HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Revisiting the Halak trade.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-11-2013, 07:58 AM
  #76
MattyMo35
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 8,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceNine View Post
You don't compare guys like that or Lundy for example to Crawford. He's not at that level. So how does he get paid? Bring a Cup to Chicago.
I'm a bit confused with what you're trying to say. Are you saying that Lundqvist doesn't deserve to get paid like Crawford because the team in front of Crawford won the Cup? If so, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

MattyMo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 09:54 AM
  #77
Daley Tarasenkshow
#hateonbackes
 
Daley Tarasenkshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedinBlueSince1972 View Post
Have you seen how many of their own free agents the Blues have besides Halak and Elliott? : Steen, Sobotka, Berglund, Roy, Morrow, Reaves, Schwartz and Cracknell?

I'll rephrase : Allen will be here next season. One of Halak and Elliott won't for sure and if Halak has a monster year and stays healthy I'm thinking he will cash in on a big pay day multi year contract that will be too rich for the Blues to swallow.
Based on Halak's current salary, and the potential of dumping Elliots, I'd be shocked if Halak becomes too expensive.

Daley Tarasenkshow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 11:21 AM
  #78
bluesman11
Robert Johnson
 
bluesman11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 778
vCash: 500
IF Halak continues to play like he has, which has only been three games.

With Morrow and Roy being on one year deals, and the plan is to develop Rattie and Jaskin even with Steen and Berglund's new deals I can see a few scenarios that keep Halak here with a new multi-year deal.

bluesman11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 11:46 AM
  #79
DeuceNine
Wall of Shame
 
DeuceNine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stymieville
Country: United States
Posts: 408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I'm a bit confused with what you're trying to say. Are you saying that Lundqvist doesn't deserve to get paid like Crawford because the team in front of Crawford won the Cup? If so, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
No, I was rolling in Lundqvist with those other goalies that DO deserve to get paid regardless of having a Cup. Since Crawford's not in that camp -- more of an Emery/Elliott/Niemi etc grade -- the only way he's pulling those figures is to win a championship.

I've said the same thing three different ways, not sure how else to be clearer.

DeuceNine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #80
TheOrganist
Don't Call Him Alex
 
TheOrganist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,883
vCash: 500
Obviously as fluid as a situation can get, but I don't envision Halak coming back next year. He either has a poor year or gets hurt and the Blues turn the page or he plays great and the leads the Blues to big things and prices himself out. This is the payoff for drafting well. You replace a high priced player entering free agency with the heir apparent who undoubtedly has NHL chops at 1/6th the price tag.

TheOrganist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 01:37 PM
  #81
BlueDream
Registered User
 
BlueDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,593
vCash: 500
I'm interested to learn how much Halak WANTS to come back, which we may not find out for a while. The past 3 years, I haven't exactly gotten the sense he's fit in and had a great time here. Obviously success this season could change everything, but we'll see. But I don't expect him to take any discount or anything... He definitely could price himself out of our range.

BlueDream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 01:45 PM
  #82
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,967
vCash: 133
If Halak is the starting goalie, and performs at a top 10 in the league level over the course of the season, and plays at a high level in the post-season....why would the Blues just let him walk? Is it really that long ago for some of you that you forgot the annual pain of having mediocrity in goal like too much ballast?

He'd be due for a raise, but he'd have earned it. I think assuming he would get a Crawford type deal is an error.

Anyway, I think he WILL be back and that he'll end up signing a 4-year extension or something like that with a more modest raise, like an AAV or 1 to 1.5 million more than he makes now. (with Allen as the back-up) next season.

2 Minute Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 02:15 PM
  #83
intangible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 866
vCash: 500
In a year, other goalies on the market (unless they're resigned) include Lundqvist, Miller, and Hiller. Halak, in my mind, hasn't been a game-stealing goaltender since his playoff run with Montreal. Not that he's been a terrible goalie, but he hasn't been great.

But, that said, why would we give a 28 year old Halak a, say, $5m deal over 5 years (as he will no doubt want a long-term contract) when we guesstimate Allen to be ready in the next 1-3 years? Doesn't make sense for us. That's why I'd rather sign a "bridge goalie," if you will -- someone like Hiller or even Miller -- to bide time while we make sure Allen has all the tools to become a starter.

Or, you know, I'd hand Lundy $8m right now to become the Blues goalie, but I don't think he wants to come here, lol.

intangible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 02:27 PM
  #84
DeuceNine
Wall of Shame
 
DeuceNine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stymieville
Country: United States
Posts: 408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by intangible View Post
In a year, other goalies on the market (unless they're resigned) include Lundqvist, Miller, and Hiller. Halak, in my mind, hasn't been a game-stealing goaltender since his playoff run with Montreal. Not that he's been a terrible goalie, but he hasn't been great.

