was last nights game that much different than the LA game? Did they revert back to Torts system in that game?
To me it did. That may be because they didn't have Nash.

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10-17-2013, 08:29 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
People complained about the passive defensive strategy that killed our transition game. Our transition game has been markedly better this year, even though the overall results haven't measured up yet.
I agree with you there, although I thought the Caps were brutal last night, so we'll see how it goes. It's risk vs. reward. The man to man coverage, when it works, allows for an easier passage out of the zone. It also has led to a lot of confusion and running around even in the first period last night.

Then, theres what they do when they leave the zone which, in my opinion, highlights the deficiencies with this team when it comes to skill. They were more of a dump and chase team last night that came with a hard fore-check and great work below the circles. I think what a lot of people want to see are pretty plays off the rush when transitioning out of the defensive zone. That ain't gonna happen too often with this group, especially with Nash out.

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10-17-2013, 08:29 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
To me it did. That may be because they didn't have Nash.
I think that's the only difference in the games. I saw a nice hybrid. Obviously they can't be a tic-tac-toe team right now.

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10-17-2013, 08:29 AM
  #164
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Washington was the worst team they've played thus far. The entire East isn't that good. I picked the Rangers to finish 2nd in the division, prior to the season. If they can play like they did last night more times than not, they'll be in good shape.

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10-17-2013, 08:31 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I think that's the only difference in the games. I saw a nice hybrid. Obviously they can't be a tic-tac-toe team right now.
I don't know. They took it to the Kings. I likened the first period to an outclassed boxer clinging to the better fighter and trying to tie him up. The whole game, to me had more of "Torts feel". Again, when you lose your top offensive player, you need to make adjustments.

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10-17-2013, 08:32 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Washington was the worst team they've played thus far. The entire East isn't that good. I picked the Rangers to finish 2nd in the division, prior to the season. If they can play like they did last night more times than not, they'll be in good shape.
You mean they'll be OK is they don't give up any goals....(half serious)

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10-17-2013, 08:55 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
hey av, bring up some kids. let them play.

sit down the aging, slow, lumbering vets whose best days are behind them. if they cant fill a role bottom 6, cut them loose. the answer isnt playing them more in roles they cannot play.

playing guys out of position due to injuries isnt gonna help. skill guys have to play top 6 and bottom 6 types need to play there. they cannot be moved up to play more minutes. they will fail.

in this age of salary cap restrictions, you gotta develop a steady stream of kids who can fill in and then move up. they cant do either if they dont get a real chance to play, develop and contribute.

we cannot afford for guys like kreider and miller to labor in the ahl. both of those guys need to be playing in ny every night. period.

they CANT be any worse than what weve showcased so far.

these young guys all have talent. the moment nash is healthy and we get back hags, add miller and kreider to the top 9 and let them play.

move delzaster for a scorer.
But it can hurt their development.
What a pity if the don't reach their ceiling because their forced into situations their not ready for yet?

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10-17-2013, 09:01 AM
  #168
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But it can hurt their development.
What a pity if the don't reach their ceiling because their forced into situations their not ready for yet?
It's not a question of huritng their development. It's what's best for the their development. Neither of have have torn up the A. So they're hardly "languishing".

If they really need to have two players who aren't ready for the NHL, that should say plenty about this team's organizational depth.

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10-17-2013, 09:08 AM
  #169
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I agree with some of the posts above - definitely more of a Torts-like, low-scoring game last night. The Rangers have to put in that type of effort all the time if they want to win games.

There were lots of complaints about "dump and chase" and "grinding it out" last year. A few went as far as to say they are sicking of hearing buzzwords like "hard work" and "effort."

I think some fans see things in black and white. "AV will open things up so that means the team should no longer dump and chase or block shots." Viper is right - these are the type of things that every team must do. It doesn't matter who the coach is or the system is.

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10-17-2013, 09:09 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's not a question of huritng their development. It's what's best for the their development. Neither of have have torn up the A. So they're hardly "languishing".

