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The Cam Ward RAGE POST. Rage Against the Machine

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Old
10-16-2013, 02:07 PM
  #76
Lazyking
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Originally Posted by golfpro827 View Post
Expecting him to play up to his contact should be on JR and others involved in doing it.

If I'm an NHL player and have never scored 20 goals and then someone pays me $8 million a season, that's not my fault (perhaps the DiPeietro contract would be a better analogy). And fans shouldn't be mad at me when I don't out perform myself based on a contract.

Bottom line to me is we should only compare Ward to what we know he can do. He's never been one of the Mike Smith types where goes 10 periods without a goal and then gives up 2 per period for 10 periods. He's always been good enough to steal a few games but overall, he's just a solid guy. Honestly the only time I've ever seen him insanely hot was the 2006 run.

Ward's contract is overpaid. I don't think anyone can argue that. But to simply say "he's making $X, he has to be better" to me isn't right. If anything the thread should be "JR why did you give Ward $X?"

Now a situation like Samsonov a few years ago or LaRose recently who earned their contracts based on great seasons and then stunk, yes, that's their fault. But Ward never at any point, except the 2006 playoffs, earned that contract. To me, he is a $3.5 million a year guy. But it's not his fault he was given what he was.
You could say it was for the cup run but this contract was a few years after that. I just think JR felt he needed to overpay Cam because he's not confident that Cam would stay at a lesser price.. Who knows maybe if he offered Cam $4.5 mil a year another team would have offered $5 mil.

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10-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
You could say it was for the cup run but this contract was a few years after that. I just think JR felt he needed to overpay Cam because he's not confident that Cam would stay at a lesser price.. Who knows maybe if he offered Cam $4.5 mil a year another team would have offered $5 mil.
Yeah, he signed that contract in the wake of the 2009 playoff run when he was as good as he has ever been. I'm not sure how that playoffs wouldn't have been considered "insanely hot".

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10-16-2013, 03:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
On the other hand, is there an example of a good goalie moving from a 'bad team' to a 'good team', and having their stats get better overnight? Off the top of my head, the only example I can think of is Brian Elliot to the Blues...and even that proved to be a prolonged hot streak.

I say this because the other wildly popular conjecture also has very few examples: 'if he were on a better team, he would get more points'. The only example of that I can think of is James Neal (side note: anyone remember the Pens fans who were convinced that Sutter would completely replace Staal's production?).

Not that either of these are wrong...just that, for such popular opinions, they actually have relatively few real world examples.
Emery going to Chicago is the extreme example.

Bobrovsky to Columbus?

Luongo was a great example, as someone mentioned.

Mike Smith to Phoenix.

Ed Belfour is a good older example. The stat change from Blackhawks to Stars was pretty significant. And then as the Stars deteriorated, he switched to a good Leafs team, and his stats again bumped back up into the upper echelon.

Even Patrick Roy. There is a very noticeable difference statistically from playing with a pretty good Montreal team to one of the 'super teams' in Colorado.

I agree though, that there aren't a ton of examples. But I think that may have more to do with the good NHL teams usually not having much if any goalie turnover, and the fact once a team gets the idea that the goalie is good, they try to keep them.

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10-16-2013, 05:07 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Yeah, he signed that contract in the wake of the 2009 playoff run when he was as good as he has ever been. I'm not sure how that playoffs wouldn't have been considered "insanely hot".
Yeah, IIRC, going into the Pittsburgh series (where he injured his back...or rather Jordan injured his back), his SV% was high .920 or low .930s.

Both the Jersey series and the Boston one (though Jersey moreso) were goaltending duels that Ward won.

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10-16-2013, 05:19 PM
  #80
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So, today my rage is not so much with Cam Ward, but with JR for not picking up Biron off waivers since Khudobin is going to IR.

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10-16-2013, 05:23 PM
  #81
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IR only means he's out at least a week. Khudobin had to go on IR with Komisarek, Westgarth and Lindholm scratched and Peters recalled.

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10-16-2013, 07:12 PM
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Good point.

But if he was going to be out any more than a month, maybe 6 weeks on the outside, then they should have gone for Biron. We can't withstand Peters for long.

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10-16-2013, 07:25 PM
  #83
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But what happens when Khudobin comes back? No one wants Biron. Are they really going to pay him 1.3M to play for Charlotte when they're already paying Justin Peters 600k to do the same? Seems like a waste of money to me.

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10-16-2013, 07:35 PM
  #84
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Unless Khudobin is out two months, Peters won't play much anyway except some back to backs.

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10-17-2013, 07:25 AM
  #85
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Next post: this team wastes too much money on marginal players!!!!1!!

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10-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
Unless Khudobin is out two months, Peters won't play much anyway except some back to backs.
Even on back to backs, I don't think Peters will play unless Cam can't stand up straight during the warmup. And even then...

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10-17-2013, 12:18 PM
  #87
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Next post: this team wastes too much money on marginal players!!!!1!!
Drayson Bowman and Kevin Westgarth one-way contracts.

Rabble. Rabblerabblerabblerabble

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10-17-2013, 01:45 PM
  #88
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It amazes me that people say Cam Ward sucks. "Have you ever seen peters play?" is the only logical response.

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10-17-2013, 02:04 PM
  #89
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Yea, we have. What's up for debate is if he plays $6,062,500 worse.