But, that said, why would we give a 28 year old Halak a, say, $5m deal over 5 years (as he will no doubt want a long-term contract) when we guesstimate Allen to be ready in the next 1-3 years? Doesn't make sense for us. That's why I'd rather sign a "bridge goalie," if you will -- someone like Hiller or even Miller -- to bide time while we make sure Allen has all the tools to become a starter.

Or, you know, I'd hand Lundy $8m right now to become the Blues goalie, but I don't think he wants to come here, lol.
Lundy would be the preferred option, but Halak and Lundy both have the same number of Cups so I'm not sure it's necessary to unload that kind of cash.

I also wouldn't bet the farm that Allen is anything more than a tradeable asset, same as Bishop. I would, if Halak wants stupid money, look for a younger goalie with an NHL resume. Hiller would be OK but not sure -- as a starter -- if he's got the fortitude. Miller is a good option but if he's the same price as Halak, don't bother.

Lots of moving parts. I would say sign Halak for 5.5 or less. Anything more is justification to go shopping.

DeuceNine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 02:36 PM
  #85
bluesman11
Robert Johnson
 
bluesman11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by intangible View Post
In a year, other goalies on the market (unless they're resigned) include Lundqvist, Miller, and Hiller. Halak, in my mind, hasn't been a game-stealing goaltender since his playoff run with Montreal. Not that he's been a terrible goalie, but he hasn't been great.

But, that said, why would we give a 28 year old Halak a, say, $5m deal over 5 years (as he will no doubt want a long-term contract) when we guesstimate Allen to be ready in the next 1-3 years? Doesn't make sense for us. That's why I'd rather sign a "bridge goalie," if you will -- someone like Hiller or even Miller -- to bide time while we make sure Allen has all the tools to become a starter.

Or, you know, I'd hand Lundy $8m right now to become the Blues goalie, but I don't think he wants to come here, lol.
He has gotten the message about his fitness and it's not just going to handed to him because he thinks he should be the guy, he has to work hard to be the guy. If Halak performs at a level high enough to earn that deal I think The Blues sign him in a heartbeat. If he continues to perform at a high level come the second half of the season I could see them trying to sign him before the end of the year. The only thing that I would prefer to see, is it be a four year deal, that would make it easier to manage if Allen would show he can be the guy in the future, but an extra year really doesn't make it a deal breaker.

bluesman11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 02:53 PM
  #86
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
Halak's agent might want a giant raise for him, but that guy is about as humble as it gets. I feel like if Armstrong says "I'm only paying for what you've earned" he just says ok and tries to earn more.

All these hypothetical's that have him leaving or earning a major contract comparable to the elite tier paygrade of goalies leave out the possibility of him getting injured this year which is probably much higher than a Cup. They leave out Elliott's upcoming performances in net which could really paint a clear picture or make the Blues' choices much harder.

We have a lot of time before the marketplace for a goalie appears towards the trade deadline to see what kind of return we can get on 1 of the 3 goalies who will have 1-way deals next season. If that return is something more than futures with cap space it could change the budget we have for the 8 or so UFA/RFAs we need to retain or release. Even outside of dealing an extra goalie, we could change the roster in a big way by the end of the season making Halak's price tag and our budget for him no longer an issue.

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 03:03 PM
  #87
BlueDream
Registered User
 
BlueDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
Halak's agent might want a giant raise for him, but that guy is about as humble as it gets. I feel like if Armstrong says "I'm only paying for what you've earned" he just says ok and tries to earn more.

All these hypothetical's that have him leaving or earning a major contract comparable to the elite tier paygrade of goalies leave out the possibility of him getting injured this year which is probably much higher than a Cup. They leave out Elliott's upcoming performances in net which could really paint a clear picture or make the Blues' choices much harder.

We have a lot of time before the marketplace for a goalie appears towards the trade deadline to see what kind of return we can get on 1 of the 3 goalies who will have 1-way deals next season. If that return is something more than futures with cap space it could change the budget we have for the 8 or so UFA/RFAs we need to retain or release. Even outside of dealing an extra goalie, we could change the roster in a big way by the end of the season making Halak's price tag and our budget for him no longer an issue.
You can be a quiet guy and still want to ask for a certain amount of money, we really have no idea how humble Halak will be when it comes to that.

Obviously this is a completely different situation, but Alex Pietrangelo is humble. When a player has a goal in mind, they don't just say "Oh ok well just pay me whatever you want and I'll accept that."

BlueDream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2013, 03:12 PM
  #88
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
You can be a quiet guy and still want to ask for a certain amount of money, we really have no idea how humble Halak will be when it comes to that.

Obviously this is a completely different situation, but Alex Pietrangelo is humble. When a player has a goal in mind, they don't just say "Oh ok well just pay me whatever you want and I'll accept that."
I'm talking about his personal success and his attitude towards winning, he never seems satisfied at just doing his job when he's supposed to. He seems to just keep looking forward to bigger games and being prepared. That's pretty much how Armstrong has been building his payroll. Win some bigger games and you guys get bigger deals, until then you get paid for the way you've already played.

