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Old
10-17-2013, 09:04 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
For me, it's not just about the ability to fight or deliver a hit, it's about teammates having the mindset of supporting and protecting one another. It should be instinctual. When Hansen elbowed Hossa last season, Toews immediately went after Hansen and Hjalmarsson was right behind him. The linesman got involved before a fight ensued, so it won't show up on the scoresheet. But the Blackhawks had the right mentality - they showed a willingness to stand up for their teammate. It's not something we have seen a lot from the Rangers this season.
This is well put. The team is beginning to remind me of the team that stood around as Jagr was run. By Cory Cross of all people.

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Old
10-17-2013, 09:11 AM
  #352
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It's not just about responding either! How about dictating the physical play for once? Maybe there is no direct correlation between team toughness and preventing guys from taking cheap shots but why does this team always seem to be on the receiving end of illegal or borderline hits? We're not exactly known for doing the same to other teams.

Players like Lucic or Neil are elite when it comes to their particular skill set but there's no reason we can't dress a few guys just a notch below them that have an impact on the game and more importantly over the course of a playoff round.

Everyone likes to say there are only so many guys like that but when some teams employ more than one player who fits that description it would seem to suggest that they are out there and that we, for whatever reason, are incapable of finding them.


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10-17-2013, 09:23 AM
  #353
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This team needs measured aggression. Last night everyone wanted Brouwers head (including myself). A retaliation at that point would have done nothing but put us down a man for 2 minutes. We set the tone physically in the offensive zone. Our forecheck was fantastic. What we need is to be grittier in our own end, especially with man-to-man coverage, and to stick a few people in the neutral zone to slow down the counter attack. One big hit across the middle early in the game will make opposing attackers hesitate.

What we don't need is an enforcer. A guy sitting on the bench for 55 minutes isn't going to deter anyone.

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10-17-2013, 09:39 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
This team needs measured aggression. Last night everyone wanted Brouwers head (including myself). A retaliation at that point would have done nothing but put us down a man for 2 minutes. We set the tone physically in the offensive zone. Our forecheck was fantastic. What we need is to be grittier in our own end, especially with man-to-man coverage, and to stick a few people in the neutral zone to slow down the counter attack. One big hit across the middle early in the game will make opposing attackers hesitate.

What we don't need is an enforcer. A guy sitting on the bench for 55 minutes isn't going to deter anyone.
Agreed, it needs to be a team mindset. Designating one guy to take care of it does nothing in terms of keeping the other team honest.

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10-17-2013, 09:58 AM
  #355
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Agreed, it needs to be a team mindset. Designating one guy to take care of it does nothing in terms of keeping the other team honest.
A team mindset is right, and it has to be directly after the action. Not on the next shift or later in the game, it has to be right after it happens.

Take the penalties if it comes to it. Usually the refs after the scrum will try to even the man power on the ice anyway because they usually understand why the team reacted in such a way in the first place.

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10-17-2013, 10:05 AM
  #356
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A physical team mindset is hard to have when your roster is full of non physical players..I'm sorry it just cant happen unless you have a few badasses in the lineup on a nightly basis

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10-17-2013, 10:11 AM
  #357
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I would argue that a better deterrent to having teams run your players than a heavyweight goon is a lethal power play.

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10-17-2013, 10:12 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
A team mindset is right, and it has to be directly after the action. Not on the next shift or later in the game, it has to be right after it happens.

Take the penalties if it comes to it. Usually the refs after the scrum will try to even the man power on the ice anyway because they usually understand why the team reacted in such a way in the first place.
Wrong. It needs to be before these things happen. You need to set the tone early in the game, and even more importantly, you need to bring the reputation to the rink that you're not a team that will be ****ed with. Be proactive, not reactive. An eye for an eye reaction like that just tells the other team they can sucker you into putting yourself in an even worse spot. Having a reputation that you'll retaliate is almost as bad as having the reputation that you're soft.

Brouwer wasn't getting a penalty on that play. If someone goes after him, the odds are that we'd be down a man and the best PP in the league this season would have had a chance to get back into the game. The win is the most important thing.

You want to be the team that can play a physical game while staying out of the box. Even better if you have a lethal PP to punish them if they start to crumble.

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10-17-2013, 10:15 AM
  #359
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I also love the argument that supposedly since nobody killed Brad Stuart or Troy Brouwer, every team we face will turn into goons and cheapshot everyone on our team.
i don't think it's that opponents consciously and actively decide to play rougher and dirtier against the rangers. it's a passive tendency to not worry about the rangers. i'd like the rangers to put the opponents on guard, if not eggshells. make them 'mind their p's and q's', so to speak.

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10-17-2013, 10:27 AM
  #360
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Wrong. It needs to be before these things happen. You need to set the tone early in the game, and even more importantly, you need to bring the reputation to the rink that you're not a team that will be ****ed with. Be proactive, not reactive. An eye for an eye reaction like that just tells the other team they can sucker you into putting yourself in an even worse spot. Having a reputation that you'll retaliate is almost as bad as having the reputation that you're soft.