For comparison - list of good goalies making less than $6m:

Tuuka Rask
Cary Price
MA Fluery
Jimmy Howard
Henrik Lundqvist
Bobrobsky
Schneider
Niemi

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10-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Zombie Mike Murphy View Post
Yea, we have. What's up for debate is if he plays $6,062,500 worse.

For comparison - list of good goalies making less than $6m:

Tuuka Rask
Cary Price
MA Fluery
Jimmy Howard
Henrik Lundqvist
Bobrobsky
Schneider
Niemi
You're really going to mention Fluery a guy who is a mental midget in the playoffs? Or Cory Schneider that couldn't outplay Bobby Lu?

None of those guys would carry us to the playoffs, and some of them I wouldn't take over Cam in a playoff situation.

Cam is overpaid but that's not his fault.

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10-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
You're really going to mention Fluery a guy who is a mental midget in the playoffs? Or Cory Schneider that couldn't outplay Bobby Lu?

None of those guys would carry us to the playoffs, and some of them I wouldn't take over Cam in a playoff situation.

Cam is overpaid but that's not his fault.
I'm hoping you mean none of Fleury/Schneider, because a certain Mr. Lundqvist appears on that list.

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10-17-2013, 02:19 PM
  #92
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I'm hoping you mean none of Fleury/Schneider, because a certain Mr. Lundqvist appears on that list.
Of course he only appears on that list because he's in the final year of a front loaded contract and will be making north of $8 mil next year.

Rask and Price each have cap hits over $6 mil as well.

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10-17-2013, 02:23 PM
  #93
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Of course he only appears on that list because he's in the final year of a front loaded contract and will be making north of $8 mil next year.

Rask and Price each have cap hits over $6 mil as well.
Oh, I know. But the way he said it made it seems as though Lundqvist wasn't good enough to carry the Canes into the playoffs.

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10-17-2013, 02:24 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Mike Murphy View Post
Yea, we have. What's up for debate is if he plays $6,062,500 worse.

For comparison - list of good goalies making less than $6m:

Tuuka Rask
Cary Price
MA Fluery
Jimmy Howard
Henrik Lundqvist
Bobrobsky
Schneider
Niemi
Rask is making 7.5M for the next four years and his cap hit is 7M

Price is making 7.5M when you factor in his bonus this year. His cap hit is 6.5M

Fleury signed his two years before Ward, and was probably coming off what may have been his ELC.

Howard more than doubled his second contract.

Lundqvist's deal was front loaded, but his cap hit is still higher.

Bobrovsky has been good for like half a season. So good the Flyers got rid of him. The Flyers. Come see me when his deal is up after next year if he's still playing like this.

Schneider's deal is also up after next year, and he'll be due a hefty raise. He's making what he is because the Canucks simply couldn't afford to pay him more.

When Niemi signed his deal he had about a season and a half of experience. His deal is also up after next.



None of these goalies are valid comparisons. Ward signed his deal coming off 6 playoff series wins in five years, a cup and a Conn Smythe. And it was back loaded. At the time, it made complete sense.

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10-17-2013, 02:41 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by PublicEnemy View Post
I'm hoping you mean none of Fleury/Schneider, because a certain Mr. Lundqvist appears on that list.
I don't mean it as a slight but the King wouldn't be able to carry this team to the playoffs... Its a bubble team even with GREAT goaltending..

A great chef can't make chicken salad out of chicken **** and all that.

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10-17-2013, 02:49 PM
  #96
tarheelhockey
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Here's a list of goalies who have a worse sv% than Ward this season:

Pekka Rinne $7M
Henrik Lundqvist $6.875M
Jonathan Quick $5.8M
Mike Smith $5.66M
Roberto Luongo $5.333M
Cory Schneider $4M

Not to mention Schneider, Holtby and Pavelec who are going to get paid when they finally get beyond RFA-negotiated deals.

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10-17-2013, 02:51 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by golfpro827 View Post
It amazes me that people say Cam Ward sucks. "Have you ever seen peters play?" is the only logical response.
Yeah, but that's kind of like saying "I'm not fat, because I hang around with people much fatter than me".

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10-17-2013, 03:01 PM
  #98
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Ward is paid like an all-star when really he's an average to above-average starter.

The most surprising thing about his career is how it survived two years of being AWFUL. I mean a .897 save percentage and a .904 save percentage in the years following the Stanley Cup. Young Cam Ward makes Peters look like Hasek. When your starter is playing 60 games with those kind of numbers, you're missing the playoffs purely due to goaltending. Lavi's tenure with the Canes ended because Cam Ward was basically the same story as Steve Mason (only plus a Conn Smythe).

However, when healthy over his last 4 years, Wardo's been >.915, and that's about average. And he's definitely passed the eye test so far this season. I'm willing to forget the younger version and the injured lockout year version. Wardo's good, he's just overpaid.

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10-17-2013, 03:04 PM
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I also like to think of Wardo as a contrast to Fleury, with some similarities. They're both overpaid and overhyped historically. But Fleury is a stellar athlete who gives up silly goals, while Wardo is a positionally sound goalie who often is exposed on breakaways and in the shootout.

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10-17-2013, 03:09 PM
  #100
La Huracanista
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Drayson Bowman and Kevin Westgarth one-way contracts.

Rabble. Rabblerabblerabblerabble
I like Bowman though. And that's like league minimum.

Chad LaRose becoming a millionaire was much stupider, imho. And I'm not sure how Harrison ended up with a 3 year deal that rounds up to $2 million...

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