If they really need to have two players who aren't ready for the NHL, that should say plenty about this team's organizational depth.
This - when healthy, the top 6 doesn't look so bad.

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Richards - Brassard - Callahan

Thats formidable.

We need help in the bottom 6. Zuccarello and Pouliot do nothing down there (or nothing in the top 6, while we're at it). Miller and Kreider clearly need more time in the AHL. Insisting they should be up is a byproduct of not having anybody else and panicking.

Why can't this organization develop a couple of cheap 3rd/4th line players?

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10-17-2013, 09:20 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree with you there, although I thought the Caps were brutal last night, so we'll see how it goes. It's risk vs. reward. The man to man coverage, when it works, allows for an easier passage out of the zone. It also has led to a lot of confusion and running around even in the first period last night.

Then, theres what they do when they leave the zone which, in my opinion, highlights the deficiencies with this team when it comes to skill. They were more of a dump and chase team last night that came with a hard fore-check and great work below the circles. I think what a lot of people want to see are pretty plays off the rush when transitioning out of the defensive zone. That ain't gonna happen too often with this group, especially with Nash out.
Every team in the league is a dump and chase team, though. The Hawks are. The Kings are. The Red Wings are. The Bruins are. The Penguins are. All of those teams dump the puck more than they rush the puck. They rush the puck when the opportunity is there for them to do it. The Rangers did that last night too, and for the most part, they did it fine when they could. Those people who expected a pretty rush team were being naive. Not only is that a losing strategy in the NHL today, it's also not the strategy Vigneault used in Vancouver. Contrary to belief around here, Vigneault never preached an aggressive offensive game. What he did preach was a simple and sound system that allowed his players to use their creativity when the option was there.

Anyway, where I'm most concerned about the man to man right now isn't in defending the cycle. It's on defending the rushes when they do come. Guys still don't seem to know who they're supposed to pick up on the backcheck, and that makes the defenders unsure of where to commit.

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10-17-2013, 09:48 AM
  #172
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It's about reading the play and having players who read it properly.

You can only rush the puck by taking what the defense gives. If rushing the puck falls apart due to what the defense did on any particular play dumping the puck is the best option. If your team mates are tired, if there is a high likelihood of a turnover, if a wing has a full head of steam towards that corner when the man playing him has to turn.

There are all sort of reason to dump the puck, but it can not be the end all be all. If the play is there is has to be attempted to make dumping the puck when needed more effective.

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10-17-2013, 10:14 AM
  #173
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Some hockey writers picked the Caps to play in the Finals. The Rangers have outscored them 7-0 in the last two games in DC. The Rangers won last night. Big deal. The Rangers played a team with bigger problems than them. Jersey is next. They have bigger issues than the Rangers. Clowe suffered another concussion on a hit by Bogosian. The Rangers are 8-2-1 in their last 11 regular season games against the Caps. 5-0 in DC.

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10-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #174
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When did you get a phd in psychology? Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make them mentally unstable which is what you implied.

Having talent on D and in net can only get you so far, like the '11-'12 team . When people say this team isn't talented enough they are talking about the ability to put the puck in the net, which last time I checked you need to do more than the other team to win.

On the topic of just get in and see what happens, that's what we've been doing for the last several years. That type of mentality can often lead to poor decisions. When does just making the playoffs stop being good enough? Yea, you have to be in it to win it but a good management team knows when the odds aren't in their favor and reacts accordingly.
any person who thinks the team that lost 9-2 to SJ, and lost 6-0 to Anaheim is the team we'll see all year is insane, has mental problems, and should be checked into an asylum.

that was what i was implying.

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10-17-2013, 10:38 AM
  #175
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Good win last night, but I really hate AV. Something about him bothers me...a lot.

I loved Torts... and towards the end I even said it might be time for a change...but in retrospect, it was probably a bad decision.

I would love Laviolette, and it's a shame we're stuck with this fool.

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