Brouwer wasn't getting a penalty on that play. If someone goes after him, the odds are that we'd be down a man and the best PP in the league this season would have had a chance to get back into the game. The win is the most important thing.

You want to be the team that can play a physical game while staying out of the box. Even better if you have a lethal PP to punish them if they start to crumble.
You must have missed the San Jose Blues game the other night. The refs knew why San Jose did what they did, San Jose walked away with plenty of power plays even though they exacted their revenge.

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10-17-2013, 10:35 AM
  #361
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You must have missed the San Jose Blues game the other night. The refs knew why San Jose did what they did, San Jose walked away with plenty of power plays even though they exacted their revenge.
that is what usualy happens if the refs call it right...



having said that im glad that the Rangers will miss Kaleta when they play Buffalo at the end of the month, since Kaleta got suspended and will be able to return on Nov 2..

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Old
10-17-2013, 10:36 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I would argue that a better deterrent to having teams run your players than a heavyweight goon is a lethal power play.
A real deterrent would be both, a retaliation and a good power play.

If it was any other way we would not see teams do what they do when one of their players gets blindsided. The Rangers are one of the few turn the other cheek teams in the league. The Islanders the other night retaliated when Buffalo was playing Tavares in a way they did not like.

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10-17-2013, 10:48 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
that is what usualy happens if the refs call it right...



having said that im glad that the Rangers will miss Kaleta when they play Buffalo at the end of the month, since Kaleta got suspended and will be able to return on Nov 2..
They certainly are not going to call it right the next shift or later in the game. Refs, most of them played, they understand an emotion response to a perceived dirty play right after the action. For the most part they try to keep the game under control from that point on. Having a team play 4 on 4 after the action is the best way to accomplish that.

As far as Kaleta, he's not much different than what Cooke is or used to be, the league policing the game does not stop them from injuring players. The league punishing those who try to serve frontier justice makes it even worse.

Yes things used to get out of hand, they needed to do something. I'm fine with them trying to get rid of staged fights, fine with them suspending players but no matter what they do they should not over penalize a justified emotion response to a dirty play and expect the player who caused the emotion response to change his ways because they suspended him for a couple games. All that does is make that player more effective, they are basically rewarding dirty play.

The NHLPA and the NHL should have worked this whole thing out better. The PA is trying to protect such a small minority of their membership while leaving exposed a much larger portion of the membership.

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Old
10-17-2013, 11:14 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
What we don't need is an enforcer. A guy sitting on the bench for 55 minutes isn't going to deter anyone.
If other teams heavyweights hurt Nash, Callahan, Brassard...and we have no answer. Would you say the same thing?

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Old
10-17-2013, 11:24 AM
  #365
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If other teams heavyweights hurt Nash, Callahan, Brassard...and we have no answer. Would you say the same thing?
What heavyweights are you talking about? Nash got hurt by Stuart and Lucic. Those aren't the kind of players you're talking about.

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10-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
If other teams heavyweights hurt Nash, Callahan, Brassard...and we have no answer. Would you say the same thing?
what if this happened... say Rangers play Flyers and Rinaldo just started to throw punches at Nash




or if this happened again





how would Rangers fans feel if these two things happened???

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10-17-2013, 11:36 AM
  #367
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Listen guys i know most of you hate me and thats cool we all have an opinion and mine is different then most but here it is..


The Rangers are breed losers .. i know we all love this team but once a guy becomes a Ranger he becomes a fat cat content on making his millions and simply not caring. This goes back 50 yr with this team and other then Messier and Graves name a guy that signed or was traded for and excelled here?

The team has for yrs become whinning lil B$tches with the Refs and not policed themselves. The team 2 yrs ago was the first and will be the last not to be pushed around since the early 90's. And can't argue with the success they had..

Yes Chicago won the cup and barely fought. Boston should have won the cup and fought a ton so whats the point?

Captain Chris was crushed in Calgary and no one did a thing
McD two times took shots to the head and not a thing was done
Staal was almost killed by his own brother nothing was done
Hank has been run into dozens of times and nada
Last night was a great example not a single guy stepped up and did a thing.. Why cause the Rangers are small, finesse and completely not a tough team..
Bickel sure as hell is as good as Faulk and can at least be a guy who would stand up for his team..
Fighting is part of the game and we failed to address it ..
Flyers
Bruins
Columbus
Islanders
Pens
Buffalo
all in the conference and all much tougher

Yes skill wins and we dont have enough skill not to be tough

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Old
10-17-2013, 11:38 AM
  #368
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Girardi & Del Zotto standing there like fans. Still embarrassing, three years later.