I'm not saying if he wins a Cup he'll just walk away from the idea of getting Crawford's deal to be meek, but I do think he'll be a lot less likely to hold out for money or walk away from the team that just helped him earn it to prove he could get paid a little more somewhere else where he has to start over.

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2013, 12:52 AM
  #89
DeuceNine
Wall of Shame
 
DeuceNine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stymieville
Country: United States
Posts: 408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
I'm talking about his personal success and his attitude towards winning, he never seems satisfied at just doing his job when he's supposed to. He seems to just keep looking forward to bigger games and being prepared. That's pretty much how Armstrong has been building his payroll. Win some bigger games and you guys get bigger deals, until then you get paid for the way you've already played.

I'm not saying if he wins a Cup he'll just walk away from the idea of getting Crawford's deal to be meek, but I do think he'll be a lot less likely to hold out for money or walk away from the team that just helped him earn it to prove he could get paid a little more somewhere else where he has to start over.
Like I said, if he wins a Cup he'll getz pizzaid.

Now, we could pull a Chicago and drop a now-expensive goalie if we feel anyone could do the job. Not sure, frankly, why Chicago felt differently after last season. With that team, they could have let Crawford walk and keep Emery for probably less than half over a shorter term -- with a chance at similar success.

If we're that good we can win with a cheaper Elliott/Allen rather than an expensive Halak that some team will turn into the next Khabibulin and overpay due to one postseason.

DeuceNine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2013, 08:29 PM
  #90
Keep Your Head Up
Registered User
 
Keep Your Head Up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Québec city
Country: Canada
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
It's a good trade for both teams, but I give the edge to St. Louis since they got a good number one NHL goalie, and there's not a lot of them out there. About half of the league's teams are looking for one.

As for Eller, he's in a pivotal season: he's finally coming into his own and given opportunities this year, so we'll see, maybe his production will explode. who knows? but more than likely he will plateau (this is only my opinion) at 50 pts a year and become an okay, but not great 2nd centerman for the habs in a few years.

So in short: a good number one tender for a passable 2nd C? I do that deal any day of the week.

Keep Your Head Up is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 12:38 AM
  #91
Genesis76
Registered User
 
Genesis76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Country: Greece
Posts: 563
vCash: 50
I miss Halak, when you guys say that his not a game changer... really? look at his SO ratio per game

Halak is probably the best thing that happened to St-Louis since al macinnis

St-Louis just needs to have trust in him. In 2010 when it was clear that he was the no1 he became a beast for us.

Not a game changer? Just watch


53 saves that night

Theres alot of question marks with Eller so I'd say St-louis totally Won the deal.

Genesis76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 06:26 PM
  #92
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
I miss Halak, when you guys say that his not a game changer... really? look at his SO ratio per game

Halak is probably the best thing that happened to St-Louis since al macinnis

St-Louis just needs to have trust in him. In 2010 when it was clear that he was the no1 he became a beast for us.

Not a game changer? Just watch


53 saves that night

Theres alot of question marks with Eller so I'd say St-louis totally Won the deal.
Well when we trust him to stay healthy he burns us every time...

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 06:44 PM
  #93
halaktarasenkofan
Registered User
 
halaktarasenkofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
Well when we trust him to stay healthy he burns us every time...
i know but he can't control tha.

halaktarasenkofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 07:04 PM
  #94
Alklha
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by halaktarasenkofan View Post
i know but he can't control tha.
To a degree he can. Some injuries are avoidable and some aren't.

When Jax ran into him against the Sharks, that was unavoidable. His second groin strain last season was almost certainly avoidable but he rushed back from the first. Better conditioning might also have prevented the initial groin strain as well.

Alklha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 07:09 PM
  #95
halaktarasenkofan
Registered User
 
halaktarasenkofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
To a degree he can. Some injuries are avoidable and some aren't.

When Jax ran into him against the Sharks, that was unavoidable. His second groin strain last season was almost certainly avoidable but he rushed back from the first. Better conditioning might also have prevented the initial groin strain as well.
oh . I can see that now.


Last edited by halaktarasenkofan: 10-18-2013 at 07:33 PM.
halaktarasenkofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2013, 07:30 PM
  #96
Alklha
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,381
vCash: 500
I'm not sure why, it is a fact that better conditioning reduces the risks of strains. He freely admits that he is in far better condition this year than last. I'm not saying that he certainly doesn't get the injury if he is better conditioned, but it is possible.

He doesn't have chronic issues so if he is committed to this new training plan I'm certainly confident that he won't have as many injury issues going forward. The "contract year" argument will longer in the back of my mind though.

Alklha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.