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10-17-2013, 11:47 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
What heavyweights are you talking about? Nash got hurt by Stuart and Lucic. Those aren't the kind of players you're talking about.
Doesn't matter. We dont have an answer for Lucic either.

We have some players who try, but end up taking a beating. GM needs to deal with this.

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10-17-2013, 11:51 AM
  #370
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Listen guys i know most of you hate me and thats cool we all have an opinion and mine is different then most but here it is..


The Rangers are breed losers .. i know we all love this team but once a guy becomes a Ranger he becomes a fat cat content on making his millions and simply not caring. This goes back 50 yr with this team and other then Messier and Graves name a guy that signed or was traded for and excelled here?

The team has for yrs become whinning lil B$tches with the Refs and not policed themselves. The team 2 yrs ago was the first and will be the last not to be pushed around since the early 90's. And can't argue with the success they had..

Yes Chicago won the cup and barely fought. Boston should have won the cup and fought a ton so whats the point?

Captain Chris was crushed in Calgary and no one did a thing
McD two times took shots to the head and not a thing was done
Staal was almost killed by his own brother nothing was done
Hank has been run into dozens of times and nada
Last night was a great example not a single guy stepped up and did a thing.. Why cause the Rangers are small, finesse and completely not a tough team..
Bickel sure as hell is as good as Faulk and can at least be a guy who would stand up for his team..
Fighting is part of the game and we failed to address it ..
Flyers
Bruins
Columbus
Islanders
Pens
Buffalo
all in the conference and all much tougher

Yes skill wins and we dont have enough skill not to be tough


that is sad but so true..... good teams have a good balance of skill and grit.. Rangers dont have much of neither.. and for some reason the Rangers have signed big guys that dont play close to their size would indicate... its sad and very frusterating why a player that is 6'4 like Pyatt does not play with an edge on a consistent basis.... where is this Pyatt??? i dont know if it is a good thing or a bad thing that the Rangers best hitter is not even 6'.... Pyatt has not been this physical at all as a Ranger...

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Old
10-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Girardi & Del Zotto standing there like fans. Still embarrassing, three years later.
Dubinsky at least was trying to do something.... any chance a Del Zotto for Dubinsky trade can happen. i would have dealt Del Zotto in the Nash trade instead of Dubinsky....

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10-17-2013, 11:57 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Listen guys i know most of you hate me and thats cool we all have an opinion and mine is different then most but here it is..


The Rangers are breed losers .. i know we all love this team but once a guy becomes a Ranger he becomes a fat cat content on making his millions and simply not caring. This goes back 50 yr with this team and other then Messier and Graves name a guy that signed or was traded for and excelled here?

The team has for yrs become whinning lil B$tches with the Refs and not policed themselves. The team 2 yrs ago was the first and will be the last not to be pushed around since the early 90's. And can't argue with the success they had..

Yes Chicago won the cup and barely fought. Boston should have won the cup and fought a ton so whats the point?

Captain Chris was crushed in Calgary and no one did a thing
McD two times took shots to the head and not a thing was done
Staal was almost killed by his own brother nothing was done
Hank has been run into dozens of times and nada
Last night was a great example not a single guy stepped up and did a thing.. Why cause the Rangers are small, finesse and completely not a tough team..
Bickel sure as hell is as good as Faulk and can at least be a guy who would stand up for his team..
Fighting is part of the game and we failed to address it ..
Flyers
Bruins
Columbus
Islanders
Pens
Buffalo
all in the conference and all much tougher

Yes skill wins and we dont have enough skill not to be tough
I know exactly what you're saying here and I for one completely agree on almost every level. It's not about just being a team of goons with no skill or employing one guy who can fight, it's about stepping up when challenged or when liberties are taken. It's a culture here and it's not one to be proud of!

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Old
10-17-2013, 12:02 PM
  #373
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I agree this team needs to add a bit of an edge to their game. Dorsett did a good job last night against Washington but it was evident last night that players like Brouwer, Laich, Wilson, Ovechkin could easily effect a longer series by wearing down opponents.

That's the key to any team. How do you wear down opponents over a series. Detroit does it by making the other team chase when they have the puck. Chicago does it by utilizing their skill and speed to beat teams to the pucks and make them play faster than they want to. Boston grinds teams down using their size along the boards.

What do the Rangers do? I would say that with the players they have, it would be easier to add a couple of pieces to become a Bruins-like team than try to become the Hawks or Wings

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Old
10-17-2013, 12:03 PM
  #374
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That's why I miss Dubinsky. Dude didn't take crap from anyone. Even after the fight/scrum was over, he was still yelling over to the guy on the bench or from the penalty box.

This team has none of that.

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10-17-2013, 12:05 PM
  #375
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That's why I miss Dubinsky. Dude didn't take crap from anyone. Even after the fight/scrum was over, he was still yelling over to the guy on the bench or from the penalty box.

This team has none of that.
He certainly could take a beating.

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